Why is it that RPGs get criticised for being derivative, but FPS games don't?
- Thread starter migo
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That's not a problem with the game if you choose to do that, anyone with brains just buys items in bulk and converts them to spells, which is particularly easy since you just take the SeeD exams and get money by walking around and completing quests.TOGSolid said:
You evidently phoned in your experience playing it, some of them are necessary for the plot to move forward in a game sense, and others are explained in game. You just weren't paying attention, and it's obvious you wouldn't enjoy something you weren't paying attention to.
FPS's are always considered derivative. You always hear of FPS's as "Just halo with *blank*"
They're just derivative gameplay wise, RPGs are derivative from a story standpoint because you can only tell "The RPG Story" so many ways before you're repeating yourself. MMOs are slightly different, but that's because they're more based on gameplay like an FPS, and hence are derivative gameplay wise (usually derivative of WoW)
They're just derivative gameplay wise, RPGs are derivative from a story standpoint because you can only tell "The RPG Story" so many ways before you're repeating yourself. MMOs are slightly different, but that's because they're more based on gameplay like an FPS, and hence are derivative gameplay wise (usually derivative of WoW)
To answer the OP's question: Because the media is retarded and automatically makes the assumption that video games=FPS because the same American developers that shit out FPS like they've caught Montezuma's revenge pay them to do so.
this is because RPGs you need to try your hardest making a story that can be greater than final fantays. Shooters are mindless with the same concept(1.shot gun/2. gun has bullets/ 3. kill people.)
Funny, I found that the more you pay attention to the plot of FF8, the more you realize how fucking bad it is. "Hey, you can just convert items!" So you're just trading one form of busy work for another. AWESOME.migo said:
Glad you agree that the writing is lazy bullshit. I mean, really, I point out some of the game's big flaws, and you say I'm wrong, and then same things I was just complaining about.
Is that seriously the best counter argument you have? Man, look at this fucking hipster.
It's not busy work, you do it quickly, and thanks to scaled levels there's no grinding either. It has the least amount of busy work of any RPG, but apparently only for smart players.TOGSolid said:
Glad you agree that the writing is lazy bullshit. I mean, really, I point out some of the game's big flaws, and you say I'm wrong, and then same things I was just complaining about.
Is that seriously the best counter argument you have? Man, look at this fucking hipster.[/quote]
The writing isn't lazy bullshit at all, I'm just not going into detail about it so as not to spoil it.
Honestly, I always thought it was the other way around. I've almost never seen as shooter that hasn't been criticized by at least one person here for being derivative, but I've never seen someone say that about an RPG.
Wait, RPGs getting called derivative more than FPSs? For years, the FPS genre was often called "Doom clones."
I think someone arguing that RPGs are all derivative doesn't quite get the meaning of the term, "Genre." I don't mind a genre evolving, but I think its wrong to call something that is very much an embodiment of a genre inherintly bad for being so.
I think someone arguing that RPGs are all derivative doesn't quite get the meaning of the term, "Genre." I don't mind a genre evolving, but I think its wrong to call something that is very much an embodiment of a genre inherintly bad for being so.
If I had to guess, it's because FPS games have evolved slightly, but the core gameplay remains the same pretty much across the board. RPGs on the other hand, have changed vastly in certain parts of the world, but not in others. Hence, when people play an RPG made in an older style it's criticised because it's being compared to games released around the same time that have changed.
I wasn't sure how to respond to two different nested quotes.zakski said:
Sorry if it looks misleading.
Actually... no. Hi, I hated FF8. In fact, I'd argue FF8 helped pull me back from what was until then a serious love of JRPGs and especially a love of Square's products. I hated it because I hated the characters. I hated Squall with a passion, I disliked what motivations the characters put forth, I hated their dynamics with one another, I hated the concert and I hated their various idiotic plans. The gameplay was annoying to me at best, because it often felt pointless, like my actions weren't doing or changing anything, at least not for the better. I despised the idiotic plot angles, like the freaking orphanage. I hated the run-around in the final boss area. I despised the Guide Dang It subquests. The only thing that made the game worth playing to me, at all, was the card game.migo said:
And it wasn't for lack of trying. I eagerly wanted the game to be fun. If it was like FF7 or any other previous Final Fantasy and fun, great. If it was new and innovative and fun, great. But for me, it never hit the 'and fun', regardless of whether what it was doing was new or old.
Now, let me make this perfectly clear for you; my complaints are valid, because they are MY complaints. Now, clearly, you liked FF8. And to that I say... awesome. Seriously, kudos to ya, glad the game works for you, and I imagine to this day you can still go back to it anew and enjoy it fresh all over again. When a gamer can find a game that does that for them, then it's a rare and fortunate find, and as a fellow gamer who knows how deeply enjoyable it can be to go back to an old favorite and relish it anew, I'm happy for you. But you can't blanketly declare 'Complaints against this game are invalid'. If folks hated elements of it, hated the plot, hated the characters, hated the graphics, whatever... then THEY hated that. You can no sooner declare their viewpoints invalid then they have any right to declare yours invalid. You loved it, they hated it. Their sentiment cannot take away any joy you got from the game, because for you, it worked. Period.
OT, I think that RPG fans hold their games to a higher standard than FPS fans do. Partly because of how much time is invested in a given RPG. Consider, you play a game solo for... what, fifty hours? Sixty? Hell, if it's an open-world game, you might even double those numbers. Ergo, once they finish such a game, they're pretty played out on those mechanics. FPS games are more bite-sized, rarely taking more than twenty hours at the longest to beat from start to credits, with most being closer to 2/3rds that ammount.
Plus, there's only so much you can do with an FPS. You go through the map, you shoot at things that are not you, you find ammo and guns, and if the programmers hate you there's a jumping puzzle. FPS fans know that going in. It's like how Koei's fanbase knows that the next Dynasty Warriors game is going to be pretty damn similar to the previous one. They still buy it, because that's what they want, it's what works for them.
With RPGs, though, there is an inherent belief that there needs to be difference and innovation... which often can be a bit idiotic. Hell, if turn based works for you, why do you want real time? If the leveling system worked for you before, why do you want to alter it? It's even more inane when you consider that, of the two game genres, RPGs are more associated with grand sweeping storylines... which exist typically outside of the mechanisms of gameplay. And not to harp, that's why for my money, I'd sooner go back and replay Final Fantasy Tactics for the... erm... thirteenth time now then play FF8 again. The story, the characters, the world, it all worked on a level you rarely find in most games. Sure, the graphics are dated, the turn based system is a little wonky, and some classes are outright gamebreakers when handled properly (my personal favorite being maximizing the speed of my party and leveling them all to max as Lancers... nothing says screw you to the final boss like jumping death performed in one turn before said boss can even start dishing out the pain). But if it works, it works. RPG gamers should cut back on demanding everything be new and innovative with every bloody title, and should instead look for the most fufilling experience with the components they like the most.