Why is trolling okay but hacking isn't?

[clippen05]

I have never been frustrated at online games before. I've played all manner of multiplayer titles and met a multitude of jerks, but I have never once got some aggravated to the point where I punch a hole in the wall make a ranty thread about it. Until now.

I recently have gotten into CS:GO, specifically competitive CS:GO. For those unfamiliar with the game, I don't mean MLG or anything like that, but 'competitive' is the ranked mode. I am a competitive person, whether it be sports, work, or even videogames; I have no shame in that. I give my 100% to win games no matter what. I understand not everyone feels this way and that's perfectly fine. CS:GO offers millions of casual servers for people not bothered about that sort of stuff. However, given 'competitive' is a ranked mode and that you cannot leave without being penalised, I feel that the people playing on those servers should be expected to give some sort of effort. In the game that set me off to create this stupid, whiny thread, this was not the case. 3 of my 4 teammates, who queued up together and I assume know each other, did not participate for even a single round. They just trolled on their mics and ran into the port-o-potties on Cobblestone, if anyone knows the map. And that's it; their incessant giggling only made things worse. To their credit, they did get a few kills in retaliation when the other team found their hiding spot, but to say that they were actually trying is simply untrue. Considering that they had the bomb 9 out of the 15 rounds we were planting, me and the other helpless player only had 6 potential rounds we could realistically win. I couldn't care less about the loss on my record, but what I do care about is my time. And in a game where, again, you cannot quit, lest you be barred from playing for a while, this is simply unfair. I have to sit there in a game and just wait.

So, why do I bring up hacking in the title, you may ask? Simply because, as far as I know, there is no way to report this, nor is this punishable in the first place. Why is this the case? Hacking leads to an unfair game, so does people not participating. People's time is being unfairly wasted, and that shouldn't be okay in Valve's book. I personally have a lot of time to game at the moment, but if it was during Uni or if I had a job, I might only get to play one or two competitive matches a day, considering how long they take. Why should I have to wait so knobheads can have their 45 minutes of circlejerking and get away with it scott-free? I understand this isn't really a big deal and I'm blowing it out of proportion but, I'm just really aggravated at the moment. So rant over I guess, thoughts on this?

 

[zen5887]

First off I think it's because hacking is infinitely easier to police. Are you using cheats? Yes, okay you're banned. Whereas 'trolling' has some grey area to it. What if they are talking shit and being annoying, but otherwise playing perfectly fine? What if they are jumping around being silly but everybody else in the game is enjoying it? What if somebody is playing to best to their ability but are still getting crushed, and somebody who is really competitive gets mad at them? You see what I mean? "Trolling" isn't really a quantifiable thing, unlike hacking.

There probably should be a way to report shitty behaviour, but unfortunately it's easy to abuse.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Because trolling is a very context sensitive thing, what they considered goofing around you took as trolling, and if you were in on the party you would be the one goofing and someone else would probably want your throat for it, or taking it to even a greater extent a group who is super skilled might want you out because they just can't rely on you.

So it's not really the same as breaking a game defining rule set, but I agree that there must always be tools to manage who you play with, especially if you get locked in with these monkeys. Back in the day this was partially achieved with persistent servers that would form a community which had it's own house rules, and a vote kick options for ass hats who wouldn't listen.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

I really don't like how the word "trolling" has evolved. What ever happened to these people just being annoying fuckheads who only do this shit because there are no consequences? These loser can get hit by a bus and all their loved ones die of cacner and- that riled me up fast.

Anywho.
I suspect there's a few reasons for this.
Being a loser is quite popular in some circles, so all the losers get together to circle-jerk and feel accepted in their community filled with sub-human turds. Since there's such a large portion of these creatures, punishing them would either be too much work, or drive off too many people. Then there's also the fact that it's hard to actually get solid evidence of someone doing this, and most devs and pubs don't give a shit.

I feel for you. I wish I could get more into games without teams, but singleplayer games can't seem to hold my attention enough, and I haven't been able to find any "teamless" games that I like.

 

[lnin0]

This site did a small article about toxic players a little while back. I agree, the publishers need to stop ignoring these types of players and thinking their online communities will just ignore them as well. Many gamers ignore them by leaving the community. As the online and social aspect of games takes a center stage these toxic gamers do have a direct impact on the publisher bottom line, not by the sales they contribute but by the sales they push away.

Forza 5 is a good example. Toxic players are pretty easy to spot but the best recourse you have is a buggy vote to kick option which often crashes your game. The other night some guy was so toxic I went to his Xbox profile to report him. His overall rating was the lowest I have ever seen...in fact I've never seen a gamertag rating that wasn't just default. So obviously many think this guy is toxic and do not want to play with him yet what does all this matter when it amount to a hill of beans in the publishers eyes who do nothing. Turn 10 could easily try to implement a rating system like iRacing and if nothing else segregate multiplayer lobbies so clean, polite drivers never have to race with these toxic people.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

it should be painfully obvious

hacking is cheating, trolling isnt, plus often trolling only affects you if you let the troll get under your skin

 

[tippy2k2]

Frankly, I think they should both be slapped down.

The biggest issue that you're going to run into though is proving intent. Is this player trolling or are they unfamiliar with the game? Is this player trolling or are they not very good? Is this player trolling or did they not realize their mic was on (or that their fan/music was that loud)?

The staff it would take to review all the instances for trolling would be so much work for companies that it isn't cost effective unfortunately. You can "prove" hacking pretty damn quickly. Trolling requires finding intent and that's just going to take longer, which takes up resources.

plus often trolling only affects you if you let the troll get under your skin

I'd have to strongly disagree with that. The OP mentioned it a bit but I will enforce this with a mini-story.

I am an adult. I am 28 years young with a full time job. My time for gaming has drastically been cut down. There are plenty of nights where my sole source of entertainment that night will be a handful of matches in Call of Duty Search & Destroy.

Back in the day, there were people who would use S&D to gain experience really quickly for the game counted every shot against a riot shield as experience, no matter the source. Since in S&D, you can expect (at least) one minute of complete freedom, plenty of people used this to stand in the corner with a buddy and just unload on each others shield. They'd get a ton of points but your team is absolutely crippled now since it's essentially 4v6 in a game where teamwork is absolutely necessary. My precious half hour of free time this day has been absolutely wasted because two little fucktards think that their wants/needs are more important than playing the game.

So no, "trolling only affects you if you let it" is false and a cop-out answer that allows people to get away with that crap.

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

I despise both, but trolls are so ubiquitous that you simply can't stop them all even if the developer allows that option, whereas I can count on my hands the number of times I've seen bona fide hackers ruin a game. Kick a troll off a server and two more will be there the next day. It's a business decision too, publishers have to weigh the loss of toxic customers versus how many people they think will leave if they are trolled one time too many.

Not just in games; where I work we're not supposed to turn anyone away no matter how badly behaved, under the corporate belief that they will tell all of their friends and family not to come to our store in retaliation.

 

[DaWaffledude]

Whats is cs:go,what does it mean to have "the bomb" 9 out of 15 matches. Do the portapotties gkve a hiding spot, or is it just a place to derp around?

Counter-Strike: Global Offensive is an online multiplayer FPS. "The Bomb" is an objective you have to deliver to a location in order to win the round. At the start of each round a player on the bomb-planting team is randomly assigned the bomb, at which point it's their duty to carry it to the objective without dying. The porta-potties (I assume) are not the assigned location, nor a place one would naturally pass through to reach said location. In other words, the only reason a person with the bomb would go there is in fact to "derp around".

 

[DoPo]

Whats is cs:go

Counter-Strike: Global Offensive - a multiplayer shooter and the latest iteration of Counter-Strike. I don't actually know what the difference between it and the previous ones is[footnote]The previous ones being Counter-Strike - the mod for Half-Life, and Counter-Strike: Source - mostly the same but in the Source engine. There is also Counter-Stike: Condition Zero which, if I remember correctly, did not actually suck but it was quite boring. It was CS with a "single player" campaign. So not a lot different than CS with bots.[/footnote] but I would assume the core gameplay is not changed a lot.

what does it mean to have "the bomb" 9 out of 15 matches.

There are (well, officially) three types of maps in CS, as in, maps with different kinds of win objectives. You can always just kill the enemy team, but the objective of the map offers an alternative resolution:

1. Hostage rescue - the counter terrorist team must rescue a set of hostages. Usually, the hostages are in the terrorist base and the rescue point is in the counter terrorist base (or around there, anyway). If the CT team fails to rescue the hostages (the time runs out), the terrorists win.

2. Demolitions - the terrorist team must plant a bomb in one of set locations on the map. It's usually two but sometimes you can have more. If they do so, and the bomb goes off - they win, if the counter terrorist manages to defuse it before that (the default bomb timer is usually 45 seconds, though it may have been changed - you can change it for your game, too) or the terrorist don't plant the bomb until the round timer runs out, then the CT team wins.

3. VIP rescue - one player of the CT team is VIP - they don't get to buy anything - they only start with (and get to use) with a pistol, a knife and armour. The VIP must reach an extraction point for the CT team to win - if the VIP gets killed or the round time runs out, the terrorists win.

4. (obsolete) Escape - the terrorists start with no weapons and can't buy anything. They have to reach the exit to win. Also, there is a weapon cache (or two) they can use to acquire some firepower and fight back against the counter terrorists. If the time runs out and the terrorist haven't escped, the CT team wins. These maps were present wa-a-ay back before version 1.0 but were removed for some reason.

OP is talking about the second scenario - one random (sort of) person on the terrorist team spawns with the bomb, so if they don't give it to somebody else, or they don't plant it, the team is at a really big disadvantage.

Do the portapotties gkve a hiding spot, or is it just a place to derp around?

I don't actually know. It'd be something in that specific map and I've not played it. It's possible to be both.

 

[SkySwimmer]

I usually am not a super good fps player, though I do enjoy a good competition in games or out of them. The easiest solution is to develop a better matchmaking system (CS Go is popular enough to have enough players to do so) for example reporting a player for trolling. And if he really is a troller than the player will soon reach some kind of minimum count of voices for trolling status and soon would only play against other trolls. Trolls shouldn't be kicked or banned, but have their own games not influencing serious players.

 

[Yopaz]

Whats is cs:go,what does it mean to have "the bomb" 9 out of 15 matches. Do the portapotties gkve a hiding spot, or is it just a place to derp around?

CS:GO = Counter strike Global Offensive.

When you play as terrorist on some maps your objective is to plant a bomb on a designated bomb spot (either A or B) and the counter terrorist team's objective is to either prevent the bomb from being planter or to defuse it after it gets planted. You can also win by eliminating the other team, but if the bomb explodes after the last terrorist is dead terrorists still win. The porta-potties is a terrible hiding spot since you can't see the enemy from within and it is possible to kill those inside by spraying at the walls (it's easy to hit the one inside since they can't move).

it should be painfully obvious

hacking is cheating, trolling isnt, plus often trolling only affects you if you let the troll get under your skin

Your rank in CS:GO increases or drops based on the result of the matches you play. If your team sucks your rank may drop. My friend is a highly ranked player and he has experienced dropping in rank both due to crappy team and due to hackers. So both actually affects him in the same way.

OT: As others have stated hacking is a very simple offence. You use a script to give you some sort of advantage, either aim bot, see through walls, increased speed or such. There's software designed to track the use of these and if someone is caught or suspected of using such software then that's easily classified as intentional violation of the rules.

Trolling on the other hand isn't actually covered by the rules and it can't be detected by automatic software since it's strictly human. The number of servers out there makes it impossible to have community managers to watch over servers to weed out the trolls. It would also drive the costs of managing the servers through the roof. It's also difficult to say what's intentional and what's unintentional. If you're low rank then there are a lot of people who don't really care about their rank and just want to have fun. They might just be bad at the game and goof off rather than get pissed off at getting killed all the time.

 

[Cartographer]

Is the drop in rating you'd receive that much worse than the drop in rating for just quitting the game?
If not, then I'd suggest you suck it up and quit the match as you're facing a drop either way and only one forces you to play with people you've suggested you don't enjoy playing with.
If the rating drop for quitting is significantly higher than for losing, then it sucks, I'd suggest you follow the derps to their hiding place and make it a game to try and stay alive longer than them once the other team finds you all. Not ideal, but at least you're doing something other than raging at the screen.

 

[Laughing Man]

Easy really, hacking often takes steps that go out with the bounds of the games parameters. Best case scenario it gives some an advantage that they should have worse case scenario it can actually crash and utterly ruin games. Using a combination of player reporting and policing alongside with server or player stats recorded during play (look at the amount of info something like BFs Battlelog pulls about players abilities) it becomes very easy for someone how is a legit hacker to be banned correctly.

Trolling on the other hand can't be monitored by anyone other than a mod or other players a rep system is great in theory but it is open to all kinds of abuse meaning that legit players could be punished just for being bloody good at the game resulting in jealous opponents down voting them for no good reason.

You also have the fact that hacking is black and white, if you're hacking you are doing something outwith the design of the game ergo legit ban, even if the hack is something daft like the commander hack from BF2 (which gave no real advantage it just ended up being bloody annoying). Trolling on the other hand has all kinds of different layers of grey and what some folk think of as trolling some others may just laugh at.

End of the day it comes down to having a good mod in the server, the problem is that a lot of games don't have or even allow this kind of functionality now which makes it much much harder to police.

 

[ryessknight]

There both awful but trolling is just feelings hurt or annoying at most. Hacking can ruin a game put your info at risk or open whatever your playing on to viruses. Oh and almost all hackers are thiefs and scumbags who will steal your identity and credit cards and ruin your life or just cause needless panic and terror.

 

[Ninmecu]

There both awful but trolling is just feelings hurt or annoying at most. Hacking can ruin a game put your info at risk or open whatever your playing on to viruses. Oh and almost all hackers are thiefs and scumbags who will steal your identity and credit cards and ruin your life or just cause needless panic and terror.

Well, that escalated quickly.

On topic. Trolling, regular old trolling is purely a buthurt reaction, the majority of people who posted this are correct in that regard. However, what transpires in the competitive mode of games has actual consequences, granted they're largely of personal importance(except in some cases.) but it still goes beyond simply being "oh it's just hurt feelings."

 

[clippen05]

Is the drop in rating you'd receive that much worse than the drop in rating for just quitting the game?
If not, then I'd suggest you suck it up and quit the match as you're facing a drop either way and only one forces you to play with people you've suggested you don't enjoy playing with.
If the rating drop for quitting is significantly higher than for losing, then it sucks, I'd suggest you follow the derps to their hiding place and make it a game to try and stay alive longer than them once the other team finds you all. Not ideal, but at least you're doing something other than raging at the screen.

It's a higher penalty towards your rank, but the real problem is that if you quit a 'competitive' game, you cannot play another one for 24 hours.

 

[clippen05]

it should be painfully obvious

hacking is cheating, trolling isnt, plus often trolling only affects you if you let the troll get under your skin

In most cases, trolling does not affect you. In Counter Strike 'Competitive', this is not the case. You cannot leave a game without being punished. (And its not just a penalty to your rank, it is a timer that does not let you play any further games till it is finished, if it was just a harsh rank penalty, I wouldn't care as much. So being trolled like this is a gross waste of time. When Competitive games take up to 45 minutes or longer, I don't like being forced to sit around and wait. Is that unreasonable?