Why it is acceptable to criticize smokers, but not fat people?

Nieroshai

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JoesshittyOs said:
Food's necessary for survival. Some people just like to indulge a bit more.

There's really no reason to start smoking in the first place except for peer pressure/thinking it makes you look cool.

That's the way I look at it, and I'll even occasionally indulge in a cigar every once in a while.
I'm quoting you, but this applies to the whole thread really.

Who said all cases of obesity are calorie intake-related? What of the possibility that we're getting a lot more sedentary both by choice and the fact that there are more sit-down jobs than ever before? I myself don't want to go on a hike after school and work, I just want to relax with a controller and a cold glass of water. And for the sake of saying, I am overweight, and I am on a low-calorie, small portion diet. I just can't do the gym and just plain don't feel like jogging in the burning Phoenix sun for the few hours I have left over.
 

Axyun

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I don't think we should distinguish the two.

Obesity is a huge problem in the U.S. that costs a lot of money and resources to deal with. No one is forcing 7 cheese burgers and 5 servings of fries down anyone's throat every day. That's a choice they made. You can argue that some people are fat because of genetics, disease, work conditions, etc. but I really doubt that number exceeds the number of people that are affected by 2nd-hand smoking not of their choice.

For a good chunk of the population out there:

You chose to be fat
You can choose not to be fat
You are costing the rest of us a lot of time and energy better spent elsewhere

It can be argued that people with a genetic predisposition for additive behavior are at a disadvantage towards smoking moreso than regular people, but I really doubt 90% of smokers are genetically disadvantaged. And the same applies to the obese. Some of you might have a real out-of-your-hands problem. The bulk of you just need some discipline.
 

BrionJames

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To hell with people against smoking. "I don't want to go out to the clubs because people smoke there and my clothes will smell like smoke!" I can understand prohibiting it on airplanes, hospitals, and public transit, but prohibiting smoking in a bar, is like telling people to not mix alcohol. The two go hand in hand, but you say " Oh! The second hand smoke!" Like the three cocktails and four beers are doing you any good. Since every uptight asshole in america got there way whenever I do smoke in public in a "safe" zone I make sure to blow it towards the nearest sidewalk.
 

Doc Theta Sigma

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Speaking as a fat guy, it is acceptable to criticise me and other fat people. If you have some genuine concern, not to be a complete dickhole. Yes. I'm aware I'm fat. Very aware. I own a mirror. No you aren't going to make me feel bad for being fat.
 

Mercanto

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Well you're clearly an ignoramus. Try reading the book "Fat Shame," you'll learn something. unless your an impervious super human then you are also, in some way, shape, or form a burden on the tax system. I don't like to throw the term biggot around but you seem to fit the descriptor. For many obseity is not a choice, it is often caused by genetic predisposition and body type (ie Ectomorph, mesomorph, and endomorph, you are prbably an ectomorph and assume everyone else is too) if you feel you can lot every single person into one category based one physical feature then frankly, that is biggotry, by definition. Do not bother to respond, for I have no intention of returning to this hateful thread. Its biggotry like this that engenders fat shame, which in turn causes depression in those pre-disposed to weight gain, and depressiona nd anxiety can often lead to greater weight gain and other heretofore mentioned health issues. You ought to be ashamed.

Good day
 

idarkphoenixi

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Strain42 said:
Being fat is not necessarily a persons fault. There are glandular disorders and even genes that can result in a person being heavy regardless of how they eat or if they exercise. So it's not always just because someone is a lazy fat bastard.

Smokers chose to be smokers. It's their own fault no matter what the case except in those rare circumstances where someone was tied to a chair and forced to smoke...and I can't imagine that happens very often.

As horrible as it sounds, I'm not saying we shouldn't criticize fat people (I have a bit of a belly, I admit. But I do eat a balanced diet and occasionally work out) because you bring up some interesting points.

But the reason why we don't put it on the same level as the way we criticize smokers is because they have different origins.

It's like comparing suicide and murder. Sure, the end result is that they're dead. The reasons behind it though can change how a person reacts.

EDIT: After actually reading the final parts of your post, I see you already covered this.

In that case you basically answered your own question.

Yeah pretty much exactly this. Besides, fat people get plenty of ridicule. I'm yet to meet someone overweight who hasn't been made fun of as a result.


Just on a side note: Critisising what someone DOES is a lot different than what someone IS.
 

IronicBeet

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Mercanto said:
Well you're clearly an ignoramus. Try reading the book "Fat Shame," you'll learn something. unless your an impervious super human then you are also, in some way, shape, or form a burden on the tax system. I don't like to throw the term biggot around but you seem to fit the descriptor. For many obseity is not a choice, it is often caused by genetic predisposition and body type (ie Ectomorph, mesomorph, and endomorph, you are prbably an ectomorph and assume everyone else is too) if you feel you can lot every single person into one category based one physical feature then frankly, that is biggotry, by definition. Do not bother to respond, for I have no intention of returning to this hateful thread. Its biggotry like this that engenders fat shame, which in turn causes depression in those pre-disposed to weight gain, and depressiona nd anxiety can often lead to greater weight gain and other heretofore mentioned health issues. You ought to be ashamed.

Good day
"Fat shaming" is mostly used as a term by people who don't want to have to take responsibility for their weight. I've seen people complaining that their doctors were "fat shaming" them because they told them that they were at an unhealthy weight and they needed to lose some. The term is bullshit and it's just a way to make lazy people feel better about not taking care of themselves.
 

Baresark

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Wow, people have posted so many fallacies on this particular thread, I couldn't even get into correcting a fraction of them.

OT: The fact is, smokers choose to smoke. Obese people, by and large, choose to be that way. The idea that it's not there fault is a luxury society has let them have. Just like when a person "wants" to quit smoking and they cannot. Everyone should be given understanding, but understanding cannot be to relieve them of the culpability in their own condition. The majority of weight problems are diet related. You can lose weight and be healthier just by changing your diet. If you throw in some exercise on top of that, you are good to go. But diet is the main component.

Smoking is unique, American society loves the sin but hates the sinner. Tax revenues taken in from smokers pay for all manners of student health care and programs that are health related. The affordable insurance that is offered to a family to cover their child while they are attending school is payed for by that same money. So much tax revenues are taken in by tobacco taxes that it would change a great many underlying things in our society.
 

ShenCS

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Not sure if it's been said yet (Christ you people love your walls), but on a more basic social level it's mostly because some people are uncontrollably overweight i.e. have a glandular problem or what have you and that for the most part you don't want to campaign against that and look like the bad guy when smokers unambiguously chose to be stupid.
 

elvor0

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As a smoker in the UK I sort of find the whole second hand smoke complaint a bit weak to be honest, I mean yeah you can get bad effects from second hand smoke, I'm not disputing that, but unless you're constantly inside with smokers (unlikely given that we're not allowed to smoke inside anymore) you're really not going to have any issues.

When I'm walking about outside for my day to day business I'll pass very few people smoking, which lasts for all about 3 seconds as you walk past them. Bus shelters? They generally move away from other people (as I do) to go smoke, as I respect and understand why you wouldn't want me puffing away in an enclosed area, as it is a horrible when you don't smoke.

But if you don't live with someone who smokes and the only second hand smoke you're getting is from walking past people in the street, I really don't think it's an issue. The tiny amount of toxic smoke you're inhaling is nowhere near enough to cause any problems unless you're asthmatic, and even then it would only be coughing, the human lungs are slightly more resilient than the die hard anti second hand smoke campaigners would have you think.

ShenCS said:
Not sure if it's been said yet (Christ you people love your walls), but on a more basic social level it's mostly because some people are uncontrollably overweight i.e. have a glandular problem or what have you and that for the most part you don't want to campaign against that and look like the bad guy when smokers unambiguously chose to be stupid.
I wouldn't exactly say the glandular problem is really an issue, the percentage of people with an ACTUAL glandular problem or hypothyroidism is so incredibly small that its not exactly fair to say that its bad to just say no to campaigning against obesity, never mind the fact that in most cases of hypothyroidism, an increase of iodine in your diet can work wonders. A lot of people will ride the glandular problem wagon just to get a free ride, granted you may one day encounter someone with hypothyroidism but that shouldn't excuse the rest of the obese population.
 

Cat Cloud

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You have good points, but the way fat people are treated in the US depends on the region. Being fat in some areas is seen as being normal. In other areas, not so much. But it is a problem our country is struggling with.

Rather than fat people being 'protected' like an ethnic group, race, etc, it seems to be a political correctness/ politeness issue. No one likes their faults being pointed out. And this fault especially, because the solutions relies on changing one's daily routine, the way one lives. Eating bad/unhealthy food and not exercising is becoming part of American culture. Our lives are not balanced.

Also, I thought the whole "big women are beautiful" campaign was promoting women/women models that aren't anorexic. It's more of a media/culture thing than promoting fat people as a group. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

kouriichi

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Do you want to know why? Because some people CANT be skinny.

Ive exercised, ate healthy, cut may daily intake of calories in half, and tried diet pills. I busted my ass, sweat clean through shirts and ruined perfectly good jogging shoes trying to lose weight.

But ive never gone under 230lbs.

>.>; Then people like you, who believe "im skinny so everyone else can be", come along and say being fat is a life choice for everyone.

Well guess what. Smoking is a life choice, being fat is not. Smoking can LITERALLY harm others, and the person who smokes. Being fat doesnt truly effect anyone but the person himself.

And the idea that a fat parent is more likely to have a fat child? Yeah, because there was something to cause the parent to be fat to begin with. Its literally impossible for me to go under 235lbs unless i go get liposuction once every 6 months to physically suck the weight off of me.

Now i understand not all fat people have this problem. But being fat is being different. Put on 150lbs and then talk to me about not being different from the general population >.>;

Sorry if this comes off as a RAAAAAGE post, but people like this piss me off, with good reason.
 

Anthony Wells

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Brawndo said:
Strain42 said:
Smokers chose to be smokers. It's their own fault no matter what the case except in those rare circumstances where someone was tied to a chair and forced to smoke...and I can't imagine that happens very often.
I don't smoke, but almost all of my family friends who do claim they started because their parents smoked, or because of intense peer pressure. To me this sounds a lot like a fat person claiming he eats a lot because he is stressed at work, or because her home environment makes her feel depressed.

Although there may be environmental influences, choosing to light up and choosing to go to McDonald's are the same thing in my book. If anything, I empathize more with smokers because science shows that nicotine addiction is much stronger than any psychological addiction to food.

FoolKiller said:
But here is a better question for you. What do you do for someone who is fat because they had a poor upbringing? Do they not require and deserve help losing/dealing with the weight?
I am all for helping people lose weight. I don't propose a campaign of making fun of fat people. But in order to be helped, you have to admit that you have a problem and be willing to change. This means some overweight and obese people need to stop acting like they are a protected class of citizens like racial minorities, and parents of fat children need to stop getting upset when the school nurse tells their children they need to stop drinking soda and start exercising.



im fat. i admit im fat. am i proud of it? no...do i plan on doing something abou it? eventually... but unfortunately healthy food is FAR more expensive than non healthy food and i dont have that kind of income. i dont have income at all right now. anyways i do plan on doing something about it and i find that being fat is not good. but i will never...and i repeat NEVER stop drinking soda. then again i also agree that people need to stop getting upset when someone says the truth.
 

Okard

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I don't think comparing smokers to overweight people is fair, smoking is an act that causes unhealthiness where as being fat is the result(usually) of an unhealthy lifestyle. This would be like comparing lung cancer to an unhealthy diet... regardless of how someone became fat if you launch a campaign of hate against them you'll be giving off a vibe that you're going after a victim because they are already dealing with the consequences of their choices.

If you were to compare the root issues, unhealthy diet and lifestyle vs smoking then there are many campaigns fighting it, I've seen President Obama on TV talking about how important it is to get out and play, eat fruit and all that jazz.
 

Anthony Wells

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michael87cn said:
This will be my one post that isn't a reply to someone else in this thread.

My outlook on people is: I don't care what they are or what they do. I do not judge people or criticize.

Why? No one is perfect. Everyone has faults. Everyone has addictions, obsessions, some kind of problem they deal with that keeps them from being perfect.

Be it lust, envy, anger, depression, substance abuse, over-eating, over-anything, the list can go on.

It's easy to be one of the bullies or the jerks that points at someone else and says "you have a problem". It takes a bigger person to look at themselves instead and realize their own faults, and then give others some slack.


i respect you for this good sir. i tip my hat to you and wish you well in life for this outlook as very few in the world have it and i wish more would. i unfortunately can not say that i have this outlook myself...though i do step back and look at my own faults i also criticize those who have the same faults




Edit: didnt mean to quote that first one...huh interesting it didnt delete when i tried to delete it



edit 2: and now it did delete....wierd
 

cheese_wizington

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It's probably because fat people are a majority, and smokers are a minority. The majority will always pick on the minority.
 

2fish

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Glass Joe the Champ said:
Unless there's such thing as "second-hand eating", I'm pretty sure there's a difference.
Thank you I now have a name for what happens to the people who are stuck to the fat lady on the bus who shovels food into her mouth and onto those poor bastards that sit next to her.

The making fun is a social pressure. Due to the anti-smoking stuff it is ok to pressure people to stop.

Given time I think it will become ok to pressure fat/skinny people (based on which side wins) to conform to the societal standards.

I personally don't care unless the person is directly interfering with me or others around me.
 

isometry

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Brawndo said:
I don't know how it is the UK and Australia, but in the United States, smokers have developed a pariah-like status over the years.
I've observed this trend as well and I agree mistreatment and disrespect of smokers is out of hand. Nicotine is an interesting and good drug. It's a stimulant (like coffee), an appetite suppressant (something Americans need), and it the addictive and pleasurable release of dopamine (like alcohol and like fatty foods).

So nicotine is arguably a better drug than alcohol or fat, it's just that chronic smoking damages the lungs. On the other hand, smoking does not ravage the liver like alcohol or the kidneys like fat (all three are pretty bad for the heart).

Anyway, part of the problem is that today's kids are misinformed and they say things like "the only reason to smoke is peer pressure", ignoring that nicotine is a drug. It's good for dieting, and as an alternate stimulate to caffeine. It's also a good way to reward oneself, as an alcoholic might drink after work and a fatty might celebrate with a big meal, we shouldn't be so harsh on the person content with puffing on tobacco on those occasions.