Why it is acceptable to criticize smokers, but not fat people?

Jegsimmons

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how about this:

Don't criticize either. if they want to be fat, then all power to them. If they want to smoke, suck that sucker down.

the fact that we ridicule either of these people for exercising a right shows just how fucked up people are now a days.

I'm neither fat or a smoker, but damn it they never hurt me!
and if anyone says "second hand smoke" i say, get the fuck over it. That shit is still being debated, and you have enough common sense to get the hell out of the room.
 

Togs

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Its always mildly shocking to see the sheer amount of vehemence some members of the Escapist have towards smoking and smokers, you'd think smokers killed their families or something.
 

CarlMin

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Smoking harms the environment. That's about the only problem I have with smokers.
 

lacktheknack

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shadowsoul222 said:
lacktheknack said:
Laxman9292 said:
Ariyura said:
legendp said:
lacktheknack said:
I'm a poor college student with too much homework and a slow metabolism.

Healthy food is more than twice as expensive as trashy food. I can't afford to go to a gym, nor do I have four hours a week to go. I'm gaining weight because all my exercise comes from running between classes.

What do, OP? What do?
Admitedly I do not know you, or the reasons you are overweight. I do not want to sound rude in any way but couldn't you just eat less?
Eating less is not always the answer, actually its good to eat more frequently.
No matter how busy you say you are you have at least four hours a week to exercise, and you don't even need four hours, just as much as you can manage. Hell I know a girl who is taking 28 credit hours and still works out 3 times a week. And I know since you're a college kid you have free access to a gym and most likely located a pretty short distance from said gym.

Not trying to blame you but just pointing out that any amount of exercise you can fitg in is beneficial even if it's just a few push ups before bed or maybe a spin of the exercise bike. You can even bring your notes to look over while you ride if you are that overloaded.

Plus working out gives you a great natural high from releasing endorphins and knowing that you are taking care of your body.
Sorry, but I'm in a Comp Sci program. It's physically impossible to type out assignments, keep a clear and streamlined head, and exercise at the same time. Your laptop, brain, or training equipment will break.

No one's more upset about my lack of exercise than me, but seeing how I work, attend six classes, and put in fifty hours of homework a week and STILL turn in unfinished assignments, I simply don't have time. Period. End of. Unless I remove the half-hour to hour of time I spend on the Escapist/Cracked every day, but I dare you to disconnect yourself from the internet entirely minus assignments. I'd snap.

As for push-ups before bed... I can't do push-ups...
Holy fuck, 50 hours of homework a week? How the hell do you have that much? I personally work 40 a week, go to 5 classes and do the hours of homework I have to do (most of the time >.>), and my homework hours don't nearly reach those levels. I'm curious as to what field you are in and what gives you that much homework.
I'm in general computing science, and it's quite simple: I suck.

For every fifteen minutes of coding I actually do, I spend, on average, an hour and a half debugging. (For instance, it took me three and a half hours to implement a getopt() parser. Do you know how surreal it is to have your 60-line program return 460 errors?)
 

Batou667

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RivFader86 said:
Ha! That's awesome.

I don't hate fat people, or smokers. Being a fatty or a chimney does not make you an inherently bad person who deserves to be mocked or ridiculed. I do think, however, that both fat people and smokers have poor self-control and - much like alcoholics, or crack-addicts, or people who compulsively stab themselves in the eye with a fork - have NOBODY to blame for their conditions but themselves and don't merit a single ounce of sympathy. Help? Sure. Pity? Maybe. But not sympathy.

Worst of all are the kind of people who defend their fatness as not only NOT their fault and completely unrelated to their diet and lifestyle, but also elevate it to the status of a LIFESTYLE. I seriously wish I was making this up. They form communities, develop their own pseudo-scientific justifications and terminology, and convince themselves that they are a helpless minority who are bravely battling against the prejudices of a world that is clinging to an out-moded notion of thin-privilege and the "unscientific misconception" that obesity isn't normal or healthy.

For example, this is one of the most well-known "fat acceptance" blogs. Try to read some of the articles without face-palming.

http://www.danceswithfat.wordpress.com

The smoking equivalent would be a "cancer acceptance movement" who spends their time trying to prove that it's possible to live a full and healthy life with lung cancer. It's pure madness.
 

BiscuitTrouser

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poleboy said:
GamerKT said:
It usually takes longer for someone to stop being fat than to stop smoking. Also, smoke stinks. The most a fat person could inconvenience another is by taking up extra space or food.
Because never in the history of man has there been a food shortage or a problem with overpopulation, right?
The world can comfortably hold 9 billion with plenty of room and already produces enough food for more than that. Trouble is no ones sending that food to africa and the corrupt governments dont want them to have it anyway. I hate this misconception. Its just wrong, distribution is the issue NOT amount.

People who damage their body willingly are idiots, but then they would say im an idiot for not enjoying loads of tastey foods. Equally valid point. Best not to jugde anyone really, as long as it doesnt hurt me. Smelling shitty smoke is worse than having a few fat people around. And im 100% ok with smokers outside where fresh air means their smoke has 0 effect on me.
 

Straitjacketeering

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Because, Smokers are put out because they are doing something that can easily be quit, (Buy an electronic Cig.) Fat people aren't told to stop because Fit people can look at them and laugh and laugh, and if said fat persons self esteem isn't dragging the floor as well as their stomach they'll do something if not anything aboot it.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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I'm an ex-smoker, I -loved- smoking. I wasn't addicted, I enjoyed the taste. I mean I was addicted, but it was something I did when I sat down with a good book. A good book, a glass of nice brandy and a pouch of tobacco. I fucking loved it. I had to quit because of certain medications I was taking, but rest assured ... if I wasn't on meds you better believe I'd be puffing away.

And yes, you get treated as a pariah. I think it is absolutely ridiculous.

As a person who has spent 95% of their lives living in congested cities ... do you know how much fat people impinge upon shopping, getting to work, or having a nice plane trip?

I was all for charging fat people more for airfares because why is it I have to pay 100 bucks for being over my luggage when someone who weighs as much as me AND my luggage doesn't have to pay diddly squat?

And they talk about medical costs associated with smoking ... in Japan, everybody fucking smokes. EVERYBODY. Like blast furnaces they smoke. And yet everybody lives to be 150 (slight exaggeration, but they do live a very long time on average). Obese people? Not a chance in Hell ... even the kiss of the Devil can't avert all the degenerative effects that come from excessive calories and fat.

I have a theory ... you see everybody who diers of a coronary who was a smoker, they blame cigarettes. Doesn't matter that the guy might have been 26 stone of human mass ... nope ... cigarettes killed him. I'm willing to bet that all the 'untimely deaths' from cigarettes under the age of 60 in the Western World the grand majority of them were overweight. I'm also willing to bet dollars to donuts that it's your diet, not the 10 or 15 cigarettes a day you smoke that lay you under.

I mean look at all the allergies, the diseases, the cancers that accrue in obesity cases or the children of obese parents. Then look at the piddly few that cigarettes are known to cause (and even then, completely cultural specific, like in Japan ... people don't die of coronaries even oif they are pack a day smokers).

I'm willing to bet that being obese is 10 x worse for you than being a heavy smoker. But no ... if you're a fat guy who smokes, doctors in the Western World will say that it is the smoking to be blamed if you die before 60.
 

rutger5000

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Strain42 said:
Being fat is not necessarily a persons fault. There are glandular disorders and even genes that can result in a person being heavy regardless of how they eat or if they exercise. So it's not always just because someone is a lazy fat bastard.

Smokers chose to be smokers. It's their own fault no matter what the case except in those rare circumstances where someone was tied to a chair and forced to smoke...and I can't imagine that happens very often.

As horrible as it sounds, I'm not saying we shouldn't criticize fat people (I have a bit of a belly, I admit. But I do eat a balanced diet and occasionally work out) because you bring up some interesting points.

But the reason why we don't put it on the same level as the way we criticize smokers is because they have different origins.

It's like comparing suicide and murder. Sure, the end result is that they're dead. The reasons behind it though can change how a person reacts.

EDIT: After actually reading the final parts of your post, I see you already covered this.

I'm no expert in genetics and the development of a child. But I can very well imagine the situation of a mother in labour smoking, wouldn't this make the child much more vulnerable to a nictonine addiction? Then it's just a very small step away from getting addicted to smoking. Sure in that situation it would still be a bit of a choice if the child starts smoking, but I don't see it why it would be more of a choice then when a fat person becomes fat because of his genes.

In that case you basically answered your own question.
 

Something Amyss

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DracoSuave said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
Other people are affected by everything you do. However, I've never suffered a fatal illness due to second hand cheeseburger.
I'd wager you've never suffered a fatal illness at all.

Unless you have, in which case THEN WHO WAS PHONE?
Allow me to introduce myself: Captain Jack Harkness.
 

NinjaCatStudios

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Because criticizing fat people is judgemental, there is glandular problems.
It takes extra effort not to become fat again after you lose some weight, It takes effort to stop smoking, but to not smoke again after you've given it up properly it takes no effort basicly.

And because smoking is anti-social, I can't really talk to people who are smoking, because the smell of smoke makes me choke, I'm asthmatic.
 

Kroxile

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because every single smoker made the decision to be ignorant and waste their money on shit that will only kill them while not every fat person is fat because they are gluttonous swine.. so there you have it
 

Xanadu84

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If you choose to smoke, you will likely become addicted. This is well known. It is obvious that a person is a smoker. The only way to become a smoker is to choose to smoke in spite of the obvious risks. If you don't smoke, you have made a healthier decision then them.

However, everyone eats. Maybe a person has a bad diet. Unless its Atkins. Or if they have a glandular problem. Oh, and some people eat horribly, but they arn't fat. And some people are fat but put a lot of effort into not being fat. And everyone has a slightly different view of fat. And to counteract aneorexia and unrealistic beauty standards, various degrees of overweight get re-branded as sexy. We would have to break down a persons every meal to know if they are making bad choices in there diet. Actually when we do break down that meal, nutritionists will disagree on the details. Is that fat persons diet better then mine, but my genetics are better? I don't know. What about excersize? Do they excersize? CAN they excersize? Does a person deserve a reprieve from our criticism if his knee surgery prevents him from running? How many pounds leeway does that give him though, because he should still be eating well. Oh and what about muscle? Is that person fat and slovenly, or is he just a big hulking beast of a person. Oh and are clothes concealing that fat? Can I criticize a person for having a terrible diet when I have a diet that isn't as bad, but could use some work? Cause everyone has some bad days in terms of health. Can we control how fat we are? Well, kind of yes, kind of no. and another thing...

Smoking is a very black and white issue. They are or arn't smokers. Make of that what you will. But being, "Fat" has endless interpretations and angles to judge.
 

Jegsimmons

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ravensheart18 said:
Jegsimmons said:
if anyone says "second hand smoke" i say, get the fuck over it. That shit is still being debated, and you have enough common sense to get the hell out of the room.
Even if there is no proof of getting cancer from 2nd hand smoke, there is no doubt that smokers smell, set of allergies, and cause breathing difficulties for others.

As for "getting the hell out of the room" that's not always possible.
smell, set off allergies, and cause breathing difficulties, huh?

So do kids, and the stress from raising kids. (stay home dads home a higher risk of heart attacks)
my dad smoked for most of the first part of my life and i'm fine, no lung problems, no allergic reactions, nothing.

but still, minor health issues to others aside, its a choice they should have, and they should not be ashamed of it.
 

Sentox6

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BeerTent said:
No, I used to think like that too. It's not something I like to admit either.

One of us must have been left behind when we grew up.
Probably the one making snide implications about maturity.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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NinjaCatStudios said:
Because criticizing fat people is judgemental, there is glandular problems/
If youIt takes extra effort not to become fat again after you lose some weight, It takes effort to stop smoking, but to not smoke again after you've given it up properly takes no effert basicly
That's a load of crap. Both of them are discipline issues ... if you're going to treat one group of people like shit, then you should treat both of them like shit. Splitting hairs is fun.

"You're bad, you're a smoker." -> "I enjoy smoking"

"Why don't you lose weight?" -> "It's a glandular issue, man!"

I'll accept that certain people have different metabolisms in the same way some people have addictive personalities. But all you're doing is making excuses for one group of people whilst choosing to forget that both of them are failures of self discipline.

Do you think a person just ends up obese? That one day they are fine, and they eat veggies and lean meat, and go for a nice 1 hour walk ... and suddenly the next morning they are 16+ stone? Hell, if we actually look at it from the point of addiction, then shouldn't smokers be treated KINDER than obese people.... given it is far more easier, far more quicker, to become a smoker than it is an obese individual?

To be an obese individual usually takes years of systematic abuse, whereas to become a smoker takes only a couple of friendly get togethers in highschool and a bit of peer pressure. Or Hell, maybe because the grand number of smokers were like me and -enjoyed- smoking for its own sake.
 

qeinar

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Living in norway it seems like smoking is quite acceptable. Or atleast where i come from, haven't heard anyone criticize someone hard for smoking. Most smokers knows it's bad for them and don't really need to be criticized for it, as with fat people eating at mcdonalds.

Not saying you shouldn't be called out on both though, a fat person should not criticize someone that's smoking because it's unhealthy.

Side note: people should watch the penn & teller: bullshit! episode on second-hand smoking. :/ both my parents have smoked trough my upbringing and i don't have lung cancer or breathing problems, I also do not smoke.