Why is Star Wars so popular?

happyninja42

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so now I can't see the old movies without seeing the prequels. Before you could write them off almost as different movies but now in my mind they are linked.
I've never had this issue with serialized stuff. Yeah the prequels weren't that great, but honestly compared to a lot of shit scifi that gets churned out, they are still above average. But when people compare them to the OT, there is a massive level of mythmaking elevation I think, to the comparison. I don't LIKE the prequels, other than bits here and there in the various films, I don't think they really help, or add anything of real substance to the OT narrative, but they don't stain the subsequent movies for me either.

Rouge One I had enough fun with, but not enough motivation to buy it.
Rogue One is the only SW movie that I am like, genuinely annoyed by. And it's not even because of the Star Wars stuff in it. Well, the blatant fanservice callbacks and references that do absolutely nothing and just waste screen time. But, like the prequels, the movie didn't need to exist. We didn't NEED a reason for the weakspot in the PLANET SIZED CONSTRUCTION, when the reason of "it's a design flaw that got overlooked." is perfectly reasonable. I mean we have countless examples in our own engineering history of very minor things, being overlooked, that caused catastrophic failures, that destroyed the entire thing. And these are things several orders of magnitude smaller in scale, and we can still screw them up. So I have zero issue internally with the idea of "the Empire, in a rush to build this thing quickly, out of fear that Vader or the Emperor will Force Choke a ***** if they don't meet the deadline (a threat they use to literally open the Imperial introduction in Return of the Jedi.), and they just get everything functional as best they can, and to hell with safety checks and running tests to make sure it all works!! That psycho Vader is coming and his method of persuasion is to just choke you out in front of your underlings! So get that damn vent working so the laser doesn't overheat!! I don't care what you have to do!!"

So the entire point of the film, from the onset, is superfluous. But it was a lot of little things are what annoyed me, like how Jen was a complete blank slate and emotionless noodle. How they couldn't stop pleasuring themselves to namedropping the word HOPE at every opportunity, because NEW HOPE!! It's Star Wars!! LIKE IT DAMNIT!!

The part that broke me though, was that shot of Jen climbing the ladder at the climax, and she's going towards an opening to the next landing, and there is an iris porthole over the entrance/exit.....and it's just....opening and closing....for no reason. It's not like it's a motion sensor door at a grocery store or something. No it's just, opening on it's own, independent of her climbing. And she's apparently got to time her climb up this ladder to not be cut in half? Who the fuck designs a thing like that?! And they just...linger on the shot of her climbing that ladder...for soooo long...that I started dubbing in this line.


And I couldn't stop laughing to myself in the theater as I watched it.

Anyway, rant about Rogue One over.

OT: Because the various films and tv shows have utilized some of the most well established, and time tested story elements in human narrative history. So that a wide group of people, can find at least some element in them, that they enjoy and love, and that they resonate with on an emotional level. They introduced human culture to things that hit a really deep core, and have something of an atavistic reaction to our psyche. The lightsaber, being chief among them. Between the idea of a pocket sized LASER SWORD, the sound it makes as it ignites, the glowing power of it. The humming power as you swing one around. That all speaks to a lot of people, and they enjoy it. The mystic, zen like nature of the Force and how it doesn't really need any trappings of religion to explain it, while also speaking to that mysticism side of human nature. The villains are sufficiently villainy that we enjoy watching them be defeated, the heroes are sufficiently heroic that we cheer when they succeed. The archetypal nature of said heroes and villains, meaning they translate easily no matter what culture someone comes from, and even children can instantly understand who the badguys are, who the good guys are, what their motivations are, etc.

The music. There....there is a reason that John Williams is considered a legend in cinematic music circles. He knows how to compose amazing, sweeping scores that perfectly convey the emotions being reflected on screen, and the timing of his musical beats, perfectly help to transition the audiences mood from one of tension to excitement, and then to sadness and loss.

I mean, we could go on, but there are literally, tons of LECTURES, by actual historians and teachers, about the impact of Star Wars on human culture and society. So...go read/watch those maybe?
 
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09philj

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The first three films are a jolly good romp, and actually really well made for sci-fi films of the time. It's full of really well considered production design, and the main cast have really good snarky chemistry. The first one came out at the perfect moment where risky blockbusters could do really, really well. John Williams' score is also brilliant and really sticks in your head. The other thing is that those initial films left a lot of room for merchandising and inspired a lot of writers to produce spin off work which fleshed out this fantastic, magical universe.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Eeeehhhh.....You're kinda on the money, except he is the grandfather. She's the daughter of his sons/clones who married a woman. It's really stupid and Disney ended up making the exact same mistakes as some of the EU novels where Palaptine has a clone and/or off spring. Making them jettison the old EU even more pointless since they did exact same fucking thing!
Ugh, thats just as bad and stupid. I hate when things do that, where every damn little thing is connected, its barely ever interesting and it makes the universe seem smaller since it doesn't matter how big a galaxy is, if you meet Dave's twin brother on the other side of it then it feels small.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I've never had this issue with serialized stuff. Yeah the prequels weren't that great, but honestly compared to a lot of shit scifi that gets churned out, they are still above average. But when people compare them to the OT, there is a massive level of mythmaking elevation I think, to the comparison. I don't LIKE the prequels, other than bits here and there in the various films, I don't think they really help, or add anything of real substance to the OT narrative, but they don't stain the subsequent movies for me either.
Well episode 3 was the poison pill for me, cause not only did it link itself with the old movies in a way that made me like them less, but it also took away things from the earlier movies that I liked. For instance in episode 2, I liked the clone troopers vs robots scene, I've always had a bit of a weakness for the faceless solder kinda thing and so it was cool seeing them be the good guys without having to have their helmets off. Then, at the start of episode 3 we have 3 or 4 of the clone pilots with Anikin and they have no helmets on, they are just the same damn guy, I mean I know they are clones but since you are forced to accept that right at the start its like. "Oh yeah, these are totally disposable people and they don't matter at all, so much for even being able to enjoy the space scenes."
 

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Ugh, thats just as bad and stupid. I hate when things do that, where every damn little thing is connected, its barely ever interesting and it makes the universe seem smaller since it doesn't matter how big a galaxy is, if you meet Dave's twin brother on the other side of it then it feels small.
That is why I am not invested in buying it.
 

happyninja42

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Well episode 3 was the poison pill for me, cause not only did it link itself with the old movies in a way that made me like them less, but it also took away things from the earlier movies that I liked. For instance in episode 2, I liked the clone troopers vs robots scene, I've always had a bit of a weakness for the faceless solder kinda thing and so it was cool seeing them be the good guys without having to have their helmets off. Then, at the start of episode 3 we have 3 or 4 of the clone pilots with Anikin and they have no helmets on, they are just the same damn guy, I mean I know they are clones but since you are forced to accept that right at the start its like. "Oh yeah, these are totally disposable people and they don't matter at all, so much for even being able to enjoy the space scenes."
*shrugs* Masked or no, they are equally disposable in the films. I don't begrudge the actor getting some actual face time, given how much his voice was being used. Again, that's just not a detail that bothers me that much. I guess because there is a part of me that is always considering the actual production side of it? That totally peels back the suspension of disbelief, and thinks about how they had to make it with actors and props and stuff? So for me, when you first said that criticism about them not wearing helmets, literally my first thought was "well yeah, that actor deserves screen time in each film. As voice credits and screen credits can carry different weight for an actor when looking at their body of work. He probably wanted to actually try and act his heart out in the role, as it was literally the role of a lifetime." I mean that's not even unique to Star Wars, the whole "this person would realistically be wearing a helmet in this scene, because combat." That's like...well every film/tv that has combat, especially open war stuff. The actors need to be seen, so the audience can follow the protagonists through the sea of faceless mooks.

I mean, I get your criticism, I just don't really share it. My brain just always goes "yeah that's just part of the sauce of making a movie."

The stuff that irks me, are things like in Phantom Menace, establishing that they can run literally faster than the eye can track (with that blurred sprint down the hallway at the beginning ambush), but then Obi-Wan runs normal human speed when trying to catch up to Qui-Gon and Maul. THAT shit annoys me. When they are inconsistent with their own established limitations.
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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Aesthetics. The Original Trilogy wasn't much to write home about, in terms of plot, but the visual design really created an immersive world and made it come to life. The single most important sequence to the entire series is the one in New Hope just showing Luke living his life on Tattooine because that's when this universe turned from the backdrop of a story to a world people actually live in. Being able to immerse people in a different world can be more important to a fantasy or Science-Fiction story than actual narrative. Not like Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter or Blade Runner have mindblowing plots, exactly.

That being said, the Star Wars series has always struggled to recapture that magic. The prequel trilogy rarely ever looks like it's even set in the same world as the original movies and the sequel trilogy, outside of Last Jedi, i.e. the one that's actually good, treats it like a static museum piece. But long story short, Star Wars is popular because its audiovisual language created a world people like to spend time in. The fact that I still want to return to this world after enduring Attack of the Clones and Rise of Skywalker is testament to that.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
*shrugs* Masked or no, they are equally disposable in the films. I don't begrudge the actor getting some actual face time, given how much his voice was being used. Again, that's just not a detail that bothers me that much. I guess because there is a part of me that is always considering the actual production side of it? That totally peels back the suspension of disbelief, and thinks about how they had to make it with actors and props and stuff? So for me, when you first said that criticism about them not wearing helmets, literally my first thought was "well yeah, that actor deserves screen time in each film. As voice credits and screen credits can carry different weight for an actor when looking at their body of work. He probably wanted to actually try and act his heart out in the role, as it was literally the role of a lifetime." I mean that's not even unique to Star Wars, the whole "this person would realistically be wearing a helmet in this scene, because combat." That's like...well every film/tv that has combat, especially open war stuff. The actors need to be seen, so the audience can follow the protagonists through the sea of faceless mooks.
I think you are misunderstanding. I never said they weren't, they are dedicated background characters that exist to be able to be killed without a second thought. But, narratively I was able to form some kind of relation to them when they were just faceless fodder since again, I've always kinda had a weakness for that aesthetic and it was nice for them to actually be the good guys for once. But then when the masks came off there was no way to ignore them just being clones and utterly disposable. Also, I totally disagree with having to see the actors face, I understand your point, but I disagree with it since movies like Dredd and Deadpool were improved by not always showing the leads faces. Dredd would not have been made better if he was constantly taking off his helmet.
 

happyninja42

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I think you are misunderstanding. I never said they weren't, they are dedicated background characters that exist to be able to be killed without a second thought. But, narratively I was able to form some kind of relation to them when they were just faceless fodder since again, I've always kinda had a weakness for that aesthetic and it was nice for them to actually be the good guys for once. But then when the masks came off there was no way to ignore them just being clones and utterly disposable. Also, I totally disagree with having to see the actors face, I understand your point, but I disagree with it since movies like Dredd and Deadpool were improved by not always showing the leads faces. Dredd would not have been made better if he was constantly taking off his helmet.
I understand what you said, I just don't share the opinion on it. It's interesting that you are able to empathize more with a literal faceless character, than one with a face. I guess you are mentally tricking yourself into NOT realizing they are all equally identical clones with the same voice under the helmet? Which is rather strange, but interesting. I mean, the trope of using identical armor suits, with face covering masks, is pretty much always used to denote disposable characters. Yet you only had that reaction when seeing their face...which in a way is also an identical mask, denoting their sameness and disposability.
 

Worgen

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I understand what you said, I just don't share the opinion on it. It's interesting that you are able to empathize more with a literal faceless character, than one with a face. I guess you are mentally tricking yourself into NOT realizing they are all equally identical clones with the same voice under the helmet? Which is rather strange, but interesting. I mean, the trope of using identical armor suits, with face covering masks, is pretty much always used to denote disposable characters. Yet you only had that reaction when seeing their face...which in a way is also an identical mask, denoting their sameness and disposability.
Considering the characters in that movie, I'm surprised you don't empathize more with the faceless solders. I still think you are misunderstanding my point, otherwise you would understand more why the difference between them all looking alike and being identical, although I also might not be explaining it well. I'm not talking about actors needing to show their face or anything like that, I'm talking that usually the army of faceless solders are just the bad guys in movies, so it was kinda neat seeing one be the good guys. Them never showing the solders faces during the fighting in episode 2 allows a form of anthropomorphic connection to them, but then showing the face in episode 3 reminds us that oh yeah, not only are they disposable in a movie sense, but also they are disposable in a narrative sense also. Its the difference between having James Bond killing 5 random enemy agents and going through a barracks where each bed has personal affects and one with just 5 identical steel sleeping tubes. One has some moral weight to it, the other means those agents literally exist only to die.
 

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It has WW2 combat tropes all over the place, which seems to be the de facto standard everyone likes in movies.

It has space wizards with LAZER swords.

The bad guy(Vader) is mysterious and threatening and kinda cool looking.

SFX are generally good, with a few exceptions.

Generally relatable and/or likable characters.

Fairly well defined Good vs. Evil lines without being too controversial in theme or content. Even the Genocide of entire planets is accomplished via GIANT SPACE LASER, which doesn't have the same visceral impact of a nuke or indiscriminate bombing campaigns against urban areas.

Thus appeals to a wide swath of people
The turret run at the end of A New Hope was inspired by 633 Squadron and Dam Busters (1955).
I just rewatched it, asking myself, was it really that good? Yup. It really was (is).
 
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Dalisclock

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The turret run at the end of A New Hope was inspired by 633 Squadron and Dam Busters (1955).
I just rewatched it, asking myself, was it really that good? Yup. It really was (is).
I'd go further then that. I'd say parts of the trench run were outright lifted from the Dambusters.

It's a great scene regardless.
 

gorfias

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I'd go further then that. I'd say parts of the trench run were outright lifted from the Dambusters.

It's a great scene regardless.
I'd never seen that before! That was great, thanks!

Here is the trench run from 633 Squadron
 
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Ezekiel

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It's a pity Lucas had such low budgets, though. I was reading the huge Ralph McQuarrie art book a couple of months ago and kept thinking how much more alien the sets could have looked, especially Degobah, which I always found so cheaply done.



A quote off about the limitations on the right that the site won't allow me to upload:
But I still really respect the craftsmanship.