Also, the view towards Hip-Hop that many here seem to partake of is also recognised within the genre, check out this (hilarious) song by one of my favourite artists (who I'm seeing in December!):
As a woman, I DEFINITELY don't want to constantly hear about these fuckers 'bangin' dem hoes'. To me, it's just not appealing whatsoever. I've been told by some of my non-white friends that it's about the beat and not the lyrics, but I am totally unable to separate those two parts of a song. Besides, in my eyes a song with good lyrics and no beat has failed as a song, thus vice versa is also failure in my eyes.Stilkon said:...Pretty much this. I'm starting to get into rap, and I've noticed that it's the likes of Public Enemy and N.W.A.: guys who actually had something to say about their socioeconomic standing. These days rappers all seem to use the same messages (including "I am more famous/richer/tougher/well endowed than you).ztara said:I'm personally put off in a large way by the self glorification. The stance toward women is a big deal too, something i can't really set to one side.
That being said, why isn't there more philosophical rap? I mean like a rap equivalent of Tool, Meshuggah or TesseracT. I'd try it.
I do love me some trip-hop. I think it has a far larger fan base in the UK and europe though.Jazoni89 said:Some trip-hop artists are classed as lounge and chillout that's true, such as Frou Frou (Imogen Heap), and The Supreme Beings of Leisure.Indeterminacy said:Hmm. I'd never really looked into Trip-hop as a genre; just kind of thought of its various artists under the chillout umbrella. Seems like there's some homework for me to do here.Jazoni89 said:I admittedly am not a huge fan of Hip-Hop, but I can appreciate the genre, because I'm a fan of it's derivative form Trip-Hop. Which is pretty much Hip-hop beats, scratching and samples, but minus the rapping and distastful lyrics that are associated with the genre. Instead replaced with mostly echoic Female vocals, it's really good stuff, and I recommend the genre for people who are not big on the rapping part of Hip-Hop
This is a good place to start.
http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/trip+hop
There isn't much on the net for Trip-Hop sadly enough, it's one of those relatively unknown and unappreciated genres of music.
A lot of this comes down to record labels as well. The big labels aren't gonna sign someone who's a bit out there as they're not willing to take the risk. They're gonna sign 50 Cent and Flo Rida as that gets them a quick buck. If record labels gave alternative artists a chance and actually got them some exposure then people's views of hip-hop would be vastly different.Raven said:And its the fault of hip hop artists for choosing to produce what seems like a very large proportion of crap. You can't blame the record buying public for that.Hazy992 said:Exactly, its the most POPULAR. It's not the genre's fault that the most popular songs are the worst examples of hip-hop. That's the fault of the record-buying public.Raven said:Except its not unfair. That's the most popular form of hip-hop... songs about Bitches, ho's, guns and gangstas.Hazy992 said:But again that's just the top 40 stuff. Its not representative of the entire rap scene and to say it is is just unfairRaven said:Because behind every stereotype is an unconfortable truth... 90% of the hip-hop or rap music considered popular, is usually shallow and unintelligible. Sure hip-hop has produced a few diamonds in the past... You can't say as a genre it plays on its strengths all that well.Hazy992 said:I've noticed on here that people are saying 'I don't like it because o~f what they rap about, they all rap about the same thing', but this is incredibly naive. People are generalising hip-hop and ignoring all the truly great stuff out there. You wouldn't say all rock lyrics are the same so I don't know why its OK to do so for hip-hop.
You'll have to square with that I'm afraid. Real artists and fans who know what good music is don't feel insecure about what label their music is given. Just keep supporting the bands and artists you love and promote them and not try pursuade others that not all hip hop is crap. You will never convince the (opposing) mainstream otherwise...
And because its the most popular variety, it's the one which most people will come into contact with, ergo, it's the one they'll most likely form an opinion based on. For much the same reasons that Black Metal is associated with murdering each other and burning churches, hip-hop and rap are associated with bling; hos, 'gangstas' and black people shooting each other.Hazy992 said:*snip*
Exactly, its the most POPULAR. It's not the genre's fault that the most popular songs are the worst examples of hip-hop. That's the fault of the record-buying public.
But not liking it because you simply don't like the fact they don't sing is a legitimate criticsim.trouble_gum said:I generally like bands I listen to have a lead singer who can sing. They don't always have to be classically trained opera singers, and my definition of "sing" is pretty darn loose when it comes to Rock/metal, but rap/hip-hop tends to be spoken rather than sung and...well...I just don't like that. It's irrational, but there you go.
Remind me again who signed 50 Cent to their record label?Hazy992 said:A lot of this comes down to record labels as well. The big labels aren't gonna sign someone who's a bit out there as they're not willing to take the risk. They're gonna sign 50 Cent and Flo Rida as that gets them a quick buck. If record labels gave alternative artists a chance and actually got them some exposure then people's views of hip-hop would be vastly different.Raven said:And its the fault of hip hop artists for choosing to produce what seems like a very large proportion of crap. You can't blame the record buying public for that.Hazy992 said:Exactly, its the most POPULAR. It's not the genre's fault that the most popular songs are the worst examples of hip-hop. That's the fault of the record-buying public.Raven said:Except its not unfair. That's the most popular form of hip-hop... songs about Bitches, ho's, guns and gangstas.Hazy992 said:But again that's just the top 40 stuff. Its not representative of the entire rap scene and to say it is is just unfairRaven said:Because behind every stereotype is an unconfortable truth... 90% of the hip-hop or rap music considered popular, is usually shallow and unintelligible. Sure hip-hop has produced a few diamonds in the past... You can't say as a genre it plays on its strengths all that well.Hazy992 said:I've noticed on here that people are saying 'I don't like it because o~f what they rap about, they all rap about the same thing', but this is incredibly naive. People are generalising hip-hop and ignoring all the truly great stuff out there. You wouldn't say all rock lyrics are the same so I don't know why its OK to do so for hip-hop.
You'll have to square with that I'm afraid. Real artists and fans who know what good music is don't feel insecure about what label their music is given. Just keep supporting the bands and artists you love and promote them and not try pursuade others that not all hip hop is crap. You will never convince the (opposing) mainstream otherwise...
People are dismissive of things that they don't understand. Rap music has musical rules that are not widely understood, even by many fans and educated musicians. It's the same reason why people are dismissive about pop music, opera, sumo wrestling, synchronised swimming, and so forth. To the casual observer who has no real interest, these things often look daft. To someone educated in that context, they take on a lot of meaning. Don't hold your breath waiting for rap to be understood. Metal is a lot older and is only just about to break that cultural barricade. When Ice Cube gets to retirement age you can probably expect some change around about then, but he's the same age as me and I'm not ready to retire yet.Hazy992 said:why are people so dismissive of Hip-Hop?
You would think so, but no.Raven said:I do love me some trip-hop. I think it has a far larger fan base in the UK and europe though.Jazoni89 said:Some trip-hop artists are classed as lounge and chillout that's true, such as Frou Frou (Imogen Heap), and The Supreme Beings of Leisure.Indeterminacy said:Hmm. I'd never really looked into Trip-hop as a genre; just kind of thought of its various artists under the chillout umbrella. Seems like there's some homework for me to do here.Jazoni89 said:I admittedly am not a huge fan of Hip-Hop, but I can appreciate the genre, because I'm a fan of it's derivative form Trip-Hop. Which is pretty much Hip-hop beats, scratching and samples, but minus the rapping and distastful lyrics that are associated with the genre. Instead replaced with mostly echoic Female vocals, it's really good stuff, and I recommend the genre for people who are not big on the rapping part of Hip-Hop
This is a good place to start.
http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/trip+hop
There isn't much on the net for Trip-Hop sadly enough, it's one of those relatively unknown and unappreciated genres of music.
My drummer even toured with Massive Attack back in the 90's. Something he never fails to mention every week lol.