Why is there such snobbery towards Hip-Hop?

Foxpack1

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It's the culture behind it, or at least mainstream rap, that basically in order to be cool and successful you have to be 'gangsta', eg: crime, have sex with every fit women you see, etc. For example my friend has recently tried to get in with some 'gangstas' and being the impressionable idiot he is taken up smoking, been beaten up twice and is even more obsessed with sex than he already is, at the point where he has said in the space of a few months that he is in love with fit girl after fit girl. But that could just be the people and not necessarily the music.
 

Mr Somewhere

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I have heard new rap, I have heard old rap. That being said, I haven't heard anything special. Maybe I just can't relate to it, but it's all repetitive, poorly worded noise to me. There's just something about it that irks me I guess.
But hey I have friends who enjoy it, I don't have a problem with it (unless I have to listen to it).
So if you enjoy it, screw everybody else, enjoy it!
 

Vault101

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Folji said:
I like guitars. My experience with hip-hop has led me to understand it lacks guitars. That, and there's sampling. For once I'd like to come across to someone listening to the intro of Under Pressure without Vanilla Ice's voice suddenly kicking in.
oh look..GUITARS!....ok ok they are acoustic but still....:p


 

Raven's Nest

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Hazy992 said:
I've noticed on here that people are saying 'I don't like it because o~f what they rap about, they all rap about the same thing', but this is incredibly naive. People are generalising hip-hop and ignoring all the truly great stuff out there. You wouldn't say all rock lyrics are the same so I don't know why its OK to do so for hip-hop.
Because behind every stereotype is an unconfortable truth... 90% of the hip-hop or rap music considered popular, is usually shallow and unintelligible. Sure hip-hop has produced a few diamonds in the past... You can't say as a genre it plays on its strengths all that well.
 

aashell13

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Well, aside from the maltreatment of women, glorification of violence, preoccupation with money and possessions (an impressive laundry list of faults in itself); a lot of it just sounds like some guy talking in rhythm, which doesn't seem at all like music to me.

Frankly, on a purely subjective level I find most rap irritating to listen to, which kills any motivation I might have had to seek out rap whose themes I agree with.
 

the Dept of Science

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Owyn_Merrilin said:
HardkorSB said:
I think you mean RAP, not HIP-HOP.
That's actually a British distinction. In the US, it's all rap; hip hop is just an outdated term for it, and anyone using it past the mid to late 80's winds up looking too white to live.
In fact, hip-hop is the whole overarching culture, whereas rap is the style of vocals. Musically, hip-hop includes turntablism and beatboxing. If you listen to, say, DJ Shadow, you are listening to hip-hop, but you are not listening to rap, because its entirely intstrumental.

OT: I would say though that one of the reasons why hip-hop gets such a bad stick around these parts is because most of us find it completely unrelatable (ironic for a website called the Escapist). Its music that comes from, and is lyrically focus on the issues of, lower class minorities. There is nothing about Wu Tang Clan rapping about cooking crack which strikes a chord with me on a personal level.
That however, is one of the reasons I really enjoy hip-hop. When I listen primarily to angsty white guys, a bit of hip-hop can provide some welcome relief.
 

naam

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People find a lot of ways to be condescending/hateful to pretty much anything (usually for no good reason), don't pay attention to it too much. For example, I've seen more hate expressed towards Justin Bieber than wars or poverty.
 

Hazy992

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Raven said:
Hazy992 said:
I've noticed on here that people are saying 'I don't like it because o~f what they rap about, they all rap about the same thing', but this is incredibly naive. People are generalising hip-hop and ignoring all the truly great stuff out there. You wouldn't say all rock lyrics are the same so I don't know why its OK to do so for hip-hop.
Because behind every stereotype is an unconfortable truth... 90% of the hip-hop or rap music considered popular, is usually shallow and unintelligible. Sure hip-hop has produced a few diamonds in the past... You can't say as a genre it plays on its strengths all that well.
But again that's just the top 40 stuff. Its not representative of the entire rap scene and to say it is is just unfair
 

Xanadu84

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When naming the rap with problems, you named the artists most people have heard of, the Gangsta Rappers. When naming the stuff you like, you named stuff ive never heard of. That's the problem in a nutshell.

As for mainstream rap, the gangsta rapthat gets the most attention, I have a problem with it. It, by and large, tries to present misogynistic, selfish, excessively violent and psychopathic behavior as a legitimate cultural value of African Americans. If it had the tongue in cheek sense of, say, Saints Row, then it would be fine. But both the song itself and so many of the actual artists, in both word and deed, are proud of behaving like a deranged criminal, and chalk it up to a product of their culture. The KKK has nothing on Gangsta Rap in terms of hurting Black People.

Oh, it is still art. Most everything that doesn't serve a direct purpose in survival or procreation is art. The question is if its good art. And there is definitely legitimate rap: Ive heard some good RZA. But there's something rotten in the bushel, and it's ruining the bunch.
 

Raven's Nest

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Hazy992 said:
Raven said:
Hazy992 said:
I've noticed on here that people are saying 'I don't like it because o~f what they rap about, they all rap about the same thing', but this is incredibly naive. People are generalising hip-hop and ignoring all the truly great stuff out there. You wouldn't say all rock lyrics are the same so I don't know why its OK to do so for hip-hop.
Because behind every stereotype is an unconfortable truth... 90% of the hip-hop or rap music considered popular, is usually shallow and unintelligible. Sure hip-hop has produced a few diamonds in the past... You can't say as a genre it plays on its strengths all that well.
But again that's just the top 40 stuff. Its not representative of the entire rap scene and to say it is is just unfair
Except its not unfair. That's the most popular form of hip-hop... songs about Bitches, ho's, guns and gangstas.
You'll have to square with that I'm afraid. Real artists and fans who know what good music is don't feel insecure about what label their music is given. Just keep supporting the bands and artists you love and promote them and not try pursuade others that not all hip hop is crap. You will never convince the (opposing) mainstream otherwise...
 

Naeo

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Raven said:
Hazy992 said:
I've noticed on here that people are saying 'I don't like it because o~f what they rap about, they all rap about the same thing', but this is incredibly naive. People are generalising hip-hop and ignoring all the truly great stuff out there. You wouldn't say all rock lyrics are the same so I don't know why its OK to do so for hip-hop.
Because behind every stereotype is an unconfortable truth... 90% of the hip-hop or rap music considered popular, is usually shallow and unintelligible. Sure hip-hop has produced a few diamonds in the past... You can't say as a genre it plays on its strengths all that well.
Sorry to bust your bubble, but replace "rap" with "metal" or "rock" and you have something equally true, speaking as a general connoisseur of metal. This is not a problem unique to rap or hip-hop.

The Diabolical Biz said:
Thank you. You just saved me the trouble of posting what was about to be a much, much more caustic post about how "rap culture" is as stupid a phrase as "metal culture" or "music culture" and how Rap just shifts the musical focus to other elements that are just as musically demanding.
 

Hazy992

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Raven said:
Hazy992 said:
Raven said:
Hazy992 said:
I've noticed on here that people are saying 'I don't like it because o~f what they rap about, they all rap about the same thing', but this is incredibly naive. People are generalising hip-hop and ignoring all the truly great stuff out there. You wouldn't say all rock lyrics are the same so I don't know why its OK to do so for hip-hop.
Because behind every stereotype is an unconfortable truth... 90% of the hip-hop or rap music considered popular, is usually shallow and unintelligible. Sure hip-hop has produced a few diamonds in the past... You can't say as a genre it plays on its strengths all that well.
But again that's just the top 40 stuff. Its not representative of the entire rap scene and to say it is is just unfair
Except its not unfair. That's the most popular form of hip-hop... songs about Bitches, ho's, guns and gangstas.
You'll have to square with that I'm afraid. Real artists and fans who know what good music is don't feel insecure about what label their music is given. Just keep supporting the bands and artists you love and promote them and not try pursuade others that not all hip hop is crap. You will never convince the (opposing) mainstream otherwise...
Exactly, its the most POPULAR. It's not the genre's fault that the most popular songs are the worst examples of hip-hop. That's the fault of the record-buying public.
 

Indeterminacy

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Jazoni89 said:
I admittedly am not a huge fan of Hip-Hop, but I can appreciate the genre, because I'm a fan of it's derivative form Trip-Hop. Which is pretty much Hip-hop beats, scratching and samples, but minus the rapping and distastful lyrics that are associated with the genre. Instead replaced with mostly echoic Female vocals, it's really good stuff, and I recommend the genre for people who are not big on the rapping part of Hip-Hop
Hmm. I'd never really looked into Trip-hop as a genre; just kind of thought of its various artists under the chillout umbrella. Seems like there's some homework for me to do here.
 

Raven's Nest

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Naeo said:
Raven said:
Hazy992 said:
I've noticed on here that people are saying 'I don't like it because o~f what they rap about, they all rap about the same thing', but this is incredibly naive. People are generalising hip-hop and ignoring all the truly great stuff out there. You wouldn't say all rock lyrics are the same so I don't know why its OK to do so for hip-hop.
Because behind every stereotype is an unconfortable truth... 90% of the hip-hop or rap music considered popular, is usually shallow and unintelligible. Sure hip-hop has produced a few diamonds in the past... You can't say as a genre it plays on its strengths all that well.
Sorry to bust your bubble, but replace "rap" with "metal" or "rock" and you have something equally true, speaking as a general connoisseur of metal. This is not a problem unique to rap or hip-hop.
Oh there was no bubble to burst. I'm more than acutely aware that this applies to all music forms. I just feel for rap, it is particularly prominant as the more popular styles tend to lack the ability to innovate. See also anything played on Radio One (UK).

T'is why I've given up listening to all but the good 10% (imo) of new music...
 

minuialear

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I think it's a combination of rap/hip-hop being destroyed recently in order to pander to the club scene (who doesn't give a crap about deep issues and just wants music to dirty dance to) and (to bring race into the equation) white suburbia, which historically either didn't feel comfortable embracing a genre of music that used to talk about ghetto life/all the problems blacks faced because of their (primarily white-enabled) second-class conditions, or didn't understand or emphathize with the themes in the music, and therefore found the music boring/repetitive/pointless. If you've ever listened to a song about gangs and wondered "Why would he ever join a gang?"/"Why didn't he just stop being in a gang?," you're guilty of this lack of understanding, for example.

Also because the conditions that hip-hop and rap sprung from are less prevalent (they still exist, obviously, but it's a lot easier to find black kids out of the ghettos, etc), causing new "artists" actually come from suburbia/nice conditions, and therefore have nothing to contribute to the genre. So instead of sticking to those roots, new "artists" try to get rich from making club music instead ("I got all this money and all these rims, sleep with me ho").


 

Hiroshi Mishima

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MrDeckard said:
I think a lot of it comes from the douchbaggatry of most of the artists.

The personas they have usually consist of being in it for the money and trying to look cool, but failing horribly.

In addition, the talent required for that genre is far less than some.
Whenever you hear mainstream hip-hop and rap, this is far and large what anyone looking in is going to see. And unlike what someone else said, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with "elitism" and "snobbery". If you see someone being a complete jerk, you're going to think negatively of them, as would anyone who doesn't know them.

ztara said:
i think, and this is from an outside point of view, that to the uneducated a large amount of the subject matter is the same. Not a huge amount of... versatility. I'm personally put off in a large way by the self glorification. The stance toward women is a big deal too, something i can't really set to one side. Also i like music as much as lyrics and, well i think that a lot of Hip Hop (being so heavily based in lyrical stylings) doesn't satisfy my interests.
The other thing about is pretty much everything ztara's saying. My mother loves rap, but whenever I stop and listen to it, that's the impression I'm getting. I mean, I'm a guy, and I find a lot of that stuff offensive. I'm reminded of an argument I had with someone somewhere the other day about whether rap should really be considered a form of music, since it is largely just someone talking/rhyming with unrelated/"borrowed" music in the background. Granted we're talking about Hip-Hop, and I actually do enjoy a bit of it. It's just a shame that a lot of radio stations seem to think they're synonymous. I usually only find decent stuff on 80's stations and such. I live in California, and I'd say the best station to get good hip-hop (with other stuff) is Magic 92.5.

Sorry, I might've gotten off topic a bit. It's just that this stuff has been on my mind lately since Saints Row 3 came out and I commented to someone that while I liked the music portion of Power, I hated the lyrics. This is the case with quite a lot of this genre, unfortunately.

Oh, and I don't think Hip-hop is talking with music in the background, but maybe I have the wrong idea. I'd consider someone like Will Smith and TLC (both of whom I like) to be hip-hop, where as someone like Eminem (who I hate with a passion, both songs and personality) would definitely be rap.
 

Raven's Nest

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Hazy992 said:
Raven said:
Hazy992 said:
Raven said:
Hazy992 said:
I've noticed on here that people are saying 'I don't like it because o~f what they rap about, they all rap about the same thing', but this is incredibly naive. People are generalising hip-hop and ignoring all the truly great stuff out there. You wouldn't say all rock lyrics are the same so I don't know why its OK to do so for hip-hop.
Because behind every stereotype is an unconfortable truth... 90% of the hip-hop or rap music considered popular, is usually shallow and unintelligible. Sure hip-hop has produced a few diamonds in the past... You can't say as a genre it plays on its strengths all that well.
But again that's just the top 40 stuff. Its not representative of the entire rap scene and to say it is is just unfair
Except its not unfair. That's the most popular form of hip-hop... songs about Bitches, ho's, guns and gangstas.
You'll have to square with that I'm afraid. Real artists and fans who know what good music is don't feel insecure about what label their music is given. Just keep supporting the bands and artists you love and promote them and not try pursuade others that not all hip hop is crap. You will never convince the (opposing) mainstream otherwise...
Exactly, its the most POPULAR. It's not the genre's fault that the most popular songs are the worst examples of hip-hop. That's the fault of the record-buying public.
And its the fault of hip hop artists for choosing to produce what seems like a very large proportion of crap. You can't blame the record buying public for that.
 

Jazoni89

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Indeterminacy said:
Jazoni89 said:
I admittedly am not a huge fan of Hip-Hop, but I can appreciate the genre, because I'm a fan of it's derivative form Trip-Hop. Which is pretty much Hip-hop beats, scratching and samples, but minus the rapping and distastful lyrics that are associated with the genre. Instead replaced with mostly echoic Female vocals, it's really good stuff, and I recommend the genre for people who are not big on the rapping part of Hip-Hop
Hmm. I'd never really looked into Trip-hop as a genre; just kind of thought of its various artists under the chillout umbrella. Seems like there's some homework for me to do here.
Some Trip-Hop artists are classed as Lounge and Chillout that's true, such as Frou Frou (Imogen Heap), and The Supreme Beings of Leisure.

This is a good place to start.

http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/trip+hop

There isn't much on the net for Trip-Hop sadly enough, it's one of those relatively unknown and unappreciated genres of music.