Why it is acceptable to criticize smokers, but not fat people?

lizards

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aside from the fact that being fat is genetically related (which im sure has been said to death already) you become fat (assuming their is no genetic componets in it) by eating, which is something YOU NEED TO DO, as opposed to smoking which has no reason or purpose other than making you unhealthy
 

Something Amyss

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Other people are affected by everything you do. However, I've never suffered a fatal illness due to second hand cheeseburger.
 

McNinja

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JoesshittyOs said:
Food's necessary for survival. Some people just like to indulge a bit more.

There's really no reason to start smoking in the first place except for peer pressure/thinking it makes you look cool.

That's the way I look at it, and I'll even occasionally indulge in a cigar every once in a while.
This. The sad thing is, people are so weak-minded that bowing to peer pressure is second nature to them (in my area, at least). I go to a community college where about 80-90% of the student population smokes. Every single one who i have talked to has claimed to start smoking simply because everyone else was doing it. Maybe if people weren't such pussies and could figure out that cancer is indeed bad, smoking wouldn't be such a huge problem. I know people on this forum smoke, but my statement still stands. Smoking offers ZERO benefits other than perhaps getting cancer in a dozen or so years.
 

Flailing Escapist

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To answer the title of this thread I would say its because smoking has more obvious second hand effects than just "being fat".

But from my own personal experience so far in college we can only smoke in certain designated areas. So that throws the whole second hand smoke argument out the window. And I have had some of the best, most insightful and funny conversations in these smoking corners. Granted that could be just because we're at a college. But I've had plently of great conversations kick up with somebody who asked for a smoke outside of school. Note that I don't smoke just for conversation, though, I smoke because I'm selfish and smoking tastes great. I'm actually going to go out for a smoke now, just a second.

Ahhhh and on the other side its probably just me (I'm kidding its never just me) but I've noticed a lot of overweight people are really uppity the last few years. My last few years in high school and in the last few years of college it seems like overweight people feel like everybody else owes them something their noses stuck up in the air and such. It feels like because they're overweight (and even talking about fat in the presence of a fat person is a hate speech) they can't be talked against. Kinda like how you (yes you, the white kid in the back) can't say or do anything against black people. Not that I'm saying we shouldn't all just get along anyhow but I digress, it could just be Colorado.

But I smoke a pack or two a week so I'm an asshole or something.
 

The Lugz

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i agree! all people are disgusting, not just smokers
er,.. wait where were you going with this?

pretty-much anyone / anything makes your life worse you can rationalize it anyway you like but the reason you cant have everything you want with diamond studded platinum gilding is because everybody sucks on the worlds resources

it's nothing new, i assure you!

if you really want to make fat people healthier go invent fast food with no calories

because you cant make them smarter, trust me i've tried
 

Lady Larunai

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Wait.. since when are fat people not criticised? if anything its worse than for smokers as smokers are addicts and that makes it "hard" to give up..

Im australian, but i know you have a show in america called dr oz which is dedicated to telling people they are fat and should lose weight.. there are anti smoking and pro weight loss campaigns all over the television, 90% of infomercials are aimed at people who are overweight
 

Dags90

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RatRace123 said:
But to the point, as others have said. Second hand smoke has been shown to cause damage to non smokers while second hand fat does not have the same effect. I guess since the only person a fat person is hurting is themselves, we don't tend to look at it the same way.
Actually, having fat friends is a risk factor for obesity.[footnote]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/wirecopy/8501241/Obesity-is-contagious-as-fat-friends-make-you-feel-normal.html[/footnote]

They're not sure whether it's because you start to normalize obesity or the more direct result of "if all your friends are fatties, it's hard to find someone to hike with", etc.

Also, all of these genes discovered thus far only have minor roles in obesity, and large numbers of obese people are missing them.
 

Jaime_Wolf

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Brawndo said:
Let make this perfectly clear: being fat should not be a protected class like race, gender, sexual orientation, or ethnicity. Unlike those categories, being fat is almost always a choice. Only a small percentage of people are overweight because of a legitimate medical condition like hyperthyroidism. And sure, eating disorders with psychological roots exist, but let's be honest: most fat people are fat because of poor food choices and because they lack the willpower and motivation to exercise regularly. They just don't like to be called out on it.
To begin, about two years ago, I would have agreed with you entirely. I even got into a prolonged argument on these very forums about the issue around the time I started coming here.

But there are some significant problems with the logic here:
First, the number of people who are overweight because of medical conditions is significantly higher than people regularly assume.
Second, while there are numerous conditions associated with being overweight, a lot of people who are overweight are more or less perfectly healthy.
Third, why shouldn't people who lack willpower and motivation be a "protected" class?

Regarding the second, the parallel to other protected classes is easy to draw - it's unfair to treat all overweight people badly based on the fact that some overweight people are especially unhealthy. Compare smoking, which is universally a health problem.

But the third is the big one. The only justification I can see for the third is the assumption that willpower and motivation will magically increase if these people are emotionally tortured. As it turns out, that is not what happens.

In many ways, it relies on a very strange disconnect. If you have an "eating disorder" that results in obesity, how is that ontologically distinct from "lacking willpower and motivation" that results in obesity? Why is one somehow justified while the other is not? It makes no sense and is indicative of the weird secret dualism people cleave to that suggests that you can separate psychological function from some magical ineffable "willpower". People are not responsible for psychological disorders, but somehow they are responsible for a lack of willpower? How on earth is a lack of willpower or motivation not the very "psychological roots" you're discussing?

I don't think anyone is arguing that they should be a "protected" class in the sense that we shouldn't try to reduce obesity. I think people are suggesting that the best way to do this is to treat those people with respect and try to figure out real solutions rather than hoping that we can somehow pressure them into losing weight.
 

Versuvius

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In response to OP: It's not right to critisize anyone doing anything, it's right to critisize them for harming others, IF they are. And as a fat person i will tell you to bite me and i will look like what i please and if my tax money pays for treatment years down the line because i'm such a terrible chubby person then so be it.

Anything else?
 

DracoSuave

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Other people are affected by everything you do. However, I've never suffered a fatal illness due to second hand cheeseburger.
I'd wager you've never suffered a fatal illness at all.

Unless you have, in which case THEN WHO WAS PHONE?
 

Gaiseric

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As a fat guy, I think it is acceptable to criticize me and other overweight people for some of the same reasons it is acceptable to criticize smokers. It is unhealthy and dangerous.
 

Nieroshai

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Problem. No one I've ever talked to ever thought being fat was healthy and acceptable. TONS of people I know think smoking is fine. Your concern is misplaced.
 

SanguineScale

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DarkRyter said:
I don't know about you, but I criticize fat people all the time.

Probably out of some primal fear that if they wished to, they could eat me.
Half of my immediate family is overweight, and towers over me, while I remain a solid 5'7" 138 pounds.

This fear is my everyday reality T_T. I ALWAYS make sure our Cheetos supply remains plentiful lest I end up as another clog in their systems....
 

midknight129

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Glass Joe the Champ said:
Unless there's such thing as "second-hand eating", I'm pretty sure there's a difference.
Of course there is. There's significant social pressure for one to eat if others around them are also eating. It's part of the social evolution that kept us alive for millions of years and is now slowly backfiring and killing us. Only the people capable of adapting to a new set of criteria and overriding old evolutionary holdovers will survive... or we'll blow ourselves up with nukes first. Either way, the Earth doesn't care... and that's why I'm moving to Mars first chance I get.
 

thiosk

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Ha, what planet are you from?

Fat people are criticized all the time. Don't you remember the playground? Also, its less likely for a an ugly/tubby/ugly tubby to move up in their profession compared to a thinner, prettier folk.

Also, while yes, there are glandular disorders that influence body type, that is not the crux of the obesity related health problem.
 

IronicBeet

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GamerKT said:
It usually takes longer for someone to stop being fat than to stop smoking. Also, smoke stinks. The most a fat person could inconvenience another is by taking up extra space or food.
It's a lot harder for a fat person not to stink than a person of normal weight.

I agree with you, OP. I don't think that someone should be made fun of for being fat if they're actively trying to lose weight, but the people who just eat and eat and eat are bringing it upon themselves. I get that it can be a coping mechanism (As it was for me), but it's still possible to control what you eat. I've lost 15 pounds over the last three months. It fucking sucked, and it still sucks, but I feel a lot better overall knowing that I'm actually making progress towards becoming a really healthy individual.
 

SanguineScale

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DracoSuave said:
I'd wager you've never suffered a fatal illness at all.

Unless you have, in which case THEN WHO WAS PHONE?
I guess you could say I WAS PHONE now, since I just about now died laughing....