Why it is acceptable to criticize smokers, but not fat people?

[Nisselue]

Let make this perfectly clear: being fat should not be a protected class like race, gender, sexual orientation, or ethnicity. Unlike those categories, being fat is almost always a choice. Only a small percentage of people are overweight because of a legitimate medical condition like hyperthyroidism. And sure, eating disorders with psychological roots exist, but let's be honest: most fat people are fat because of poor food choices and because they lack the willpower and motivation to exercise regularly. They just don't like to be called out on it.

And that is where I decided that your post is completely uninformed. Being fat is NOT mostly a choice. Being fat is occasionally a choice, yes, but in general, and indeed most of the time, there are underlying issues regarding it. For example, two people may eat exactly the same things and have very similar lifestyles, yet one may be fat and the other slim, and that could be down to biological differences between them (not necessarily metabolism either, by the way). And before you start, I have witnessed this first hand through my life, and indeed I live in a house where this is the case - I'm quite slim, while the rest of my family are fairly fat - we all have the same lifestyles, and we eat the same food that my mother buys each week.

So no, being fat isn't always a choice. I know people who are fat and have tried to cut down, who have been on diets and have stuck to them and have made every effort to live a better lifestyle, and they are still fat. Maybe not as fat as before, and they're still quite healthy, but they certainly are still fat. Whereas smoking, on the other hand, is a choice, at least at first. Yes, it is addictive, but nobody has forced you to take that first cigarette, so there was a choice underlying the fact that the person started in the first place. And for me, that is the key difference. That's why I dislike smokers more than fat people.

There has never been so many fat people as it is in this day and age, are you saying the American population alone is going through some sort of humun evolution where American citizens are evolving into homo-humungous? Whereas the rest of the human population is staying at homo-sapiens?

As i said in a previous post:
And by the sheer amount of Americans who are overwheight don't come here and tell me it's genes and illness etcetera. That's like saying every American got sucky genes and they will all die during the next 100 years by eating themself to death.

 

[DracoSuave]

Both parties has a resposibility to do what is right for them, Y N LIKE SMOKE? Stay the Fuck away from smoke. You like smoke? Smoke where you are allowed to smoke follow the law and try to be considerate of others.

I will say this.

You're probably a smoker I'd not mind hanging out with, because you don't seem to be an ass about it.

Many could learn from that.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Easy really. You being fat doesnt effect me.....unless we are both at a buffet. But you smoking is an issue, especially if you are near me in an area that i cant escape. Like a bus, theatre etc. If you want to smoke, great, just not near me.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

A fat person doesn't force bacon down my throat in order for them to eat.

No forcing needed. Mmmmm bacon. But your point was valid. I used to work in a club, coming home and smelling the smoke on me was gross. That and my ex girlfriend used to smoke, kissing a girl that tastes of smoke and mints is awful.

If you want to eat, then eat. If you want to smoke, then smoke. Just dont expect others to accept or appreciate it as we have our opinions on it all.

 

[Abedeus]

Oh boy. I sure don't remember THIS bullshit thread.

To me, fat people are actually a health risk and a major added stress in my day to day life. I'm a paramedic and my job is basically to help those who need help. Now, while I will give -anyone- the finest treatment and security while under my care, be they murderers, child molestors, fat people or smokers... there is a certain amount of mental strain whenever I deal with a patient.

Self-inflicted injuries, diseases or illnesses are... vexing. They're very annoying. Every time I have to go out and give medical care to someone who did these things to themselves, I might be too busy with that person to respond to a call where someone needs help -without- having caused the issue themselves.

Smokers are almost -never- an issue in that regard. When a smoker gets cancer or other lung-related troubles, they are almost never in need of an ambulance to transport them anywhere, or emergency medical aid. Fat people, though? I have long since lost track of how many times I've responded to calls where self-inflicted obesity is the primary cause of an illness, injury or whatever I'm responding to.

These are people I have to give aid to, then -very- often strain my back and risk my own health and safety to carry on a gurney or carry-chair into an ambulance (where they barely fit) down stairs and so on. It's painful, it's very hard and every single time it's a gamble with my own health.

Do these people deserve medical aid? Absofuckinglutely, just like everyone else out there. No one should ever be deprived of medical aid when needed. Do these people deserve to be 'protected' from the same treatment smokers and so on get? No. Not even remotely. Yes, there are some glandular and genetic causes for obesity, but those are extremely rare compared to the amount of horribly obese people there are out there. And even those cases -can be rectified through diet, activity and in some cases, medical treatment!-

Being overly obese IS a choice. Even in the cases of the people who have legitimate medical conditions that makes obesity much more likely. Do they deserve hatespeech or harassment? Absolutely not. Do they deserve to be PROTECTED from pressure and social endeavors to reduce obesity internationally? Hell no.

If you're fat... I'm going to come give you the best damn medical treatment I can give you when you inevitably have serious and acute medical issues as a result of it. You should, however, know that YOU are putting my health at risk with your choice, and you are also costing society massive amounts of money because you have -chosen- to be fat.

It's damn near impossible for us not to resent that fact, no matter how good we are at hiding that we do.

I've been obese for almost entire life. Since 5 I was required to take some third world asthma medication that basically slowed my metabolism to almost nothing. I didn't choose to be fat. It took me 14 years to finally get different allergy and asthma medications and treatments and I finally am at the top of the BMI for "normal" category. Not perfect weight, but not obese anymore.

Fat people cause your cushy job to be a bit more difficult? Aww poor you. You expected you'd be CPRing young E cup blondes all day long?

How the fuck is someone's weight, unless he weighs like 400 pounds or more, a risk for YOUR health? Are you seriously that self-centered?

I guess you yell at bulimics and anorectics too. "It's your choice to be mentally/physically ill! FUCK YOU I WON'T TRY TO SAVE YOU WHEN YOU FAINT!".

Hope you get fired dude, and have to work in a McDonalds serving those who have "chosen" to be fat.

Again - someone being fat NEVER harms other people, unless he tries to sit on them.

People smoking ALWAYS harm other people with second hand smoking.

Let make this perfectly clear: being fat should not be a protected class like race, gender, sexual orientation, or ethnicity. Unlike those categories, being fat is almost always a choice. Only a small percentage of people are overweight because of a legitimate medical condition like hyperthyroidism. And sure, eating disorders with psychological roots exist, but let's be honest: most fat people are fat because of poor food choices and because they lack the willpower and motivation to exercise regularly. They just don't like to be called out on it.

And that is where I decided that your post is completely uninformed. Being fat is NOT mostly a choice. Being fat is occasionally a choice, yes, but in general, and indeed most of the time, there are underlying issues regarding it. For example, two people may eat exactly the same things and have very similar lifestyles, yet one may be fat and the other slim, and that could be down to biological differences between them (not necessarily metabolism either, by the way). And before you start, I have witnessed this first hand through my life, and indeed I live in a house where this is the case - I'm quite slim, while the rest of my family are fairly fat - we all have the same lifestyles, and we eat the same food that my mother buys each week.

So no, being fat isn't always a choice. I know people who are fat and have tried to cut down, who have been on diets and have stuck to them and have made every effort to live a better lifestyle, and they are still fat. Maybe not as fat as before, and they're still quite healthy, but they certainly are still fat. Whereas smoking, on the other hand, is a choice, at least at first. Yes, it is addictive, but nobody has forced you to take that first cigarette, so there was a choice underlying the fact that the person started in the first place. And for me, that is the key difference. That's why I dislike smokers more than fat people.

There has never been so many fat people as it is in this day and age, are you saying the American population alone is going through some sort of humun evolution where American citizens are evolving into homo-humungous? Whereas the rest of the human population is staying at homo-sapiens?

As i said in a previous post:
And by the sheer amount of Americans who are overwheight don't come here and tell me it's genes and illness etcetera. That's like saying every American got sucky genes and they will all die during the next 100 years by eating themself to death.

Because people didn't have money to buy food? If they did, they were fat, trust me. You think how you could recognize a noble or a king? He was fat, or at least had a protruding belly. If you really think times were better than you were lucky to live to 40-50, then go ahead, join the Amish and enjoy the natural lifestyle...

 

[Nisselue]

I will say this.

You're probably a smoker I'd not mind hanging out with, because you don't seem to be an ass about it.

Many could learn from that.

Woho, i got a compliment from Americas hat!!! Awesomecake!! Thank you good sir! :'D

 

[RadiusXd]

because you have to start smoking in the first place. EVERYONE eats, but some do it a little more then they should.

 

[alinos]

Go back to the middle ages, was obesity such a problem then? People must have been suffering from it? Right?

Well considering that in the middle age's being fat was a sign of wealth and power. As you know you could afford food while the majority either starved or ate what they could afford. and it was all natural which is a big point.

these day's it cost's alot more to eat healthy than it does to eat the processed garbage that comes out of McDonald's.

 

[Dastardly]

Hey look, it's someone who's logical!

Sorry, they're a rare find in this thread.

I agree with this point so hard. I know I probably could lose weight if I wanted to, but I don't want to because the effort required is just too high for so little reward. I'm entirely healthy, I'm entirely happy, and I have no need to lose weight.

What Mr Brawndo is doing is criticising all fat people, tarring us all with the same brush. His first post implies not only that being overweight is a choice, but that being overweight automatically makes you a drain on the health service.

You can read the other posts I've made to hear my thoughts about just how much of a choice it is or isn't (short story, I have always been overweight even when eating healthily and exercising every day, just not as overweight) But it was the tone oof superiority in his first post that made me oppose him.

I don't disagree with any of the points he's making (sort of, mostly) I disagree with him as a person.

Really, from reading it again, I think it's just a misunderstanding. It's a heated topic, and we're all bound to read a bit of tone into each other's words.

Brawndo is definitely angry, and he's definitely criticizing... but I don't think so much that he's criticizing "fat people" as much as he is criticizing the fact that society seems so inconsistent. He makes his point by explaining how obesity can also cause public harm (though less direct), and that's perhaps his downfall -- because he focuses so much on that example, it looks less like a pro-smoker rant, and more like an anti-fat-people rant.

He did go to the trouble of making sure he said "most," indicating he realizes there are exceptions. It's just those who are not exceptions that seem to make him angry -- the ones that choose an unhealthy lifestyle, but then blame others for the consequences.

I also think that maybe we, as people, have an issue with the word "choice." We tend to think it can only mean one thing: that we sat down with pad and paper, weighed the pros and cons, and came to a reasoned, conscious decision to do something. But it goes beyond that very narrow view of choice.

The indication is that, for most folks, obesity (not differences in body shape or size) is a result of behavior -- taking in more calories than one expends during the day. That behavior is a result of choices in diet and activity. Some of those choices are influenced by work schedule or budget, sure... but jumping jacks are free, and no law says you have to eat both Pop Tarts if you open the pouch, so it still comes down to choices.

So, for those people, being fat results from choices. Unintended consequences? Sure. But that doesn't make the actions any less a "choice." When someone says, "X is a choice," what they're trying to do is connect the consequence (being overweight, in this case) to the choices that started the domino-like path to that consequence. It's connecting the dots, to show people that it is something they can control... just from further back in the chain of events.

Brawndo seems more angry about the fact that we can criticize other people for choices that lead to unhealthy behaviors, but that certain groups seem to have snagged special protection. I don't think it's a personal crusade against anyone he sees as overweight.

 

[Nathan Atkinson]

I don't know how it is the UK and Australia, but in the United States, smokers have developed a pariah-like status over the years. There are all kinds of anti-smoking campaigns, city ordinances not allowing smoking within X number of feet from a building, etc. But at the same time in the US, it is politically incorrect to criticize those who are overweight and obese. Some might argue: "Second hand smoke harms other people, but it's my choice to eat what I want and this doesn't harm other people."

However, it DOES harm other people, just not in the same way as second-hand smoke. According to a recent study, annual spending on obesity-related diseases is expected to rise by 13-16% in the US by 2030, leading to 2.6% increase in national health spending. Total medical costs associated with treatment of preventable diseases such as diabetes, hypertension, stroke, and coronary heart disease are estimated to increase by $48-66 billion a year.

That means as a fit person, my taxes will be higher and my insurance premiums will go up to fund increased health care costs associated with an increase in obesity. Also, children with fat parents are less likely to have access to healthy foods and are more likely to be overweight themselves. Other people ARE harmed by you being overweight.

But instead of a nationwide effort to promote healthy eating, there is a culture in the United States of being fat and proud of it. Facebook groups promoting concepts like "big women are beautiful" have millions of followers, and criticism of fat people is called "hate speech". Clearly some overweight people don't want to feel guilty about their behavior choices, so they try to make others feel guilty or embarrassed for criticizing them.

Let make this perfectly clear: being fat should not be a protected class like race, gender, sexual orientation, or ethnicity. Unlike those categories, being fat is almost always a choice. Only a small percentage of people are overweight because of a legitimate medical condition like hyperthyroidism. And sure, eating disorders with psychological roots exist, but let's be honest: most fat people are fat because of poor food choices and because they lack the willpower and motivation to exercise regularly. They just don't like to be called out on it.

Harm is equal to cost? The loss of money is not harm, it's unprofitable.

Once again, bodily harm is not equal to loss of profits.

Also, ignorance causes people to believe that eating is the main cause of obesity when it's really a lack of exercise. If everyone exercised for an hour every day, there would be a lot less fat people (burgers or not).

Furthermore, fat isn't yet scientifically proven to cause bad health besides the disorder diabetes, which isn't necessarily related to fat, but eating too much sugar.

Lots of very heavy people have healthy blood pressure. I would know, I'm a medical transcriptionist. I type up medical documents with patient records of height weight pulse and blood pressure all the time.

Being slim is a luxury and a gift that not everyone can afford. Exercise machines/privacy cost money. Eating expensive health food/feeding a family with it is very expensive.

There's a reason a lot of poor people are heavy and it's not because of over-eating. They can't afford it. It's a lack of exercise.

Your entire post can be summed up to this: I'm a smoker and I want everyone to be one too. I need a justification so I blame fat people.

Let me make this perfectly clear; eating is necessary to stay alive. Putting a rolled up piece of paper with some herbs in it, lighting it on fire and inhaling the smoke is not.

You're spoiled and should have your luxuries taken away from you to give you some perspective on just how good you have it, before you go on some silly crusade against fat people...

How is being slim a luxury?!?! Most of the poor people I know are rail thin.
The plain fact is, is that there a lot of people who want to blame their problems on some one/thing else. Eating healthier is actually cheaper than eating fast food every day, and exercise is something that can be done without a gym, in small spaces, in small amounts of time.

Don't know how to eat healthy? Ignorance isn't an excuse, look it up, there are endless sources on how to eat healthier.

Exercise is easy, you can do it without weights or machines or gym memberships or trainers. Just do sit ups, push ups, jogging, if you can find a bar do chin/pull ups, if you have a few extra bucks, buy free weights, jump rope. Don't have time to exercise? Bullshit, you can do a set of one exercise in 5 minutes and do SOME sort of exercise every time you have a short amount of time.

I work a heavy labor job and when I have a break, I EXERCISE. If you have no energy to exercise because of work, that's your own damn fault because if you DID exercise a little bit, you would have INSANE amounts of energy. You don't even have to buy a work out video off day time tv, or an outrageously priced protein shake powder.

Now I understand that some people really can't help it, like people with gland issues, but that's like 1%, and I have trouble believing people when that's their excuse because so many people use it to throw blame away from themself.

To make myself clear, I don't mind fat people, in fact a lot of my friends and family are, but at least they admit it's their fault, and they work hard to remedy it.

Healthy food isn't expensive... you can buy healthy food very cheaply if you avoid that organic bull they try to hock at the market, again ignorance of this is not an excuse.

I'll admit that fat doesn't necessarily = unhealthy, a healthy body has a bit of fat. But while fat may not DIRECTLY cause health problems, it IS a sign that they have a high chance of having them. Now I'm talking walking causing panting fat, not "oh I have a little belly chub" fat.

About the OP trying to make smoking seem less bad... i don't think that's the case here, but frankly it's irrelevant to the fact I stated. Obesity is at the fault of the individual, not the economy, not the government, not their job, but themselves. They need to grow up, admit their mistake and FIX IT! Not whine like little babies about people making fun of poor them.

 

[Abedeus]

because you have to start smoking in the first place. EVERYONE eats, but some do it a little more then they should.

That too. Everyone I know eats, a lot of people eat sweet things. Except not everyone can exercise as well as everyone else. I can't do most of the sports because not only I have asthma and allergy, right now I have a post-surgery arm that pains me to move, and even when I'm lying down. I was on a hellish diet for a month, lost 30 pounds (from 98kg to 84 in a month). But I had to ate 1000 calories AT MOST each day. When normal daily dose for a male is 2,5k and more.

So, in theory, if I could move around and do sports, I could eat a lot more and still get thin. But I can't. Simply can't, it's physically impossible for me to exercise normally.

 

[Frankster]

Like a bus, theatre etc. If you want to smoke, great, just not near me.

If you see a smoker smoking in the theatre or near to loads of people in the bus stop, the problem is less him being a smoker and more having 0 consideration for other people.

Seems to me easily 90% of the anti smoking posts that don't prance on the health problems (we get told about those on the cig packs, don't really need any more additional lectures, every smoker knows what they are getting themselves into) just deal with rude and inconsiderate people.

As for choice, damn right it's our choice to smoke. As it is my choice to drink alcohol, light a fine cigar and do a host of other things that would drive the panties of some squares here in a twist. It just puzzles me why smoking is singled out in particular, cases of smokers lighting up in ye faces without giving a damn not with standing there really is no reason for it, I know i always light up away from people and even go out of my way to move if I see a mother coming near me with her baby.

 

[Abedeus]

snip

All I see here is "YOU DUMB FATASS STOP BEING FAT"

"Being ignorant is no excuse". Great advice. Apply it to yourself.

 

[AnarchistFish]

Because fat people don't project their fat onto you.
In this country, fat people are criticised though.

 

[Redworld13]

@alinos But thats completly beside the point. Its all about choice..... Isnt it?

 

[mikeybuthge]

I just make fun of everyone, regardless of weight or health choices or whatever. Asshole thing to do? Yes, however, no one should be off limits, how is that remotely right?

 

[priestswearseatbelts]

Thin doorways at fast food joints. Ban drive through.

Thin isles in supermarkets.... with the exception being. Fruit and veg isles are 'fat accessible'.

Problem solved. You're all welcome.

*Sure they will send there kids through. However. Eventually the kid will be too fat. If that's an incentive to keep them thin. We still win.

 

[Dastardly]

So no, being fat isn't always a choice. I know people who are fat and have tried to cut down, who have been on diets and have stuck to them and have made every effort to live a better lifestyle, and they are still fat. Maybe not as fat as before, and they're still quite healthy, but they certainly are still fat. Whereas smoking, on the other hand, is a choice, at least at first. Yes, it is addictive, but nobody has forced you to take that first cigarette, so there was a choice underlying the fact that the person started in the first place. And for me, that is the key difference. That's why I dislike smokers more than fat people.

I might caution you to see the double standard behind this viewpoint.

1. If someone "gets bigger" eating the same things and exercising the same amount as someone else, they need to adjust their caloric intake or activity level. No law says everyone in the house has to have "the same lifestyle." If they choose to just continue trying to live like the other person, that is a choice. Point: Choice is always a factor, even if not the only one.

2. Effort does not guarantee results. Correct effort guarantees results. If I push on a wall all day long, 'til I'm sweaty and blue in the fact, I still won't move that wall -- despite my monumental effort. A lot of people have not been taught the correct ways to exercise or diet, so they work really hard... at the wrong things. Point: Trying to change it, but trying incorrectly, is not the same as not being able to change it.

Which brings me to smoking --

You say nobody "forced" them to take that first cigarette. Technically, this is true. But impressionable young people can be led by older, influential people in such a way that is tantamount to "forcing." It's why we have laws about, for instance, age of consent. And a lot of folks get started early on in life.

A lot of people have "tried to quit," but haven't done so in the right ways. Then, when they fail, they solely blame the addiction rather than incorrectly applied effort. They give up control of their reality, either because they don't know the right way to fix it, or the task just looks too hard to them.

There are a lot more similarities between obesity and nicotine addiction than you think. Both include elements of influence and of choice. Both often involve people trying really hard to do things the wrong way, and taking that failure as a sign that they're just "stuck."

As people, we just tend to sympathize with the side we're more familiar with personally. When one of "our people" does it, we only see the influences that nigh-forcibly led them there. When one of "their people" does it, we only see the choices that put them in that predicament.

 

[monkey_man]

I am proud to be (sorta)fat. It's who I am, and even though I'd probably be happier when I would be less bellied, I am not. I have accepted that eating too much has caused my gut to expand. It's something I can control if I want to, but that takes too much effort. And time. Mostly time.
Now smoking is making a stupid decision, and then continuing from that. Being fat is more or less something you decide to be. Wanna have tasty easy food? Fine, but you're gonna be fat Pal! [I also tend to make terrible decisions. Like driving into a ditch because I thought it was the bike-line, or trying to eat soup with one hand, and dropping the bowl. Just two examples from this weekend.]