Why it is acceptable to criticize smokers, but not fat people?

Brawndo

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I don't know how it is the UK and Australia, but in the United States, smokers have developed a pariah-like status over the years. There are all kinds of anti-smoking campaigns, city ordinances not allowing smoking within X number of feet from a building, etc. But at the same time in the US, it is politically incorrect to criticize those who are overweight and obese. Some might argue: "Second hand smoke harms other people, but it's my choice to eat what I want and this doesn't harm other people."

However, it DOES harm other people, just not in the same way as second-hand smoke. According to a recent study, annual spending on obesity-related diseases is expected to rise by 13-16% in the US by 2030, leading to 2.6% increase in national health spending. Total medical costs associated with treatment of preventable diseases such as diabetes, hypertension, stroke, and coronary heart disease are estimated to increase by $48-66 billion a year.

That means as a fit person, my taxes will be higher and my insurance premiums will go up to fund increased health care costs associated with an increase in obesity. Also, children with fat parents are less likely to have access to healthy foods and are more likely to be overweight themselves. Other people ARE harmed by you being overweight.

But instead of a nationwide effort to promote healthy eating, there is a culture in the United States of being fat and proud of it. Facebook groups promoting concepts like "big women are beautiful" have millions of followers, and criticism of fat people is called "hate speech". Clearly some overweight people don't want to feel guilty about their behavior choices, so they try to make others feel guilty or embarrassed for criticizing them.

Let make this perfectly clear: being fat should not be a protected class like race, gender, sexual orientation, or ethnicity. Unlike those categories, being fat is almost always a choice. Only a small percentage of people are overweight because of a legitimate medical condition like hyperthyroidism. And sure, eating disorders with psychological roots exist, but let's be honest: most fat people are fat because of poor food choices and because they lack the willpower and motivation to exercise regularly. They just don't like to be called out on it.
 

Strain42

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Being fat is not necessarily a persons fault. There are glandular disorders and even genes that can result in a person being heavy regardless of how they eat or if they exercise. So it's not always just because someone is a lazy fat bastard.

Smokers chose to be smokers. It's their own fault no matter what the case except in those rare circumstances where someone was tied to a chair and forced to smoke...and I can't imagine that happens very often.

As horrible as it sounds, I'm not saying we shouldn't criticize fat people (I have a bit of a belly, I admit. But I do eat a balanced diet and occasionally work out) because you bring up some interesting points.

But the reason why we don't put it on the same level as the way we criticize smokers is because they have different origins.

It's like comparing suicide and murder. Sure, the end result is that they're dead. The reasons behind it though can change how a person reacts.

EDIT: After actually reading the final parts of your post, I see you already covered this.

In that case you basically answered your own question.
 

GamerKT

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It usually takes longer for someone to stop being fat than to stop smoking. Also, smoke stinks. The most a fat person could inconvenience another is by taking up extra space or food.
 

madkill

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Until they make a law which bans fat people from going into fast-food restaurants then they will mostly only be criticised in playgrounds.

And there is a nationwide effort to promote healthy eating, didn't you hear about the Pizza being a vegetable?


Edit: Fat people also tend to stink, they sweat more often.
Smoking and Fat people sweating more often can both be combated with sprays, just neither can be bothered.
 

BeerTent

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In my eyes, criticizing both is completely unacceptable.

I'm 23, skinny as a rail/non-smoker and I know, as people, we're better than that.
 

FoolKiller

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Personally I agree with you. The question is where and how would you draw the line. Smoking is an easy one.

But here is a better question for you. What do you do for someone who is fat because they had a poor upbringing? Do they not require and deserve help losing/dealing with the weight?
 

Brawndo

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Strain42 said:
Smokers chose to be smokers. It's their own fault no matter what the case except in those rare circumstances where someone was tied to a chair and forced to smoke...and I can't imagine that happens very often.
I don't smoke, but almost all of my family friends who do claim they started because their parents smoked, or because of intense peer pressure. To me this sounds a lot like a fat person claiming he eats a lot because he is stressed at work, or because her home environment makes her feel depressed.

Although there may be environmental influences, choosing to light up and choosing to go to McDonald's are the same thing in my book. If anything, I empathize more with smokers because science shows that nicotine addiction is much stronger than any psychological addiction to food.

FoolKiller said:
But here is a better question for you. What do you do for someone who is fat because they had a poor upbringing? Do they not require and deserve help losing/dealing with the weight?
I am all for helping people lose weight. I don't propose a campaign of making fun of fat people. But in order to be helped, you have to admit that you have a problem and be willing to change. This means some overweight and obese people need to stop acting like they are a protected class of citizens like racial minorities, and parents of fat children need to stop getting upset when the school nurse tells their children they need to stop drinking soda and start exercising.
 

Helmholtz Watson

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I think that of pc nonsense, its just another case of oversensitivity. Granted I don't support bulling little fat kids, I don't think it is helping them by stating that its ok to be fat (assuming they don't have a medical issue).
 

Bobic

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Yes, but you forgot to factor in how all the money spent on burgers stimulates the economy. Yeah, think about that.
 

MrLumber

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I criticize both, while both personal decisions they are both very poor, near-sighted decisions. But hey, if people don't feel they should survive for very long its not my place to tell them otherwise.

As an addendum, I'm unsure why being fat isn't something to criticize, especially when it paints our country in such a poor image.

P.S. The most likely reason that the way things are like this is because more people are overweight than there are people who smoke, and most of the nation is overweight in general.
 

JRCB

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Also, fast food is cheap. So, if you're working and getting paid a low income, and fast food is the only feasible way to eat in terms of time and money, then it's really not fair to judge them and blame them.

However, I do say Fuck The System for making it this way.
 
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Brawndo said:
Let make this perfectly clear: being fat should not be a protected class like race, gender, sexual orientation, or ethnicity. Unlike those categories, being fat is almost always a choice. Only a small percentage of people are overweight because of a legitimate medical condition like hyperthyroidism. And sure, eating disorders with psychological roots exist, but let's be honest: most fat people are fat because they make poor eating choices and lack the willpower and motivation to exercise regularly. They just don't like to be called out on it.
Or they don't have the money to go to the gym. Or they work a full time job and don't have the time to go for a run after or before work. Or it's cheaper for them to buy junk food (which is still cheaper than vegetables and healthy food, by quite a considerable difference) or they live a lifestyle which is already full and active, and really why should they bother taking away an activity they enjoy for one that they don't? Or they aren't actually that unhealthy, despite being overweight, and as long as they're comfortable within their own skin what the fuck do you have to do with their lifestyle? Or the fact that their being fat doesn't affect other people, whereas someone who smokes in the vicinity of other people is directly causing them harm as well. Or you're using fat to refer to anyone who could be a few pounds overwieght to morbidly obese, and acting as if that's the same thing.

You know what? I'm just going to assume you're the sort of truly annoying moralist who has decided that his own way of life is so much better than everyone else's for some reason, and now wants to pontificate about it. I don't smoke, drink or do drugs (and I'm willing to bet you do at least one of the above) and I don't get preachy about how other people should live their life.

I'm overweight as well. By a reasonable margin, but my blod pressure and cholesterol were fine as of six weeks ago when I had a checkup. Would I like to lose a few pounds? Sure, but I'm not going to make a big deal out of it. I enjoy eating crisps, I like the occasional chocolate bar, and I don't want to drag myself to a gym or round the streets with everyone staring at me just so I can fit into what some other people think is 'normal.' I have a girlfriend with whom I have a very active sex life. She too is overweight and neither of us are put off by my overweightness, nor have any of my previous girlfriends. None of my friends judge me on my weight, and in fact some of them lament my ability to gain weight, since they are close to health problems by being too thin, despite putting away food and not exercising (granted they do drugs but still)

When I was at uni I was much thinner, but now I have a full time job, and I still enjoy enjoying myself instead of doing stuff I hate. No one that I know or care about the opinion of judges me by my weight, and I'm old enough to realise that they are the ones who matter, no one else. I'm not hurting you, and I'm not asking for special treatment.

Choice is an odd word, and one you should think about very carefully before using. I have never in my life made a conscious decision to be overweight, whereas you must have made a conscious decision to be 'fit' as you call it. So really you're the one who made the choice, I just ignored it because I'm happy the way I am. And why can't you accept that?
 

Extravagance

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You can criticise smokers for affecting other people if and only if they affect other people. If its in the comfort of your own home/other designated area, then they should be left alone. There is alot of very controlling anti-smoking stuff happening here in the UK, above and beyond pretty much any other health concern like drinking or obesity. They recently tried to pass a law forcing unhealthy foods to either carry massive health warnings or increase their level of..healthiness. Didn't pass though.

As to the smell: I smoke a pipe, it smells loverly as most tobacco is flavoured. Coffee caramel <3

If you're going to critcise people for unhealthy habits, it needs to be across the board. Smokers, drinkers (of any amount) and unhealthy eaters. That or give over and just let people be.
 

AlAaraaf74

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I only criticize people who complain.

"Why can't I smoke wherever I want?"
-Because you smell horrid.
"I wish I was skinny..."
-Then stop eating and exercize.
 

SoldierC4

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I tolerate people who smoke or are fat. The line I draw is when they are smoking in public. Being fat in public doesn't physically hurt someone. Smoking however does, quite a bit, and it smells really bad to, much worse then the smell of extra perspiration on a fat person.

Also, you're arguing that increased obesity rates are going to increase healthcare costs. This may be true, but at the same time, what does smoking do? It causes people who smoke to have side effects, like lung cancer, that costs loads of money to treat. Money isn't even the really important thing here, smoking around others constantly directly hurts them in a way money can't always cure. It takes MUCH longer being fat around someone (you know, like being raised by parents for 18yrs) before it causes you to start eating more, and even then like you said, obesity is usually a choice so what's stopping those people who were influenced by others from choosing to eat healthier.
 

Torrasque

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BeerTent said:
In my eyes, criticizing both is completely unacceptable.

I'm 23, skinny as a rail/non-smoker and I know, as people, we're better than that.
This.

It is easier to criticize smokers because there is more of a conscious choosing to become a smoker, than there is choosing to be fat. There are also many factors that go into whether a person is fat or not (genes, health issues, psychology, job, etc.), compared to the factors that go into determining if someone is a smoker or not.
You also have to take into consideration that the media has been riding a 6 (or so) year long "LOSE THAT FAT, GET HEALTHY" buzz, and while it may seem worse to insult a fat person rather than a smoking person, they still get A LOT of social pressure about their weight.

Translation: because it is easier to pick on what makes a smoker, a smoker, than it is to pick on what makes a fat person, fat.
 

Brawndo

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MelasZepheos said:
Brawndo said:
Let make this perfectly clear: being fat should not be a protected class like race, gender, sexual orientation, or ethnicity. Unlike those categories, being fat is almost always a choice. Only a small percentage of people are overweight because of a legitimate medical condition like hyperthyroidism. And sure, eating disorders with psychological roots exist, but let's be honest: most fat people are fat because they make poor eating choices and lack the willpower and motivation to exercise regularly. They just don't like to be called out on it.
Or the fact that their being fat doesn't affect other people, whereas someone who smokes in the vicinity of other people is directly causing them harm as well. Or you're using fat to refer to anyone who could be a few pounds overwieght to morbidly obese, and acting as if that's the same thing.
You clearly didn't read my entire post - you just got incensed by the title and responded as such. I wrote how if you develop diabetes or hypertension because of your weight problem, all of the rest of society has to pay more in increased health care costs. So because you choose to buy crisps instead of veggies, my taxes and insurance premiums go up in the long run. True story no matter which way you spin it.

And I do differentiate between a few pounds overweight and morbidly obese - which one is more likely to have serious medical issues? If being fat had no impact on society, then I wouldn't care, no matter how much I disagree with it personally.

You took so much offense at me suggests to you to be healthier that you'd think I was ripping on you for not smoking weed or not drinking. What it really comes down to is that many overweight people take OFFENSE to being admonished to lead a lifestyle that is healthier for them, their families, and society as a whole.
 

huser

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Compelling data, here's more.

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/

The long and short of it, tobacco products as of 2000-2004 cost $193 Billion, with $96 billion in health care costs.

Second hand smoke costs 10 BILLION.

So while smoking might cost less than preventable diseases related to obesity, 10 BILLION dollars lost because complete bystanders had health issues sorta makes smokers villains even if we are simply using cold equations to quantify even a SINGLE person dying because some a-hole decides to go through a pack a day.

And of course the fallacy that every health related issue of diseases associated with obesity would disappear if everyone was super fit. Heart attacks, strokes, and diabetes would obviously still occur even among that hypothetical cohort. Much less prevalent? Sure.

EDIT - As a data point supporting that supposition the CDC puts the total cost as of 2008, "medical costs associated with obesity were estimated at $147 billion."

And I normally go on the side of addressing increasing obesity, but smokers DO as a group suck for their poor health choices.