Why it is acceptable to criticize smokers, but not fat people?

s0p0g

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Hyperthyroidism doesn't make you fat, it makes you thinner, as it further stimulates your metabolism.
there are several genes one can carry that increase the risk of being overweight, and the more of them you carry and are active, the more likely you are to be overweight.

no i am not saying that it's not for a big part their own fault, but depending on your genes you could have a tough time holding your weight, especially considering all the shit companies want you to that's being advertised everywhere - and if ads had no impact on somebody's behaviour at all, companies wouldn't pour so much money into it, eh?
also, unhealthy food comes cheaper than fresh vegetables and fruits, and considering that america sort of invented the working poor...

yes, i know that one can do quite a lot to keep your genes in check, healthy diet, sports, lifestyle etc.

long story short, what i am saying is this: by blaming it on one single source or cause you're just as wrong as overweight people who blame it on the industry, or genes, or whatever. there are lots of factors contributing to that.

i still do completely agree that being proud of a misshapen body that will subtly harm others, not as directly and physically like smoking, shouldn't be some sort of "culture", and a state of being that has to be protected from criticism by oh-so-mean meanybags.
being overweight IS unhealthy, it's a bad example for your children, but it's oh so comfortable to blame others for it or raising it to some deviant cult, isn't it?

Brawndo said:
Other people ARE harmed by you being overweight.

But instead of a nationwide effort to promote healthy eating, there is a culture in the United States of being fat and proud of it. [...]
Let make this perfectly clear: being fat should not be a protected class like race, gender, sexual orientation, or ethnicity. Unlike those categories, being fat is almost always a choice. Only a small percentage of people are overweight because of a legitimate medical condition like hyperthyroidism.
post scriptum: come to think about it: here in Germany we have lots of programs and campaigns supporting and advertising a healthy diet, but people still become more overweight; maybe this works as well as sexual education at school; it's more and more ever younger girls getting pregnant and giving birth
weird.
no right move there?
 

qeinar

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Xanadu84 said:
If you choose to smoke, you will likely become addicted. This is well known. It is obvious that a person is a smoker. The only way to become a smoker is to choose to smoke in spite of the obvious risks. If you don't smoke, you have made a healthier decision then them.

However, everyone eats. Maybe a person has a bad diet. Unless its Atkins. Or if they have a glandular problem. Oh, and some people eat horribly, but they arn't fat. And some people are fat but put a lot of effort into not being fat. And everyone has a slightly different view of fat. And to counteract aneorexia and unrealistic beauty standards, various degrees of overweight get re-branded as sexy. We would have to break down a persons every meal to know if they are making bad choices in there diet. Actually when we do break down that meal, nutritionists will disagree on the details. Is that fat persons diet better then mine, but my genetics are better? I don't know. What about excersize? Do they excersize? CAN they excersize? Does a person deserve a reprieve from our criticism if his knee surgery prevents him from running? How many pounds leeway does that give him though, because he should still be eating well. Oh and what about muscle? Is that person fat and slovenly, or is he just a big hulking beast of a person. Oh and are clothes concealing that fat? Can I criticize a person for having a terrible diet when I have a diet that isn't as bad, but could use some work? Cause everyone has some bad days in terms of health. Can we control how fat we are? Well, kind of yes, kind of no. and another thing...

Smoking is a very black and white issue. They are or arn't smokers. Make of that what you will. But being, "Fat" has endless interpretations and angles to judge.
You do not get morbidly obese by not making a bad food choice multiple times a week, or maybe even every day for years. You also do not get addicted to smoking ater 1 cigarette, or even smoking for a whole week. When we're discussing fat people that cost a country money we're not just talking pudgy, we're talking verry overweight, and that can't just be blamed on genetics.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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qeinar said:
Living in norway it seems like smoking is quite acceptable. Or atleast where i come from, haven't heard anyone criticize someone hard for smoking. Most smokers knows it's bad for them and don't really need to be criticized for it, as with fat people eating at mcdonalds.

Not saying you shouldn't be called out on both though, a fat person should not criticize someone that's smoking because it's unhealthy.

Side note: people should watch the penn & teller: bullshit! episode on second-hand smoking. :/ both my parents have smoked trough my upbringing and i don't have lung cancer or breathing problems, I also do not smoke.
Yay for logic! I love you #.#

 

JaredXE

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I do not make fun of smokers because they have taken pretty much everything that whiney non-smokers have thrown at them in stride. Cigarettes are a legal product, and a responsible adult should be able to purchase them and use them as he pleases. Yet they are vilified as often being one step above child molestors. "Excuse me! Do you mind?! You're giving me cancer! You're not allowed to smoke here, it's a bar. Only healthy activities go on in bars!". And they accept this and just go on not really bothering other people. They KNOW that they are harming themselves, and they don't really complain about it.

Fat people though.....most of them whine. That airlines charge more ('cause you're fat), that booths in restaurants are hard to squeeze in ('cause you're fat), that depictions of fat people in media depict them as lazy ('cause you are*). They complain about everything and do nothing about it. Obesity is not a disease folks, it's a choice. You can't catch obesity from anyone. I don't care if you eat yourself to death or diabeties, just don't complain that it's not your fault, that you have a condition (a condition called "Unable to put fork down"), and that other people should accomodate you because of your "Disease". Stop spending so much on unhealthy food, put the handicap placard away and walk the extra couple of parking spaces!


*Yes, I understand that there are a couple of glandular isssues that cause uncontrolable weight gain. These issues affect approx. 2% of fat people. The OTHER 98% are fucking lazy and deserve all the ridicule you can muster. I don't believe in bullying someone for something they can't control, like race or sexual identity, but you can certainly control not going to fucking McDonalds.
 

orangeban

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While we should promote healthy eating, exercise, non-smoking, etc. for God's sake don't criticize people for smoking or being fat. Don't judge people because they live their life differently than you, that's just douchey. Don't be a heatlh zealot.
 

Spolin

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Jegsimmons said:
and if anyone says "second hand smoke" i say, get the fuck over it. That shit is still being debated, and you have enough common sense to get the hell out of the room.
If by "still being debated" you mean there is scientific consensus that it is bad for your health, then yes.

Besides, not everyone can just "get the hell out of the room" when someone decides to light up next to them, not everyone has either the mobility to move or mental capacity to know they should move.
 

Stu35

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Well, my opinion on this whole thing is very simple, and based on where my tax money goes:

Every pack of Cigarettes I buy is ultimately paying for any medical requirements I may have in later life as a result of my Smoking (the tax on cigarettes in the United Kingdom is huge).

Fat people are doing no such thing - they pay VAT on their food, and thats about it.


So, yeah, in my opinion - the unhealthy obese are worse than smokers in a nation where the majority of the population is on the National Health Service. It's a simplistic one, and I accept the whole situation is more complicated than that, but if they're going to try and stop me smoking in my car (i.e. My Private Property), I'm going to rail against those I have to look at when I'm in public (i.e. the fat bastards that permeate our society and whom I'm forced to look at every single day).
 

Zantos

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Your argument isn't just against fat people, it can be applied to anyone that wilfully engages in harmful behaviour. I'm slightly curious now on figures for alcoholics. Then there's the drug users, maybe less money in your taxes for healthcare, but it'll add a chunk for police. Alcoholics that then drink drive are probably going to put up your car insurance, hell, they don't even need to be full on alcoholics to make bad decisions. I'm starting to wonder how this puzzle all fits together now.

Slightly more on topic, I'm clearly not seeing the criticising of smokers in the same way you are. Aside from the warnings on packs that have become nothing more than collectables smoking is generally accepted as just another thing people do. Ah, student life in Yorkshire, where people really aren't that nosey.
 

Yopaz

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Jun 3, 2009
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elvor0 said:
Yopaz said:
elvor0 said:
Yopaz said:
Where have you been the last decade? Have you ever seen shows like The Biggest Loser, Fat Camp, Super size vs Super skinny and a million other shows with the same message? The message media is sending out is "Fat people, you are disgusting and you need to lose weight". Back in the old days it was accepted to treat Jews or black people like they're less, now we treat fat people and smokers like they're less without seeing the connection.
Being Jewish or Black isn't a choice though is it? Stop being sensationalist, you sound like fox news.

Obese people and smokers cost money and cause strain on the health system (well at least in countries with a COMMUNIST HEALTH SYSTEM!!!1!11! anyway). Being black or jewish isn't one day going to cause you to be in hospital taking up time and resources for someone who needs it.

Just for the record I smoke, so it doesn't sound like I'm having a go at smokers for taking up hospital space, I'm just pointing it out. But I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, besides I'm not sure I want to live past 70 anyway -_- Saying that, I pay my taxes, which WILL have gone to some obese person or smoker, so when it's my turn I'm having that damn bed.
I wont go as far as saying that being fat is a choice. I can agree with you that my original post was poorly phrased though. However am I wrong? Now you're a smoker so strangers will judge you for it and think less of you for that thing alone. They will judge fat people and think they are lazy. Now I am neither smoking nor fat, but I don't think we should think less of anyone for any reason. Disagree?
Now you might think of me as a sensationalist here, but do not fucking compare me to Fox News cause then I will compare you to the people that believe what Fox News says. I didn't say we're being just as bad as the Nazis or anything down the line that's a meaning you put into my words just the same any frequent Fox News viewer does when he watches anything that isn't aired by Fox News. I am saying it's a part of being human to discriminate against others. If you don't think it's a bad thing to discriminate then I got another ground to compare you to Fox News.
Surely me stating you're like Fox news would make the complete opposite of someone who believes fox news no?
Again you jump on to one thing from my post and focus only on that rather than the context of it, which is what Fox News does and what Fox News expect their viewers do to. You have done so twice now. You also seem to be for discrimination so yeah, you criticize Fox News then you proceed to do EXACTLY what Fox News does. You also didn't bother to answer any questions in my post nor address anything of substance I wrote. You jumped right to calling me a sensationalist and telling me I'm wrong without providing any weight to prove my line of thoughts wrong. That doesn't make you the opposite of Fox News. That makes you close acquaintances with slightly different beliefs.
 

Xanadu84

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You do not get morbidly obese by not making a bad food choice multiple times a week, or maybe even every day for years. You also do not get addicted to smoking after 1 cigarette, or even smoking for a whole week. When we're discussing fat people that cost a country money we're not just talking pudgy, we're talking very overweight, and that can't just be blamed on genetics.[/quote]

There are medical conditions that make you extremely fat even if you are responsible. And peoples view of what constitutes, "Very overweight" varies. A person may be prone towards being fat, but eat right and excersize, and a person with very high standards might lable them as obese. By some measure, a person with nearly 0 fat but tons of muscle counts as obese.

On the other hand, if you smoke only 1 cigareete, you wouldn't be a smoker. But if you keep smoking just 1 cigarette, you will probably get addicted, and become a smoker who smokes a lot more then 1 cigarette.

Sure, overeating and not excersizing is a problem. But measuring when a person has behaved irresponsibly in their health is much harder when your dealing with food and excersize. The factors are much more vauge, varied, subjective and without a standard measurement. And even being slightly pudgy has an effect on health, and by extension health care costs.
 

pwnzerstick

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Bobic said:
Yes, but you forgot to factor in how all the money spent on burgers stimulates the economy. Yeah, think about that.
Well hey have you seen the prices at places like whole foods, if they spent their money on healthy food, then they would be stimulating the economy even more!
 

someonehairy-ish

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What?
I don't think I've met anyone who demonises smokers (although some don't like the habit) but I have definately seen a lot of people take the piss out of fat people.
 

cikame

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Large people can be good people too, but smokers tend to carry with them a sort of give a s*** attitude i can't deal with and i'm not the only one.

I can't criticize my friends for being large cus they do more excersize and eat less than me, but show me evidence that any part of smoking is necessary.
 

willsham45

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The simplest way is fat people are supposidly only endangering there own lives, Smoking is supposisly effect those arround you with second hand stuff.

Other factors probally being more people LOATH smoking and smokers and fat people are meh.

Alcohol could be another

I think it is all too much on all levels. If an establishment does not want you to smoke then you should not. If they do not care then let them. There is soo much mind washing and manipulation on smoking it is rediculus. To the point one person thought I was weird because I did not give a fuss about smoking and did not smoke myself ei Only smokers like smoking because of the addiction.

We all know smoking is not the healthiest thing you can do, but its not the worced thing. there are too many variables to show smoking having a direct impact. Radiation levels are rising, the air is not exactly fresh, and who knows that is added to our food and water.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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Spolin said:
Jegsimmons said:
and if anyone says "second hand smoke" i say, get the fuck over it. That shit is still being debated, and you have enough common sense to get the hell out of the room.
If by "still being debated" you mean there is scientific consensus that it is bad for your health, then yes.

Besides, not everyone can just "get the hell out of the room" when someone decides to light up next to them, not everyone has either the mobility to move or mental capacity to know they should move.
Scientific consensus eh?

That's funny, because what I read is that there is no significant connection between environmental tobacco smoke and mortality rates. That even if you work in a tobacco smoke heavy environment that you still only have 1/100000 of dying from tobacco smoke related causes. But what do I know? I've only read journals and studies about it.

Maybe there is some secret consensus that states, inequivocably, that tobacco smoke is out to get all of you lovely people on those oh so high horses ^_^
 

orangeban

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bahumat42 said:
T-004 said:
Heres the thing.

In the UK approx 90% of the cost of a pack of cigarettes is tax, so in essence we pay for our medical care through the purchase of our poison.

As far as I am aware fat people don't have to pay more tax on food.
you are correct
and really fatty foods should be taxed.
And that may be mean to those healthy enough to enjoy them, but it would discourage the eating culture we have today.
Recently David Cameron chose not to tax fatty foods. Why? Because he understands that the main market for fatty foods are poor people, since fatty foods are cheaper. He didn't want to introduce a tax that mainly affected poor people. That is why fatty foods aren't taxed.
 

The Cheshire

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I'm a slim smoker, I look so sexy freezing in the cold trying to light my fag outside the bar...

Anyway, no, I don't think it's fair. But not for fat people either! Just leave them the hell alone, for fucks sake, if I want to smoke and eat fat it's my fucking choice. But yes, as far as hypocrisy goes, if there is a tax for tobacco there should be a tax for fatty food, this is a point I have always done whenever one of the non-smoking whiney little annoying maggots comes to me whining about how I am forcing a tumour of lung cancer onto him. I am not, but hey, if I could, I would! One self-righteous moralist asshole less.

orangeban said:
Recently David Cameron chose not to tax fatty foods. Why? Because he understands that the main market for fatty foods are poor people, since fatty foods are cheaper. He didn't want to introduce a tax that mainly affected poor people. That is why fatty foods aren't taxed.
Now, we all know the British diet is fatty, but really, fatty products are only consumed by poor people? What, poor people can't afford to eat salad? Cause I'm poor and I don't spend much on food, but I still manage to keep a decent diet. Red meat and muffins and cakes are not exactly my idea of a budget meal!