Why it is acceptable to criticize smokers, but not fat people?

Shadow5

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Mar 11, 2009
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Hey, I criticise obese adults all the time, I know not all people who are obese can help it but the vast majority can. I don't criticise obese children, I criticise their parents.
People who are slightly overweight, I figure there are too many possible mitigating circumstances to immediately jump to criticising them
 

vviki

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Mar 17, 2009
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gphjr14 said:
vviki said:
Brawndo said:
Also, children with fat parents are less likely to have access to healthy foods and are more likely to be overweight themselves. Other people ARE harmed by you being overweight.
[citation needed]
Having worked 3.5 years in a hospital I can say they do cause more of a burden to staff as well as US medical system at large. You have some people who are just tall but overall all of the bariatric equipment and supplies the hospital has to purchase, and maintain cost extra and the patients rarely make up for those expenses.

Transported patients for the radiology department for 3 years. 2.5 years into I developed fluid around one of my knees and it was mostly due to transporting overweight patients. I did the smart thing and got the hell out but I can tell you first hand they can cause harm to those who have to take of them, unduly so.

In my apartment complex every other day I see a guy have a taxi pick him up and take him to Mc Donald's. He has to enter and exit the vehicle in phases. I've never seen him work so I can only assume he doesn't have any health coverage for when he'll inevitably have to go to the hospital for chronic knee and or back pain, or heart trouble, but hey at least he's happy. Right?

Smokers and overweight individuals shouldn't be chastised but they do need to know their unhealthy lifestyles are unnecessary, preventable and often times an undue burden to those around them.
Sorry about that. Meant to quote only the fat parents fat kids thing. I do agree that overweight people cause harm to others. I am overweight and just by reading this tread makes me want to do some harm to skinny people just for retaliation. That is the thing, the war should not start. Fat people are not that happy, you know. Loosing weight is also a bigger burden than it's usually described. When I start exercising, everyone starts laughing and telling me I'll stop the day after the first one. When I try dieting, everyone starts telling me how wrong it is and whats better. Maybe I am surrounded by horrible people, maybe everyone is just horrible. Living with other people also makes it hard to diet. Attending events makes it stupid when you refuse that glass of wine, since alcohol is not accepted in your diet. We already feel bad and you guys are not helping. When you try quitting smoking no one at the birthday party goes "Well just one cigarette. I made them myself, you will offend me if you don't have one." Though with food is different. I cook for a lot of people, I understand how it feels and I know it is bad when someone refuses something you made.

On the bright side, would you trust a skinny chef to cook you delicious food? :D
 

Alphonse_Lamperouge

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the problem here, is that fat people don't hate themselves enough to change.

i propose a name-and-shame solution.

imagine at your local McDonald's, a wall with pictures of all the people that order ridiculous amounts of food. that is, more than any land dwelling mammal, let alone a human, should consume in a sitting. Im talking about a pounder (a quarter pounder is a large meal for a fully grown man) or double or even triple servings of a normal human meal.

that is the kind of world i want to live in. and don't give me that ''oh its a health/genetic thing'', its not, its gluttony. that, and a lack of willpower.

less than 1% percent of obese people can claim it stems from a medical condition. the rest of you, well it was probably all those cakes that you ate, now wasn't it?
 

TiefBlau

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I've never seen a fat man whose ass-smog was so rank that it gave me a coughing fit and had the cumulative effect of increasing my susceptibility to lung cancer.

But maybe that's just me.



To put it plainly, "mind your own fucking business until it's actually killing you" is a good rule of thumb.
 

sharpsheppard

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DracoSuave said:
The difference is very simple.

A fat person doesn't force bacon down my throat in order for them to eat. A smoker does force others to breath in his drug.

One is immediately self-contained, and the other inconveniences those around you.
the air is already shit from cars and factories smokes are not so bad in the big picture
 

Evil Smurf

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Nov 11, 2011
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Bobic said:
Yes, but you forgot to factor in how all the money spent on burgers stimulates the economy. Yeah, think about that.
by that logic, don't cigarettes also stimulate the economy?
 

hcig

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Never understood cigarettes, if you were in the military, sure, i can see how you gained an addiction to it, but other than that? i mean, you can try it out, sure, but im pretty certain 1 cig wont get you addicted, not unless you have the weakest will in the cosmos.
So ive never been addicted to anything, never relied on anything, so i cant tell you how hard it is to quit. what i can tell you is that when im hungry, i get sluggish until i eat something. and if fat guys are always hungry, it would be pretty hard to get through workouts when your energy is selfishly storing itself away in your man boobs.
which makes the diet important, which is also incredibly hard to pull off. i recently started eating less (good) meat in order to save money, and i cant explain how freaking hard it is to avoid buying that big ass, tasty looking steak, in favor of some nice, cheap, crappy beans. Some days my jaw actually gets sore and i feel this intense desire for a big, chewable piece of cow. those days suck a whole hell of alot of ass, so i think i can sympathize with a dieter when he not only has to lower his intake (thus lowering his energy levels until his stupid body realizes it needs to use reserves) but has to stop eating all the things he loves.

If you look at the food like an addiction, hes then a victim of vice, and should be pitied and helped, not scolded. (you can hate him when he refuses to change) on top of having to stop an addiction, he has to literally work his body for months to lower his weight, and for the rest of his life to keep it off.

While smokers have plenty of help that actually works (e-cigs, patches, gum) fat people really only have lies and horrible side effects. if you are a smoker who wants to quit, you can be aided by artificial means. if you are a fatty who wants to quit, youre either coughing up ALOT of dough, or youre on your own.

bottom line is, fat people have it out worse, its hard for them to change, where smokers... not so much (my friend quit smoking in 2 months by cutting down amount smoked in half every week, grandfather quit one day by chewing juicy fruit, and brother's friend has gone from pack a day to totally electronic in a month, only one to go back to smoking was my friend, because he is a big baby and took up smoking after a year when he got dumped) Neither should be criticized for these things, but the idea of treating fat people like we treat smokers is kind of silly, and really only harmful, especially if the person is emotionally dependent on food.
 

z121231211

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vviki said:
z121231211 said:
MelasZepheos said:
Or they don't have the money to go to the gym.
What about just running outside or doing push-ups or something?
Nice of you to mention running, jumping, push-ups and other, what I'm guessing includes stair climbing, squats and sit-ups. All those are done using your own body as weight. Think about it for a bit, muscles for a normal body, with a lot of extra dead weight. What will that do to your joints, bones and heart when you start running?

To make it easier to imagine, lets take a normal person 165 pounds 5 foot 10". Now strap a bag to his back, that weighs 50 pounds. Now make him sprint till his heart hits 170 beats per minute. Now make him continue doing that for 30min. Not sure if a marathon runner would last that. That is what happens when a 215 pounds person starts running, even the slow jogging style. Pulse goes from 80-100 (normal) to 170-180 (near the maximum) in about 30-60 seconds. And you would suggest, with your medical degree and years of expertise, that this person continues doing so for another 30min every day until he looses the 50 extra pounds?

I know what you are thinking: "Well if he can run for 30 sec, then run for 30 sec, diet meanwhile and it will all go way... this time next year probably." And do that while the surrounding people ridicule you, criticise the way you diet, how little you are exercising and eat like pigs around you.

I know what you are thinking: "To hell with those people." So you would make that person not see anyone and isolate himself from others, just so he could be normal again. Then you can pay less taxes and you can welcome him back in society without prejudice and he can join in on ridiculing all the fat people in his vicinity. Now who is being draconian?
I rather like your argument, but the biggest problem: 215 pounds? Here's me thinking you're going to talk about people over 300-400 pounds, and that would have made sense. But no, 215 pounds. Yeah, that's kindof heavy, but not heavy enough to stop you from jogging. And if you can only run for 30 seconds at 170 BPM, here's the thing, your body improves over time. Maybe today you can only run 30 seconds, keep at it and next week you can run 45, all the way until you're running farther than you think you could. And yes, it takes pain and hard work to get in better shape.

Now if you're obese and in the 300-400 or more range, fuck maybe you should just WALK an extra half-hour. If you can't even walk, you need a medical professional.

But 215 FUCKING POUNDS, unless there's something I'm missing you can jog. The only thing holding you back is willpower. Seriously, start slow and build your way up. The first week fucking hurts but you get past that and your body gets used to it.

Though that's all talking about jogging, which I should say isn't the only cardio exercise you can do. And also when I say 'you' I'm talking to a 215 pound person and not exactly you (you didn't say that you were 215 pounds and I'm not going to assume you are, it just made my argument flow better).
 

bigbananadave

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Sep 14, 2009
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GamerKT said:
It usually takes longer for someone to stop being fat than to stop smoking. Also, smoke stinks. The most a fat person could inconvenience another is by taking up extra space or food.
fat people can stink as well! they also offend other senses such as sight. and the flabby bits around there mouth distorts their speech so it can also offend the sense of hearing. im guessing that if i were to unexpectently come into bodily contact with them i.e on a crowded subway i would be grossed out. finally however sickly it make me feel to think this if i ever licked an obese person i can only imagine they would taste like rancid chicken grease...

all in all im guessing fat people can offend all of our senses, a bit like in family guy when peter griffin confronts christina aguilera.

My advice is this:

Fatty! put the fork down!

christina! get back in the cupboard and stay there!

job done... ive just saved the music industry and the worlds largest health problem (except AIDS) in just 10 mins.



God im awesome
 

DracoSuave

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sharpsheppard said:
DracoSuave said:
The difference is very simple.

A fat person doesn't force bacon down my throat in order for them to eat. A smoker does force others to breath in his drug.

One is immediately self-contained, and the other inconveniences those around you.
the air is already shit from cars and factories smokes are not so bad in the big picture
If air pollution is bad, then adding another pollutant, and one containing a drug, is not a valid answer.

Nonsmokers don't want your drug. You don't get to choose if they take it in or not. Your decisions should only impact your lungs and no one else's.
 

Kynreave

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Dec 5, 2011
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I for one don't inherently critisize smokers, as long as they don't smoke around other people (Unless they too are smokers and/or enjoy being around people smoking). However I can see the logic.

Smokers choose to smoke, which is something outside of what our species has evolved to do.

Fat people eat too much, however everyone needs to eat so everyone has the possibility of becoming fat due to a number of reasons. For someone to smoke they have to START smoking rather than to continue existing behaviour in excess. Smoking is also (almost always) optional to start. There are far more medical, and psychological reasons beyond a person's control for becoming fat than there are to start smoking.

I want to qualify though that I know there are people out there who have suffered some sort of psychological problem that has caused them to start smoking, however the vast majority of people these days have done it out of lack of willpower to break from peer pressure that they have the ability to break away from.
 

Fishyash

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Dec 27, 2010
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TBH both smokers and obese people deserve criticism on the basis that, although it may not be entirely their fault that it happened to them in the first place, they are capable of undoing the damaging lifestyle they started. (less so for people who are obese due to a disease)

Although IMO the main difference is that heavy smokers are generally more unpleasant to be near than an overweight person.

I don't think either deserve ridicule and abuse, but I do think that obese people don't really deserve as much criticism. It normally takes more effort, dedication, time and usually money to stop (that's besides the psychological barriers that they also may need to overcome).
 

Javarock

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Feb 11, 2011
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Alphonse_Lamperouge said:
the problem here, is that fat people don't hate themselves enough to change.

i propose a name-and-shame solution.

imagine at your local McDonald's, a wall with pictures of all the people that order ridiculous amounts of food. that is, more than any land dwelling mammal, let alone a human, should consume in a sitting. Im talking about a pounder (a quarter pounder is a large meal for a fully grown man) or double or even triple servings of a normal human meal.

that is the kind of world i want to live in. and don't give me that ''oh its a health/genetic thing'', its not, its gluttony. that, and a lack of willpower.

less than 1% percent of obese people can claim it stems from a medical condition. the rest of you, well it was probably all those cakes that you ate, now wasn't it?
So you want to psychologically harm people who are Fat potential leading to depression and suicide, When they were living their lives before hand. What if they are happy with their current weight and maintaining it?, What if despite the fact they are fat they are leading perfectly happy lives. Then you propose this and fuck their lives up and may end up killing themselves?

To be honest, I'm disappointed by this thread. It sickens me, I'm not fat nor am I a smoker. Neither should be chastised as long as people are aware of the consequences and frequently they are. But the fact some members of this forum would say such terrible things makes me want to leave. It's sad...

I truly hope you were not suggesting this seriously.
 

Doc Funky

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May 22, 2010
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vviki said:
Nice of you to mention running, jumping, push-ups and other, what I'm guessing includes stair climbing, squats and sit-ups. All those are done using your own body as weight. Think about it for a bit, muscles for a normal body, with a lot of extra dead weight. What will that do to your joints, bones and heart when you start running?

To make it easier to imagine, lets take a normal person 165 pounds 5 foot 10". Now strap a bag to his back, that weighs 50 pounds. Now make him sprint till his heart hits 170 beats per minute. Now make him continue doing that for 30min. Not sure if a marathon runner would last that. That is what happens when a 215 pounds person starts running, even the slow jogging style. Pulse goes from 80-100 (normal) to 170-180 (near the maximum) in about 30-60 seconds. And you would suggest, with your medical degree and years of expertise, that this person continues doing so for another 30min every day until he looses the 50 extra pounds?

I know what you are thinking: "Well if he can run for 30 sec, then run for 30 sec, diet meanwhile and it will all go way... this time next year probably." And do that while the surrounding people ridicule you, criticise the way you diet, how little you are exercising and eat like pigs around you.

I know what you are thinking: "To hell with those people." So you would make that person not see anyone and isolate himself from others, just so he could be normal again. Then you can pay less taxes and you can welcome him back in society without prejudice and he can join in on ridiculing all the fat people in his vicinity. Now who is being draconian?
I wasn't going to reply to anything in this thread until I saw this post, which tries to make every excuse possible for why a person should *choose* to remain obese.

Exercise will destroy fat people's bodies! I weighed 289 pounds at my heaviest, and hit the treadmill for 30 minutes every day, followed by weight training. Now, down almost 90 pounds, I'm not a quivering mass of broken bones, snapped joints, and an exploded heart. As a matter of fact, I feel (and am) stronger than ever. See, the thing about avoiding injury during exercise is that you have to pace yourself, and don't push to do more than your body can handle! Shocking, I know! And then, see, a magical thing happens...the next time you do that thing, you'll be even better at it, because your body adapts, and becomes stronger! Wow! Pacing yourself?! Slowly improving over time?! IMPOSSIBLE.

Everyone will make fun of you for trying to stop being fat! From my own experience, every single person I know (friends, family, everyone at work) was very supportive. Even the fat people. Especially the fat people. No one criticized the way I ate, or the way I exercised. Sure, people still ate like pigs around me, but guess what - I chose not to join in. Gasp! Exercising a bit of self-control?! IMPOSSIBLE.

But sure, maybe the person in your hypothetical universe (let's call him Fats Poppa), is surrounded only by negative people that criticize his attempts at weight loss, who pour cheese sauce all over his face and try to shove cake in his mouth in an attempt to stop him. Well, see, here's what Fats Poppa can do...instead of walling himself off from the world, which in your example is the ONLY SOLUTION, he can instead choose to associate with better people! What?! Make new friends when your old ones turn on you?! Choose to associate with people who don't try to tear you down every chance they get?! IMPOSSIBLE.

Getting back to the original point of the thread:
Look, being fat for any reason other than some wild medical issue is a choice. You can choose to start smoking, and you can choose to stop taking care of your body, but you cannot become chemically addicted to laziness.
 

sharpsheppard

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Sep 28, 2010
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DracoSuave said:
sharpsheppard said:
DracoSuave said:
The difference is very simple.

A fat person doesn't force bacon down my throat in order for them to eat. A smoker does force others to breath in his drug.

One is immediately self-contained, and the other inconveniences those around you.
the air is already shit from cars and factories smokes are not so bad in the big picture
If air pollution is bad, then adding another pollutant, and one containing a drug, is not a valid answer.

Nonsmokers don't want your drug. You don't get to choose if they take it in or not. Your decisions should only impact your lungs and no one else's.
I don't smoke never said i did so they are not my drug as you stated. I also never said that smoking is okay in public places i do belive that having seprate rooms is okay as long as the staff are okay with working in it only thing i said was the air is shit and is causing health problems on its own with and without smokes.

mabey read people posts before telling them that them off about things they have never said
 

Josufu

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Jun 13, 2010
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http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1640436,00.html

Thought I should share this. There is a fair bit of information regarding addiction. There is also a mention on the first page that all addictions, whether to fattening food, alcohol, or nicotine, stem from the same areas of the brain. It also has a fair bit about research being done to combat addiction, though the article is a few years old. Have a nice evening!
 

Agow95

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Jul 29, 2011
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Second hand smoke gives non-smokers cancer, fat people don't make other people fat or build up their cholesterol.
 

maninhat

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I'm 15 I started smoking when I was 13 and quit around 4 months ago...
I do not think it is reasonable to critise either group, I used to be over weight as a child and even though I'm now skinny and well even athletic I still have massive self image problems and I am constantly worried I will gain weight again. I cop flack from my mates every time I cough they call me a "westie" and a "dirty smoker" and I sort of was, smokings pretty disgusting, I only started because I was fat and no other social group that I perceived as "cool" would accept me. Any way going back to the point of this, I think its less about the social elements of it (even though thats probably the most interesting part) more the regulations surrounding it, such as how children are allowed to eat sooo much crap that they do as much damage to themselves as smoking or parents who are so worried about terrible influences such as smoking that they wont let their children run around out side and play with kids on the street.
 

Silvianoshei

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MelasZepheos said:
Or it's cheaper for them to buy junk food (which is still cheaper than vegetables and healthy food, by quite a considerable difference)
Ok, the rest of your argument is fine, but this is bullshit. Healthy food is SO much cheaper than junk food. Vegetables are cheap as hell; you can go to any grocery store and see that you can pick up two weeks worth of vegetables, bread, pasta, sauce, and milk for 20 bucks. You can buy 5 bags of Doritos for the same price, mabye 6 if they are on sale. That's how I live, it's an easy choice considering how much money I save and (more importantly) how healthy I eat. I'm not trying to be self-righteous here, but don't blame your refusal to eat healthy on money issues, because that's bull.

When I did clinical work, it was my job to criticize fat people. Everyone can lose weight, you don't need a gym membership. All you need is to eat properly: small, consistent, healthy meals, and you'll lose weight naturally.