Why is there such snobbery towards Hip-Hop?

Flamezdudes

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I just can't like any of it, i'm fine if others like it but I personally can't enjoy it at all. Its mostly the lyrics, the voices the artists use etc. Its not my sort of music at all.
 

Raven's Nest

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Its not so much the music that bothers me, I can just ignore it.

Its the denziens of fucktards that worship and glorify it. Remember the London (and other city) riots this summer gone? I don't want to stereotype but I've got a pretty good feeling a lot of them were into hip-hop...

And I wonder which musical genre exemplifies the ownership of petty material goods as the height of social standing?

Yeah, they weren't out stealing ferraris or making political statements. They were stealing footware and playstations...
 

Connor Lonske

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I love Hip-Hop, I try to Beat Box, I think DJing is very fucking respectable and takes a lot of skill, and my favorite Band/Group from the 80s is the Phat Boys.

That being said, I think most modern rap is shit. Like, it's almost completely shit.

Ether, one, it's not rap, like Snoop Dog's modern stuff.

Two, It's derogatory, like with the artist OP mentioned (Especially to gays, I like how no one's said this yet)

Or three, It's making up words that don't even fucking exist to make up for poor rhyming skills.

I find it sad how much this happens in Hip Hop. I still enjoy the stuff before it became a symbol for crime and violence in the 90s and turned to shitty writing and cliches to get it to continue being popular.
 

Vigormortis

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Gxas said:

The above are examples of Rap/Hip-Hop that I enjoy.
There is meaning, such deep meaning, behind the lyrics, and that is why I enjoy it.

When people hear "rap" or "hip-hop", usually, they think "top 40". This, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with people today.

The same goes for all genres though. I heard one girl say, "I don't like any band that is part of a genre with the word 'core' at the end of it." She then went on to listen to My Chemical Romance and Jimmy Eat World. Both of which are considered emo-core bands.

It is a preconceived notion based on other peoples' opinions on the matter which causes people to think, "Oh, there's a lot of people who don't like Fall Out Boy. I've never heard a song of theirs, but they must be terrible musicians. I'll just go listen to All Time Low."

People anger me.

(Did I lose track of my point?)
Good sir, I'd like to personally thank you for introducing me to Weerd Science. Can't believe I've not heard of them before.
 

similar.squirrel

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From the perspective of this forum, I think a lot of the posters here are the kind of people who listen to metal and get bullied by the gangsta types. That said, I'd say 99% of gangsta rap is garbage as well. I'm into things like Buck 65 and Saul Williams, who actually have something interesting to say.
 

Lunar Templar

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Hazy992 said:
TLDR; why are people so dismissive of Hip-Hop? It's a legitimate genre of music, and a legitimate art form.
i agree and disagree with this. while yes its legitimate form of music and an art form in the right hands.

my personal problem is its so full of fakes, sell outs and throw aways, the rock equivalent would be Linkin park or Nickleback, only they're everywhere, while the true talent is ether rare, or dead.

which leads to another problem i have, its the only form of music where people, have murdered each other or caused violence toward each other over on such a large scale, take a quick stock of how many hip-hop greats are still alive, compared to say, country or rock.

and lastly, content. (this is the biggest one for me btw) they're the most boastful of all musical groups, and for one, do not fucking CARE, how many cars they have, how much money they have, or how many 'bitches' they've been with, not to mention when they brag about shooting or stabbing some one.

but then, I'm white :p i prefer something i can at least relate to, or a lifestyle I'd actually want, and in that regard Nickleback > all of hip-hop
 

Fiz_The_Toaster

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Once upon a time I used to like it, and then I had a falling out with the genre a few years after that, i.e. I got bored with it and it got ridiculous.

I tried listening to the new stuff and I just don't like it, but I can appreciate it as a genre because of the understanding I had with it early on. I just tolerate it now, and I really don't get the massive hatred towards it, that's just silly.
 

Vandenberg1

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Hazy992 said:
Now I LOVE Hip-Hop, it's one of my favourite genres and I listen to it probably every day. So it frankly pisses me off when some people (and I must stress, SOME) start saying that rap isn't real music or that it isn't worth their time, thinking they're better than those that listen to it.

Now I know some rap has its problems, like Lil Wayne and 50 Cent being derogatory to women and the sheer idiocy of the Insane Clown Posse, but how can you lump that nonsense with the golden age rap of Public Enemy, Grandmaster Flash and the like or the more alternative stuff of Tyler The Creator or Immortal Technique? Hip-hop is a valid art form just like other genres of music.

I've even heard some people (including here on The Escapist) say that rap, by definition, isn't music at all! Webster defines music as 'vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony.' Hip-Hop clearly hits these criteria.

BTW I'm not a Hip-Hop elitist or anything like that. I listen to loads of genres; Punk, Metal, Soul, Funk, Pop, Dubstep, D'n'B, Grime. If it sounds good I'll listen to it. It just annoys me that people are so harsh and dismissive of something I love so much.

TLDR; why are people so dismissive of Hip-Hop? It's a legitimate genre of music, and a legitimate art form.
Personally I hate all GHETTO culture... I grew up around it like every kid in california and I can't stand the attitude, the cars, the clothes, the encouragment to act like an idiot all the time. Most of my friends these days do mostly like mainstream hip hop and rap haha... Now old school rap like the song The Message, back in the late 70's to the political Rap in the 80's with NWA is good stuff and i'll support them anyday (even tho they have all become sissies lol Ice -T)...having said that I am and have always been a Metal-Head first and formost, but I love ETHNIC music, especially pagan-folk music,Native American to Iceland to Ireland all have fantastic ethnic folk music.
 

Indeterminacy

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Hazy992 said:
TLDR; why are people so dismissive of Hip-Hop? It's a legitimate genre of music, and a legitimate art form.
I'm going to say something that might seem controversial, and perhaps rather self-demeaning here, but here goes:

I generally think of the role of lyrics in music as being at most a useful vehicle for the instrument of the human voice, and generally eliminable. When I listen to music, I don't do it because I'm interested in what the person has to say with their actual words - music to me is the non-verbal communication and all of the emotional associations we make to the various highs and lows of any given piece or song.

Hip-hop/rap don't have the same degree of musical complexity, to the point where I would say they're more like poetry than music. And to be honest, I don't like poetry. At all.

The supposed virtue of poetry is that the content of what is presented can be directly engaged with - what is actually said is made a more pivotal aspect of the enjoyment of the medium - while being presented in an aesthetic way.

It seems like a medium that focuses too much on syntactic cleverness using alliteration, rhyme, inflection, meter and so on, and this strikes me as inauthentic representation of what it talks about. I think if you had to depend on such poetic utilities to say what you wanted to say, there is an important question about whether the original statement amounted to anything substantial. And as far as those lyrical tricks go, I just don't find them interesting anyway.

I think this criticism carries equally well over to rap - it is hard to take anything rapped about at face value.
 

Folji

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I like guitars. My experience with hip-hop has led me to understand it lacks guitars. That, and there's sampling. For once I'd like to come across to someone listening to the intro of Under Pressure without Vanilla Ice's voice suddenly kicking in.
 

HardkorSB

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Owyn_Merrilin said:
HardkorSB said:
I think you mean RAP, not HIP-HOP.
That's actually a British distinction. In the US, it's all rap; hip hop is just an outdated term for it, and anyone using it past the mid to late 80's winds up looking too white to live.
What?
No, you're completely wrong.
Hip-hop is a culture created in New York in the 1970's by people from ghettos to create something positive in an environment otherwise full of negativity.
The main and most well known forms of artistic expression within the hip-hop culture are rap, bboying, graffiti and turntablism.

Who told you this "British distinction" thing? Because I've personally talked to the guy who came up with the term "hip-hop" and he would very much disagree with you.
 

HeatproofShAdOw

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I look down upon hip-hop compared to other genres because of two things.

A lot of it I'VE heard is way, way to basic and could be made in 5 minutes, lacking any creative elements and simply made to make the label money.

The subject matter of it is utter crap. Every song I've heard my friends listening too (not every song mind you, but a lot) is just drugs, sex, alcohol, shootings and basically a chance for whoever the artist is too puff out his chest, all neatly contained with a couple hundred uses of fuck.

I know that this is a gross generalization, but for every good hip-hop/rap song that you find, you'll find 100 that only serve to further drive humanity into the ground. I can enjoy a lot of old-school hip-hop/rap, such as gangsters paradise, but all this new shit made by t-pain and Lil-wayne is unoriginal and just generally crap, and is only made to pander to 12-15 year olds who think its cool.

/rant
 

Hazy992

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Indeterminacy said:
Hazy992 said:
TLDR; why are people so dismissive of Hip-Hop? It's a legitimate genre of music, and a legitimate art form.
I'm going to say something that might seem controversial, and perhaps rather self-demeaning here, but here goes:

I generally think of the role of lyrics in music as being at most a useful vehicle for the instrument of the human voice, and generally eliminable. When I listen to music, I don't do it because I'm interested in what the person has to say with their actual words - music to me is the non-verbal communication and all of the emotional associations we make to the various highs and lows of any given piece or song.

Hip-hop/rap don't have the same degree of musical complexity, to the point where I would say they're more like poetry than music. And to be honest, I don't like poetry. At all. It seems like a medium that focuses too much on syntactic cleverness using alliteration, rhyme, inflection, meter and so on, and this strikes me as inauthentic. And as far as those lyrical tricks go, I just don't find them interesting anyway. I think this criticism carries equally well over to rap - it is hard to take anything rapped about at face value.
Just personal preference I guess. Personally I like the actual sound of rapping (if its done well, it has to have good rhythm) as well as listening to the lyrics. I couldn't listen to 50 Cent or Lil Wayne even if they were master wordsmiths as I don't like the way they rap.
 

Jazoni89

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Yokai said:
There are a couple of rap and hip-hop songs I like. The genre has potential, but it's so ridden with egotism, misogyny and "thug life" nonsense that in general I stick to genres of music that I find more enjoyable. I like my music to be more than shameless self-plugging. Again, I'm well aware that's only a portion of the genre, but it's significantly more difficult for me to pull songs I like out of the inevitable crap.
Jazoni89 said:
I admittedly am not a huge fan of Hip-Hop, but I can appreciate the genre, because I'm a fan of it's derivative form Trip-Hop. Which is pretty much Hip-hop beats and scratching, but minus the rapping and distastful lyrics that are associated with the genre. Instead replaced with mostly echoic Female vocals, it's really good stuff, and I recommend the genre for people who are not big on the rapping part of Hip-Hop.

Here's some choice favourites.





Trip-hop is great--I can't get enough of Massive Attack.
Yes, us Brits take shitty music genres and turn them upside down, that's what we do best.

The Bristol sound forever motherfuckers! Screw the homies in the hood, this is the real crack.
 

Hazy992

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I've noticed on here that people are saying 'I don't like it because of what they rap about, they all rap about the same thing', but this is incredibly naive. People are generalising hip-hop and ignoring all the truly great stuff out there. You wouldn't say all rock lyrics are the same so I don't know why its OK to do so for hip-hop.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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I don't like it because of the excessive swearing, the sometimes racist/sexist themes, self grandstanding, lack of musical rhythm/harmony, repetitive themes and plagiarism.

Compare hip hop to, say, classical music (for example) on an oscilloscope (a real one, not the mp3 player plugins). The classical has a more harmonic pattern that hip hop doesn't, by comparison it is more abrupt and jarring. It hurts my ears.

Not sure if that last part will be interpreted right, not actual pain, but a discord that is "painful" to hear.
 

Xanthious

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I despise rap because the "artists" and behavior they demonstrate manages to exemplify every single thing that is wrong with black culture. As a black person I find the messages these over paid criminals are putting forward are setting us back as a people a good century or better and the way these thugs act is nothing but "coon buffoonery".

Hell I come from a poor black family and I'm disgusted by the image that is attached to the black community thanks largely to rap music. When I hear your stereotypical black person cry racism I can't help but think we have nobody to blame but ourselves for putting forward a public image we do through rap music. It shouldn't be surprising that when we glorify thugs and criminals and act little better than thugs and criminals ourselves that people naturally treat us as little better than thugs and criminals. It's fucking pathetic so many black people attempt to emulate the behavior put forward by these rappers.
 

The Diabolical Biz

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Blablahb said:
Naeo said:
It's the same reason people hate on metal (and within the metal community, the hate on the various sub-genres), drone, noise, pop, etc. Because they don't like it and often don't listen to a lot of it so they decide it's all the same and terrible and awful.
Not quite. You can't comment on the musical skill needed to make metal. Neither can you call the surrounding culture low.

Rap and hiphop however, don't take a lot of musical skill to make. You don't need to play any instruments let alone master them, you don't have to understand how multiple melodies and themes combine, you don't need to be able to understand consonant and dissonant tones, etc etc.

And the culture surrounding it is just plain stupid. It is aimed at people who can not succeed in life, and thus exhaust the sparce resources they have on shallow things. And over time it's actually grown to take that for granted.

And quite frankly there's no dismissing those objections either, all men having to act all evil, stupid and tough even though you could probably lay them on their back in five minutes, and all women having to behave like cheap whores.
What a horrendously ill-informed post! Hip-Hop, it's innovative use of sampling, and the overall goal of weaving a background aimed to support, but overshadow the vocals is extremely difficult. If you had any idea what successful beat making entailed there is no way you would make some snide, elitist remark about musicality - this being spoken from the perspective of a great lover of Classical music as well as Hip-Hop. Also saying that 'it is aimed at people who cannot succeed in life' is such a stupid assertion that I cannot even begin to think where you conceived of something so offensive! Also that last bit about how there's 'no dismissing' your outrageous 'objections' is spoken exactly like someone who has never listened to anything approaching good Hip-Hop in their entire life.
 

Vault101

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the subjet matter is off putting to alot of people..and yeah it gets old after a while, that said amoung the usual stuff there is gold

 

Hazy992

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The Diabolical Biz said:
Blablahb said:
Naeo said:
It's the same reason people hate on metal (and within the metal community, the hate on the various sub-genres), drone, noise, pop, etc. Because they don't like it and often don't listen to a lot of it so they decide it's all the same and terrible and awful.
Not quite. You can't comment on the musical skill needed to make metal. Neither can you call the surrounding culture low.

Rap and hiphop however, don't take a lot of musical skill to make. You don't need to play any instruments let alone master them, you don't have to understand how multiple melodies and themes combine, you don't need to be able to understand consonant and dissonant tones, etc etc.

And the culture surrounding it is just plain stupid. It is aimed at people who can not succeed in life, and thus exhaust the sparce resources they have on shallow things. And over time it's actually grown to take that for granted.

And quite frankly there's no dismissing those objections either, all men having to act all evil, stupid and tough even though you could probably lay them on their back in five minutes, and all women having to behave like cheap whores.
What a horrendously ill-informed post! Hip-Hop, it's innovative use of sampling, and the overall goal of weaving a background aimed to support, but overshadow the vocals is extremely difficult. If you had any idea what successful beat making entailed there is no way you would make some snide, elitist remark about musicality - this being spoken from the perspective of a great lover of Classical music as well as Hip-Hop. Also saying that 'it is aimed at people who cannot succeed in life' is such a stupid assertion that I cannot even begin to think where you conceived of something so offensive! Also that last bit about how there's 'no dismissing' your outrageous 'objections' is spoken exactly like someone who has never listened to anything approaching good Hip-Hop in their entire life.
I second this. If you really want to see true skill check out the work of Eric B and Rakim or Grandmaster Flash. Then you'll see that there is a skill involved. And if there's no skill to it why don't you give it a go seeing as how its so easy?