Why is the combat in the TES games so bad?

[axillarypuma]

So I've been wondering how do people play this stuff so much? don't get me wrong I love killing dragons and monsters and exploring as much as the next guy BUT the thing that just keeps me away from playing is how AWFULLY bad the combat is, I mean hitting things doesn't feel right, there's no variety in combat, specially melee combat, you just hit your target like a 3 year old with a stick.

I'm not asking for super deep combat but COME ON, it's just awful, the movements look unnatural.

So what keeps you playing for so long?

 

[TehCookie]

The only one I played was Skyrim, because the exploration was worth it. The combat is not great but it's still playable.

On the other hand exists Morrowind where the combat is so terrible I refuse to touch the game again unless I decide to mod myself into a god. Even that just the thought of that combat still makes me wary to even get near the game. I can't recall a game that was praised so much and turn out to be so bad.

 

[SmallHatLogan]

The thing about Morrowind (and Arena and Daggerfall) is that it masquerades as an action game but the combat is just about the numbers. It kind of reminds me of Diablo. You just click on the enemy until they die. In Oblivion and Skyrim they tried to make the combat more hack 'n' slashey but did a horrible job of it. I prefer Morrowind's combat (or non-combat if you like) because it gets in the way of my fun a lot less than the boring combat in Oblivion and Skyrim.

I will say for Skyrim though, I found shield bashing people to death and blasting people off cliffs with level 3 unrelenting force was both fun and satisfying. So I'll give Skyrim a pass. I still hate Oblivion though.

 

[MysticSlayer]

Well, at least in Oblivion and Skyrim, archery combat is reasonably enjoyable. Sure, it isn't going to overthrow any major shooter franchises anytime soon, but I still found playing archer characters was much more enjoyable than melee characters. Actually, stealth characters in general are more fun, but that's my preference in every game.

Anyways, I don't think the Elder Scrolls is worth playing for hundreds of hours because of gameplay. Maybe after mods it is, but the main reason to play is to explore the world, meet a few interesting characters, and experiment with the game. If all there was was combat, then I too would question why people would spend hours with the games. But combat is really only a small fraction of what the games have the offer, and it is really everything outside the combat that keeps me playing each game for dozens to hundreds of hours.

 

[axillarypuma]

I suppose we all think differently, I love exploring but the combat for me is a big factor, the only exception is maybe minecraft because I like to build most of the time, while I agree that magic in TES games isn't bad( or ranged combat in general), for people who like melee characters it's quite a big disappointment, to have a super fucking awesome sword and armor and fight like a 3 year old.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I like the exploration more than the combat and even when I do fight, I favor a sneaky sort of theif/assassin. I didn't play much of Skyrim when compared to Oblivion because I felt like I was discouraged from exploring too much in Skyrim: in another thread I mentioned that in Skyrim, you can find the "back doors" of dungeons fairly easily (more easily than in Oblivion anyway) but you would know you had entered one of these 'back doors' because within 10 to 20 paces you would come up against a door that was locked and unable to be picked. Part of what I loved about Oblivion was stumbling into a half-hidden door to find that, Hey! This is the ass-end of a dungeon and I just found reward-ish stuff!

As for the combat, there really isn't much weight behind it. Sure, Bethesda tried: swinging an axe is made to look like you're swinging a big, heavy thing but making contact with an enemy isn't very satisfying. Enemies don't need to fly back a kilometer for me to feel powerful but like what OP said, most melee combat feels like you're just waving a stick around until the big-bad falls over.

 

[axillarypuma]

I like the exploration more than the combat and even when I do fight, I favor a sneaky sort of theif/assassin. I didn't play much of Skyrim when compared to Oblivion because I felt like I was discouraged from exploring too much in Skyrim: in another thread I mentioned that in Skyrim, you can find the "back doors" of dungeons fairly easily (more easily than in Oblivion anyway) but you would know you had entered one of these 'back doors' because within 10 to 20 paces you would come up against a door that was locked and unable to be picked. Part of what I loved about Oblivion was stumbling into a half-hidden door to find that, Hey! This is the ass-end of a dungeon and I just found reward-ish stuff!

As for the combat, there really isn't much weight behind it. Sure, Bethesda tried: swinging an axe is made to look like you're swinging a big, heavy thing but making contact with an enemy isn't very satisfying. Enemies don't need to fly back a kilometer for me to feel powerful but like what OP said, most melee combat feels like you're just waving a stick around until the big-bad falls over.

So you get my point right? I don't need a super fantastic combat system with fancy combos and shit, just make the combat a little more tactical or just make swords and melee weapons actually feel like what they are.

 

[Elfgore]

I'm one of the very few people who enjoy TES's combat. I like what Oblivion did with it and love what Skyrim did to improve it. I really can't explain why I like it either, I just do.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Why ask a subjective question if you know you'll get a subjective answer? That's what I'd like to know.

There's no way to empirically prove that the Elder Scrolls series has awful combat, since everything is a question of taste and personal habits, as far as games go. I like Skyrim's combat because it doesn't require me to have sharp eyes or razor-sharp accuracy levels. I'm guessing someone who has a decent grasp on movement timing will prefer stuff like Dark Souls' combat, in comparison, but I don't want to parry and dodge and juke and all that. I don't even want to bother with consistently packing the right tool for the job.

Personally, I play to unwind and generally have fun. I'm not much for challenges. Considering, anything that hurts and that makes an arbitrary life bar go down is fine with me.

 

[thiosk]

For me, TES is a skull collection simulator. Sitting here today, I can't remember a lick of the combat.

Step 1:
Buy house
Step 2:
Fill with skull objects and other weird trash objects.
Step 3:
Repeat

 

[SKBPinkie]

So what keeps you playing for so long?

Level 3 slow time shout + dual daedric blades + leveled up one-handed tree.

Enter room.
Slow time.
Kill the first guy you see.
Kill everyone else with dual flurry.
The shout's effect ends.

Every enemy dies simultaneously because you've killed everyone before the first guy has even dropped to the floor.

While the combat mechanics aren't satisfying by themselves, it's stuff like this that makes it awesome.

 

[Zeldias]

So I've been wondering how do people play this stuff so much? don't get me wrong I love killing dragons and monsters and exploring as much as the next guy BUT the thing that just keeps me away from playing is how AWFULLY bad the combat is, I mean hitting things doesn't feel right, there's no variety in combat, specially melee combat, you just hit your target like a 3 year old with a stick.

I'm not asking for super deep combat but COME ON, it's just awful, the movements look unnatural.

So what keeps you playing for so long?

"It's not about the combat, blah blah exploration story whatever." Not meaning to say that in a way that pisses on people who like that in ES, just that's normally the argument in a nutshell.

I like character building typically, which gets me into it. Problem is that once I'm strong enough, I don't care anymore. Once I start one-hitting dragons with a running power attack from a hammer in Skyrim, it's all sort of lost it's appeal. At least in Fallout 3 and New Vegas, the gunplay can still be slightly interesting.

I'm pretty much with you, though. I don't find ES super compelling either.

 

[odinzeus]

Why the combat and animation from the TES games is still from 1998?
Because when you get 11/10 Goty every year and sell 20 million copies,why would you try to improve anything? You need some sort of criticism for that.

 

[SajuukKhar]

So I've been wondering how do people play this stuff so much? don't get me wrong I love killing dragons and monsters and exploring as much as the next guy BUT the thing that just keeps me away from playing is how AWFULLY bad the combat is, I mean hitting things doesn't feel right, there's no variety in combat, specially melee combat, you just hit your target like a 3 year old with a stick.

I'm not asking for super deep combat but COME ON, it's just awful, the movements look unnatural.

So what keeps you playing for so long?

Modern TES games generally have poor combat because of the very nature of the game.

TES is neither an RPG, nor is it an action game, its a weird fusion of both, which means it can never be as good as either in some regards.

It can never be a super great action game because the need for some amount of stats in order to maintain the RPG aspect eliminates most possibly "player-skill" scenarios such as having to hit specific enemy weak points with a specific weapon type while dodging overly powerful attacks that can kill you in two hits like Dark Souls does.

On the other and, the need for some amount of "player-skill" elements are needed to make the game an actual action game isntead of a pure RPG that's all dice-roll based, which limits how much the stats of said weapons can actually do beyond giving more damage or more armor.

TES is screwed combat wise because its stuck between two entirely contradictory types of gameplay. However, making the game fully one way or the other would piss off long-time series fans, and general expectations of what the rest of the game will be like.
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Despite all this however, I do believe Skyrim made many major strides to improvement over past games, with
-A greater variation between weapons weights, stagger times, speeds, noise levels, and damage.
-Specialized weapon perks that give each weapon its own ability.
-Various power attacks(forward/backwards/side-to-side/standing), each with their own different effects.
-The added ability to interrupt enemy attacks via blocking right before the attack would land, or shield bashing while they are winding up for power attacks.
-New blocking powers such as disarming when shield bashing, and the block runner perk which is useful for knocking down large groups of enemies.

though, while they do make the combat more fun if used, the game suffers from never actually having to make you use them, thus most people dont, and only play it the most dull way.

 

[Someone Depressing]

I agree. The combat does lose its novelty, and it does get very boring.


It's why I always play a stealth class. Like, sixty gaurds, all of whom are burly and supermuscled whereas you're struggling to even carry the clothes you're wearing? Metal Gear it.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

As a sum of it's parts Skyrim (and ES) are much loved. But if you were to scrutinise individual elements without context to the rest of the game, it can come up lacking.

So people who go in with a particular need to satisfy will often come out disappointed.

The combat works for me. This been a guy who will almost always default to a pure melee role on my first playthrough. It's both functional and dynamic enough to make combat engaging over repeated use. It's not astounding by any measure, but it satisfies as a part to a much larger whole. That being said, TES really shines with cross classes. Unlike other traditional RPGs, where every class is segregated from the rest, or cross classes/dual classes that offer hefty penalties which can hinder the experience, TES, and especially skyrim, gives you all the skills and says "Go play".

So my Imperial Illusionist Assassin, my multi-skilled magically inept Nord ranger and my brutal orc battlemage all form organically through play, as opposed to arbitrarily assigning a role before I even get a feel for what works well. It also enables you to adjust your focus on the fly... so I could start out as a Pure warrior, but touch on stealth skills and dabble in magic, creating an interesting hybrid class that forms entirely through experimental play.

Bethesdas primary strength is world building and lore crafting. It can be utterly engrossing just to wander the land, learning its history and secrets.

Everything is a piece to a larger whole. If any of those pieces are more important to the player then the sandbox experience presented, it will almost always fail to satisfy. That's at least how I have come to see it.