Why is it only Nintendo's new IPs that "don't count"?

themistermanguy

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It's a game of back and forth you hear often on Video Game fourms.

* Person says Nintendo doesn't make New IPs, all they do is rehash the same characters, over and over
* Nintendo fan lists New IPs that were developed or published by Nintendo
* Person says all those games don't count for reasons x, y, and z

The question as to whether Nintendo introduces New IPs each generation like its contemporaries do or not has sort of been an ongoing debate in the gaming community, one that doesn't look like is ending anytime soon. Nintendo's known for its roster of highly recognizable, and merchandisable mascot characters, and that's both a blessing and a curse. Having arguably the biggest icons in the Video Game industry gives you a leg up for when third party developers aren't always there to help out. But that also means that those characters tend to overshadow the rest of your catelog, and that can pose a problem.

This is where the "Nintendo has no New IPs" stigma sort of stems from. Because Nintendo hasn't introduced a new Mascot that has reached the popularity status of Mario, Pokemon, or Link, outside of arguably Splatoon's Inklings, that obviously means there's no New IP at all. Only, that isn't the case. Any hardcore Nintendo fan such as myself will tell you that Nintendo actually does publish and develop numerous New IP each console, nearly as many as Sony and Microsoft.

On the Nintendo Switch alone, Nintendo has published

1-2 Switch
ARMS
Nintendo Labo
Snipperclips
Astral Chain
The Stretchers
Ring-Fit Adventure
Sushi Striker
Good Job!

And the console's only 3 years old.

The problem is that when people list such games, they're automatically brushed off as "doesn't count because..." and proceeds to list off reasons why they aren't considered, such as they're not for the "core" gaming audience. They're not as high budget as the biggest Nintendo games. They weren't developed completely in-house. They didn't sell well. They're too niche. or They're not good games.

But if we apply all of these criteria's to Nintendo's contemporaries such as Sony, in that case, Sony is arguably just as bad as Nintendo supposedly is. Only Horizon, and Dreams were both high budget, critical and commercial successes for them this gen in terms of new IP. The other ones Sony introduced this gen were either commercial failures, got mixed reception, much lower in budget and scope relative to other PS4 exclusives, or were made by non-Sony owned Studios, There's still Ghosts of Tsushima coming, but even then, it's not out yet, and only brings it up to 3 games. And Microsoft might as well not even be competition if we apply any of these rules to them.

Obviously, I'm exaggerating here, both Sony and Microsoft have introduced plenty of New IP if you remove those arbitrary restrictions. My question is. Why is it only Nintendo who has to be judged by these pointless standards, when they seemingly don't apply to the other two?
 

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I got a better question: Why does it matter?
Exactly.

It's a game of back and forth you hear often on Video Game fourms.

* Person says Nintendo doesn't make New IPs, all they do is rehash the same characters, over and over
* Nintendo fan lists New IPs that were developed or published by Nintendo
* Person says all those games don't count for reasons x, y, and z
Because bitches be bitches, no matter if it's Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Sega, The PC crowd, etc. Fanboys and fangirls will act like bitches. I see no point in constantly arguing with them or giving them the time of the day. If you enjoy all things Nintendo, then their dumb ass opinions should not matter. I know you've done topics like this before on the old site, but come up with some new material.
 
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Ezekiel

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All of the big three should be scrutinized for this. Sony wouldn't have bored me so much this generation if they had made funner original IPs and Nintendo doesn't make original IPs unless they're small and low budget. Astral Chain was more Platinum Games doing what they do. NES and SNES games were comparatively cheap to make, which is why Nintendo established itself with those and has mostly stuck with them for their bigger productions ever since. Still, I'd rather play Nintendo's twenty to thirty-five year old IPs than Sony's fake games.
 

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I mean, I can totally see the arguments for 1-2 Switch and Nintendo Labo not being new IPs.

1-2 Switch is literally a tech demo to show off their new controllers (can you even buy 1-2 Switch separately, or is it just bundled with the switch?), and Labo is more of a "nintendo product" than it is an IP.

Also does it count as a new IP if Nintendo published it but doesn't actually own it? Like does NIntendo own the rights to Astral Chain or Stretchers? I have no idea, but if it's just the publisher and the developers could take those game cross platform if they wanted, then yeah, it's not a new Nintendo IP.

But really, does it actually matter?

Would Breath of the Wild have been better if it was a new IP rather than a new Zelda game? New IP doesn't automatically make a good game, and Nintendo consistently makes good games, regardless of what the IP is.
 
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BrawlMan

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Still, I'd rather play Nintendo's twenty to thirty-five year old IPs than Sony's fake games.
I know you don't like most of Sony's recent output, but they ain't fake games. Unless we're talking The Order: 1886 or anything by David Cage/Quantic Dream. I'd sooner take most of Sony's or Nintendo's recent outputs over another Gears or Halo.
 
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BrawlMan

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1-2 Switch is literally a tech demo to show off their new controllers (can you even buy 1-2 Switch separately, or is it just bundled with the switch?)
Yes you can.

New IP doesn't automatically make a good game, and Nintendo consistently makes good games, regardless of what the IP is.
I mostly agree with that, but they made a few slip ups.
 

themistermanguy

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1-2 Switch is literally a tech demo to show off their new controllers (can you even buy 1-2 Switch separately, or is it just bundled with the switch?), and Labo is more of a "nintendo product" than it is an IP.
I can also understand the argument for 1-2 Switch as well. It's more of a one-off than it is a distinct IP with characters and a theme. But Nintendo Labo I think would certainly count. There's actual settings, characters, and themes within it that make it more than a simple tech demo like 1-2 Switch is.

Also does it count as a new IP if Nintendo published it but doesn't actually own it? Like does NIntendo own the rights to Astral Chain or Stretchers? I have no idea, but if it's just the publisher and the developers could take those game cross platform if they wanted, then yeah, it's not a new Nintendo IP.
Nintendo not only owns both those IP, but they also helped developed them too. All Nintendo games are produced by the Entertainment Planning & Development Division (EPD), they oversaw the development of both. The Stretchers was even co-developed by Nintendo Software Technology in Redmond.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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It's a game of back and forth you hear often on Video Game fourms.

* Person says Nintendo doesn't make New IPs, all they do is rehash the same characters, over and over
* Nintendo fan lists New IPs that were developed or published by Nintendo
* Person says all those games don't count for reasons x, y, and z

The question as to whether Nintendo introduces New IPs each generation like its contemporaries do or not has sort of been an ongoing debate in the gaming community, one that doesn't look like is ending anytime soon. Nintendo's known for its roster of highly recognizable, and merchandisable mascot characters, and that's both a blessing and a curse. Having arguably the biggest icons in the Video Game industry gives you a leg up for when third party developers aren't always there to help out. But that also means that those characters tend to overshadow the rest of your catelog, and that can pose a problem.

This is where the "Nintendo has no New IPs" stigma sort of stems from. Because Nintendo hasn't introduced a new Mascot that has reached the popularity status of Mario, Pokemon, or Link, outside of arguably Splatoon's Inklings, that obviously means there's no New IP at all. Only, that isn't the case. Any hardcore Nintendo fan such as myself will tell you that Nintendo actually does publish and develop numerous New IP each console, nearly as many as Sony and Microsoft.

On the Nintendo Switch alone, Nintendo has published

1-2 Switch
ARMS
Nintendo Labo
Snipperclips
Astral Chain
The Stretchers
Ring-Fit Adventure
Sushi Striker
Good Job!

And the console's only 3 years old.

The problem is that when people list such games, they're automatically brushed off as "doesn't count because..." and proceeds to list off reasons why they aren't considered, such as they're not for the "core" gaming audience. They're not as high budget as the biggest Nintendo games. They weren't developed completely in-house. They didn't sell well. They're too niche. or They're not good games.

But if we apply all of these criteria's to Nintendo's contemporaries such as Sony, in that case, Sony is arguably just as bad as Nintendo supposedly is. Only Horizon, and Dreams were both high budget, critical and commercial successes for them this gen in terms of new IP. The other ones Sony introduced this gen were either commercial failures, got mixed reception, much lower in budget and scope relative to other PS4 exclusives, or were made by non-Sony owned Studios, There's still Ghosts of Tsushima coming, but even then, it's not out yet, and only brings it up to 3 games. And Microsoft might as well not even be competition if we apply any of these rules to them.

Obviously, I'm exaggerating here, both Sony and Microsoft have introduced plenty of New IP if you remove those arbitrary restrictions. My question is. Why is it only Nintendo who has to be judged by these pointless standards, when they seemingly don't apply to the other two?
Horizon was 2017, and Dreams was just released this year. For new IP in the first three years off the top of my head:

-Tearaway: Unfolded
-Until Dawn
-Bloodborne (Sony funded, still exclusive)
-The Last Guardian

I’m guessing the reason Nintendo’s games aren’t considered is mostly because they’re relatively unheard of by comparison.
 

Dreiko

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I don't think they don't count, I just think most of them are shit so the point isn't that the system doesn't have exclusives, it's that it doesn't have enough GOOD exclusives.

No More Heroes, Xenoblade, Astral Chain, Bravely Default and Octopath Traveler are all excellent. It's just that all the rest of them are pretty terrible and not nearly worth getting a system over.

I legit got my 3DS when they released SMT4 on it. That's a game worth getting a system over. There's not been that many such games, sadly. Hell, I don't even like some of the highly praised IPs of nintendo. Hated Mario Galaxy for one, couldn't stand playing it for more than 30 minutes at a time before getting bored and I can do 12 hours straight in something like persona 5 so it isn't me lol.
 

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No More Heroes, Xenoblade, Astral Chain, Bravely Default and Octopath Traveler are all excellent. It's just that all the rest of them are pretty terrible and not nearly worth getting a system over.
That's what I mentioned earlier. I got the Switch mainly for it's 3rd party games. Though I don't consider most of their 1st party stuff terrible, but not interesting for me aside from 1 or 2 games. The same applies to Sony, except I found some of their first party stuff more worthwhile. I've done Mario too many times to count (though I've always been more of a Sonic & DK guy) and lost interests, never a Zelda fan (played a few and Hyrule Warriors), and stopped giving a rat's ass about Pokemon when I turned 13. ARMS looks interesting, but I'm afraid I won't hold interests long, and Splatoon is not my jam either. Ninjala looks interesting as it reminds me of Anarchy Reigns, but more kid friendly. But once again, that is a 3rd party title, yet it's obviously Splatoon inspired in terms of art direction. Another problem with 1st party Nintendo exclusives is that is rarely a price drop until 5-8 years after the fact. Their physical copy of games rarely go on sale, and don't reach to $19.99 until near a decade. They've been doing this since the GC and Wii era.

 

Dreiko

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That's what I mentioned earlier. I got the Switch mainly for it's 3rd party games. Though I don't consider most of their 1st party stuff terrible, but not interesting for me aside from 1 or 2 games. The same applies to Sony, except I found some of their first party stuff more worthwhile. I've done Mario too many times to count (though I've always been more of a Sonic & DK guy) and lost interests, never a Zelda fan (played a few and Hyrule Warriors), and stopped giving a rat's ass about Pokemon when I turned 13. ARMS looks interesting, but I'm afraid I won't hold interests long, and Splatoon is not my jam either. Ninjala looks interesting as it reminds me of Anarchy Reigns, but more kid friendly. But once again, that is a 3rd party title, yet it's obviously Splatoon inspired in terms of art direction. Another problem with 1st party Nintendo exclusives is that is rarely a price drop until 5-8 years after the fact. Their physical copy of games rarely go on sale, and don't reach to $19.99 until near a decade. They've been doing this since the GC and Wii era.

The newest Zelda is prolly the only thing that they could put up next to GoW4, all the other ones are kind of a joke to comapre.

And yeah it does often feel that they're aiming their games to be kid-friendly. I love pokemon still but I have a very on and off relationship with it. I've played it for thousands of hours over 25 years now but I do take very long breaks after each gen now. I will get em all eventually but I'm not doing the super hardcore competitive training and breeding stuff I did back in gen 4.


Reading this topic I get a feeling similar to reading a topic from a modern Sonic game fan being confused about why people don't care much about Sonic any more. It's really not much of a mystery and it sounds a little delusional lol.
 

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Reading this topic I get a feeling similar to reading a topic from a modern Sonic game fan being confused about why people don't care much about Sonic any more. It's really not much of a mystery and it sounds a little delusional lol.
Considering how well the live action Sonic movie (I hate it) did and Sonic Mania, people still care. Maybe not as much in the 90s, but there plenty of fans, old or new, that still want Sonic.
 

Hawki

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Considering how well the live action Sonic movie (I hate it) did and Sonic Mania, people still care. Maybe not as much in the 90s, but there plenty of fans, old or new, that still want Sonic.
Pretty much.

Is Sonic as big as he was in the 90s? No. But it's incorrect to say that people don't care, period. Any assertion of that statement would have to explain why the Sonic movie was so successful, why games are still being produced and consumed, why the Archie Sonic comic series went on so long that it holds a record for it, and why the IDW comics are so popular.
 
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Dreiko

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The people who went to see the movie are not just the same people who kept playing sonic videogames for all these years though. Not most of em anyhow. The movie did well because it was appealing to all the people who stopped playing sonic games too but who once played em back in the day. Also it got a lot of meme publicity which helped it since they redesigned sonic so people were willing to give it a chance as a gesture of support for their approach to fan criticism.

And while Mania was a fine game (cause it was made by fans and not sega) that doesn't undo all the terrible sonic games which people kept acting as though were good which was what I was referring to.


Same thing with the comics, I'm sure they're fine, still nothing to do with the quality of the games though. You can have a good comic based on a game series that's gone to shit lol.


But yeah, I do know people care, what I said is that I was confused as to why, due to all these reasons. I played sonic 1 and 2 back in the day too, it was my first game in fact. It's not like I'm a hater lol.
 

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Because adults have never even heard of those games. I can't imagine most people come home from their 12 hour shift and play Nintendo Labo.

Not that that's a criticism. Like I've said before, Nintendo fills an extremely important niche, introducing children to video games at a young age, before they move on to more mature, artistic titles, Like Shadow of the Colossus, or Bloodborne.