Why Is Nihilism Bad?

[Scrustle]

As I understand it nihilism is the belief that nothing has any intrinsic value, there is no such thing as objective morality, and that objective knowledge is impossible to obtain. To me this has always seemed mostly reasonable and agreeable, and I would describe myself as a nihilist on at least those first two counts. Yet I often hear people talk about nihilism as if it's negative or pointless, similar to how people react to solipsism. Why exactly is this? I don't see anything about nihilism, at least on these three core assertions, that would lead people to treat the position with such disdain, apart from a purely emotional reaction someone might have because of the perceivably cold nature of said claims. But that is obviously not solid grounds for rejecting a philosophical position. So what else is there that makes people think it's bad?

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

As I understand it nihilism is the belief that nothing has any intrinsic value, there is no such thing as objective morality, and that objective knowledge is impossible to obtain. To me this has always seemed mostly reasonable and agreeable, and I would describe myself as a nihilist on at least those first two counts. Yet I often hear people talk about nihilism as if it's negative or pointless, similar to how people react to solipsism. Why exactly is this? I don't see anything about nihilism, at least on these three core assertions, that would lead people to treat the position with such disdain, apart from a purely emotional reaction someone might have because of the perceivably cold nature of said claims. But that is obviously not solid grounds for rejecting a philosophical position. So what else is there that makes people think it's bad?

Bad? I don't think so. Now is it depressing? Hell yes.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Well, the nihilistic philosophy can lead to belief that nothing matters in life, except personal enjoyment, which would mean that giving to charity, helping others, and generally performing any act that isn't inherently selfish, would be a waste of effort. The darker side of nihilism is basically Nietsche's "ubermench" or superman. A man who has released himself from all shackles of society and culture, and common decency, to soley devote himself to himself. Doing what he wants, when he wants to do it, and never thinking "how will my actions affect other people", because it doesn't matter.

Also, fun fact: Shelob from Lord of The Rings was essentially a nihilist (well, from the books, the movies didn't look at her character at all) and she is actually probably the most powerful being in all Middle Earth, because of her Nihilistic hatred for it all.

 

[Scrustle]

Well, the nihilistic philosophy can lead to belief that nothing matters in life, except personal enjoyment, which would mean that giving to charity, helping others, and generally performing any act that isn't inherently selfish, would be a waste of effort. The darker side of nihilism is basically Nietsche's "ubermench" or superman. A man who has released himself from all shackles of society and culture, and common decency, to soley devote himself to himself. Doing what he wants, when he wants to do it, and never thinking "how will my actions affect other people", because it doesn't matter.

Also, fun fact: Shelob from Lord of The Rings was essentially a nihilist (well, from the books, the movies didn't look at her character at all) and she is actually probably the most powerful being in all Middle Earth, because of her Nihilistic hatred for it all.

But nihilism doesn't necessarily have to lead to selfish hedonism and a disregard for all others. Why can't it just be accepted that all there is is the subjective and that we can find meaning in that? We can decide in our own lives what has value to us and how we should run our own lives, and that could very well lead to a selfless life caring for others. We can still do all that and hold the belief that there's nothing objectively morally right or intrinsically valuable.

 

[The Salty Vulcan]

Well, the nihilistic philosophy can lead to belief that nothing matters in life, except personal enjoyment, which would mean that giving to charity, helping others, and generally performing any act that isn't inherently selfish, would be a waste of effort. The darker side of nihilism is basically Nietsche's "ubermench" or superman. A man who has released himself from all shackles of society and culture, and common decency, to soley devote himself to himself. Doing what he wants, when he wants to do it, and never thinking "how will my actions affect other people", because it doesn't matter.

Also, fun fact: Shelob from Lord of The Rings was essentially a nihilist (well, from the books, the movies didn't look at her character at all) and she is actually probably the most powerful being in all Middle Earth, because of her Nihilistic hatred for it all.

But nihilism doesn't necessarily have to lead to selfish hedonism and a disregard for all others. Why can't it just be accepted that all there is is the subjective and that we can find meaning in that? We can decide in our own lives what has value to us and how we should run our own lives, and that could very well lead to a selfless life caring for others. We can still do all that and hold the belief that there's nothing objectively morally right or intrinsically valuable.

There is actually a trope found in fiction (and thankfully in real life) called the Anti-Nihilist, whose view on things can be summed us: "There can't possibly be any meaning in this world, but that just means we can find our own."

 

[Hero in a half shell]

But nihilism doesn't necessarily have to lead to selfish hedonism and a disregard for all others. Why can't it just be accepted that all there is is the subjective and that we can find meaning in that? We can decide in our own lives what has value to us and how we should run our own lives, and that could very well lead to a selfless life caring for others. We can still do all that and hold the belief that there's nothing objectively morally right or intrinsically valuable.

How does "No intrinsic values exist" lead to "nothing matters in life, except personal enjoyment"? It's not as if actions that benefit yourself and those that benefit others are given any particular distinction by nihilism. They're treated the same unless you're introducing other ideas in.

Well, it doesn't mean that you suddenly start living life like a 100% dark side Bioware character, but the fear comes from the standpoint that there are no morals. There is no standard by which we must live, therefore even the laws of the land are pretty much meaningless to a true nihilist. Yes he could follow them, he could decide to obey them, but if the whim takes him he could just decide to go round to a school and shoot the place up. You can't say it's a bad thing to do, because there are no morals.

It takes away the protection we are given by the law, and by other people's moral standing, and creates an "anything goes" society. A society that could become a friendly, honest loving society where everyone looks out for each other, but it could also become a BackToTheFuture2 alternate reality style hellhole, and to a nihilist neither of those extreme outcomes is particuarly preferable over the other.

 

[Vault101]

as its already been said...it sort of goes with the Idea of not caring for others, and causing harm to others

 

[Scrustle]

Well, it doesn't mean that you suddenly start living life like a 100% dark side Bioware character, but the fear comes from the standpoint that there are no morals. There is no standard by which we must live, therefore even the laws of the land are pretty much meaningless to a true nihilist. Yes he could follow them, he could decide to obey them, but if the whim takes him he could just decide to go round to a school and shoot the place up. You can't say it's a bad thing to do, because there are no morals.

It takes away the protection we are given by the law, and by other people's moral standing, and creates an "anything goes" society. A society that could become a friendly, honest loving society where everyone looks out for each other, but it could also become a BackToTheFuture2 alternate reality style hellhole, and to a nihilist neither of those extreme outcomes is particuarly preferable over the other.

But nihilism doesn't say that there are no morals at all, only that there are no objective morals. It's a recognition that there is no single morality that is true for all and that it can be flexible. You could still be a nihilist and prefer to live in a world where people aren't randomly killing children or abusing sporting archive books from the future, because that would make society and your own life far worse than if you co-operated and helped people. But you do it not because it's written in stone by some higher power, but just because it would lead to a preferable outcome for everyone involved.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

But nihilism doesn't say that there are no morals at all, only that there are no objective morals. It's a recognition that there is no single morality that is true for all and that it can be flexible. You could still be a nihilist and prefer to live in a world where people aren't randomly killing children or abusing sporting archive books from the future, because that would make society and your own life far worse than if you co-operated and helped people. But you do it not because it's written in stone by some higher power, but just because it would lead to a preferable outcome for everyone involved.

Nihilism is a lot more extreme than this. The idea that nothing really matters is more correctly defined as Existential. It is about living in the moment, and crafting your own morals and priorities, because nothing is absolute. You can be existential and have morals.

As I was taught about it (in A-level English class) nihilism is a more extreme form of this thinking, it accepts that there are no absolutes, but takes that to mean that therefore the most desirable place for a person to be is in a state of complete separation from everything. All morals, social obligations, cultural constructs should be completely abandoned. A man should throw them off and stand seperate from that whole idea of doing something because you think it is right, or even because you think it is pleasurable. There was a quote about nihilism saying that actually taking no action is preferable to doing something; because nothing is certain, nothing is important, nothing has a point, so why bother.

Nihilism aims to create an emotionless, solid state of being in man, where he is completely seperate from the rest of the universe. No one can ever be criticised for their actions, no one can ever be wrong, no one can ever be right. There is no love, no hate, no pleasure or pain, just the self.
In short, it's really weird

 

[Scrustle]

But nihilism doesn't say that there are no morals at all, only that there are no objective morals. It's a recognition that there is no single morality that is true for all and that it can be flexible. You could still be a nihilist and prefer to live in a world where people aren't randomly killing children or abusing sporting archive books from the future, because that would make society and your own life far worse than if you co-operated and helped people. But you do it not because it's written in stone by some higher power, but just because it would lead to a preferable outcome for everyone involved.

Nihilism is a lot more extreme than this. The idea that nothing really matters is more correctly defined as Existential. It is about living in the moment, and crafting your own morals and priorities, because nothing is absolute. You can be existential and have morals.

As I was taught about it (in A-level English class) nihilism is a more extreme form of this thinking, it accepts that there are no absolutes, but takes that to mean that therefore the most desirable place for a person to be is in a state of complete separation from everything. All morals, social obligations, cultural constructs should be completely abandoned. A man should throw them off and stand seperate from that whole idea of doing something because you think it is right, or even because you think it is pleasurable. There was a quote about nihilism saying that actually taking no action is preferable to doing something; because nothing is certain, nothing is important, nothing has a point, so why bother.

Nihilism aims to create an emotionless, solid state of being in man, where he is completely seperate from the rest of the universe. No one can ever be criticised for their actions, no one can ever be wrong, no one can ever be right. There is no love, no hate, no pleasure or pain, just the self.
In short, it's really weird

Hmm I see. I took A level philosophy myself, but never studied nihilism specifically. You compelled me to do some extra reading and I found an article with some more detail (link [http://www.iep.utm.edu/nihilism/]). It seems that what you are referring to is closer to ethical nihilism, but ethical nihilism seems to be very similar to existential nihilism, which is closer to the impression that I had, albeit more extreme.

 

[Sejs Cube]

I had a post about nihilism, but ... fuck it.

 

[manic_depressive13]

Nihilism is not beneficial to society and therefore condemned by society. If nothing exists and nothing has value, nothing is worth preserving, nothing is worth improving. It is a state of existential despair, and as such is hardly conducive to work ethic. Nihilism has destructive connotations unlike existentialism which similarly rejects the idea of objective knowledge or morality. An existentialist says "life is what you make of it" while a nihilist says "nothing can be made of life".

 

[Waffle_Man]

Think about it: If you walked into a store and told the clerk that you don't believe in the institution of property and don't think stealing is wrong, they're going to look at you suspiciously at the very least. This is in spite of the fact that most shoplifters don't actively broadcast their intentions.

Having been more than a just a bit of a nihilist at one point, I would dare say that nothing is egregiously "wrong" with it. However, the reason most people don't like nihilists is because they don't trust them. Even though people frequently commit devious acts without being nihilistic, the average person essentially interprets the declaration of nihilism as a declaration of immorality, regardless of social constructs and coercive laws. It doesn't help that people who openly profess to be nihilistic are often annoyingly angsty...

 

[GenericAmerican]

I've been called a nihilist on several occasions, and I really don't care. I hate the need humans have to brand themselves as something. Be it Christian, atheist, Buddhist, evolutionist, or even nihilist. Why do we need to be called something, this arbitrary classification of how we live/what we believe. Why do we need to believe in something, why do we care where we came from/what made us?

We are here now, lets all get along, lets all have fun, and everything will be a lot better for us all.

 

[Krois]

"It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything"

Nothing bad about being nihilist, one myself. It was describe bad because people usually associate meaningless life as depressing, insane or destructive. But for me, without predetermined purpose, meaning or code of living allows me to hold onto a personal goal that I made for myself and live my fullest (hopefully) for it.

Yes, it can be morph into some kind of sick excuse for all the bad things but I can also choose not do to that simply because I don't want to; not because some legal system, holy book or any other guidance. It doesn't automatically says it's depressing, evil or bad just because. Tell me which belief can't be interpret as an excuse for bad things. Even moral absolution can be abuse if one were incline to do so.

Speaking of which, can someone be an athiest AND nihilist at the same time? Or nihilist being the more extreme form of believe over simply not believing in a deity?

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Would Doctor Manhattan be considered a Nihilist?