Why Makeb Hits LGBT Players So Hard

[Robert Rath]

Why Makeb Hits LGBT Players So Hard

Old Republic's "gay planet" mimics real-world frustrations.

Read Full Article

 

[Zen Toombs]

I point out these issues not to get up on a soapbox about the state of LGBT rights in America (and certainly not to speak for a community I'm not a part of), but to point out why LGBT persons may be hypersensitive to the dynamics at play in the current SWTOR controversy. The Makeb controversy serves as a microcosm of the emotionally-charged situation of LGBT politics.

You may not be in the LGBTQUIAAWTFBBQ community, but you have a firm grasp of the issues. A well written article, I commend you.

 

[jehk]

It's a disappointment that the old struggles, and prejudices, and minimization of their needs will even follow them to a galaxy far, far away.

I consider myself part of that community. This made me tear up a little. Fuck. Is it Friday yet? I need a drink.

 

[Moth_Monk]

There's only one word for this situation: Clusterfuck.

 

[an annoyed writer]

It's a disappointment that the old struggles, and prejudices, and minimization of their needs will even follow them to a galaxy far, far away.

I consider myself part of that community. This made me tear up a little. Fuck. Is it Friday yet? I need a drink.

Same here, and I think I need a drink too. This guy at the very least has a very firm grasp on the issues.

Also, interesting fact: according to Karen Traviss's books in the Star Wars mythos, LGBT rights were already supported by a certain group: none other than the Mandalorians. You heard me right: Boba Fett, one of the biggest badasses of all time, supports our rights. That was before Disney though. Unfortunately it's not widely known fact.

 

[tangoprime]

Why can't bioware pull it off as well as Bethesda has done in the last few games... It's just, there. It's not trumpeted, it's not pushed, it's not a binary GAY or NAY at some point in building character relationships... in both new vegas, and to a slightly lesser extent, skyrim, it's just there. There are some characters, well written, great characters. They happen to be l/g/b- you only really find this out if you learn enough about them as a person, talk to them, find out about their past, etc, like how it is for the most part in real life. Veronica and Arcade are probably two of the best written gay characters I've ever seen, especially the backstory with Veronica and Christine at the Brotherhood, and how that gets expanded upon when you meet that character in an expansion.

Bioware, seriously, take notes. Oh yeah, EA. That explains a lot.

 

[Xanex]

It's a disappointment that the old struggles, and prejudices, and minimization of their needs will even follow them to a galaxy far, far away.

I consider myself part of that community. This made me tear up a little. Fuck. Is it Friday yet? I need a drink.

Same here, and I think I need a drink too. This guy at the very least has a very firm grasp on the issues.

Also, interesting fact: according to Karen Traviss's books in the Star Wars mythos, LGBT rights were already supported by a certain group: none other than the Mandalorians. You heard me right: Boba Fett, one of the biggest badasses of all time, supports our rights. That was before Disney though. Unfortunately it's not widely known fact.

Please don't bring up KT books in a Star Wars thread. I'm still trying to pretending her SW books don't exist and you messing with my delusions, thanks.

OT: Gotta say. Well written article. Though expecting anything out of Bio***cough*EA*cough**ware these day is an exercise in futility.

 

[redknightalex]

Well written article that comes from a mind that seems to grasp the issues and problems facing the LGBT community today, problems that seem to be getting more and more frustrating as time goes by. There were many great points in this article, and many that need to be evaluated (I'm still a torch-bearer for BioWare and believe that they really are trying to do the right thing SGRs), but the most annoying thing I read was something I've always known: Disney is a "family-friendly" company.

So, same-sex households/families aren't families? Or are they just not friendly? Sigh.

I'm still hoping for a future, at least in the sci-fi genre, where this is not a debate, not even an issue. I don't understand how it's not just assumed that in the future sexuality is no longer an issue, much less a big issue.

 

[Something Amyss]

Makeb is one of those temporary measures that pleases no one while offending everyone.

Really, it's not just temporary measures. We live in a culture where ANY measure will offend a good chunk of the people involved, but for some reason we seek to compromise. Congratulations! You've now offended everyone involved with a half-assed measure, temporary or not.

As it applies to the game, this is probably true. But as it relates to the real world, I just figured I'd make the point.

So, same-sex households/families aren't families?

Not by Disney's standards.

This is also an issue for any non-traditional family, including the single parent. Single parents aren't as polarising, but they are discriminated against. I mean, part of the complaint against homosexual pairings is that kids need a mother AND a father, something single-parent households also lack.

It's garbage, but it's the line of thought.

 

[itsthesheppy]

Excellent article. Bioware needs to learn that you go big, or you go home. Stopgap bullshit only makes everyone angry. You'd think professional adults would understand this.

 

[Luhrsen]

People complaining about Disney: while they probably aren't going to come out in support in a major press release, Disney still offers same-sex Magic Kingdom weddings and openly hires homosexual employees so I doubt they are the ones trying to prevent SGRAs from appearing in the game.

 

[redknightalex]

So, same-sex households/families aren't families?

Not by Disney's standards.

This is also an issue for any non-traditional family, including the single parent. Single parents aren't as polarising, but they are discriminated against. I mean, part of the complaint against homosexual pairings is that kids need a mother AND a father, something single-parent households also lack.

It's garbage, but it's the line of thought.

True true. Very much in the garbage POV. As a member of the LGBT community and raised primarily by my mother (parents are divorced), I always found that line of thought to be complete BS. Disney doesn't listen to science, do they?

In a way, this is also rather ironic considering all of the Disney stories that like to kill off one parent or make the main protagonist an orphan. Guess it'll take Disney another 20 years or so to have a LGBT family when we just had our first black princess!

 

[Robert Rath]

So, same-sex households/families aren't families?

Not by Disney's standards.

This is also an issue for any non-traditional family, including the single parent. Single parents aren't as polarising, but they are discriminated against. I mean, part of the complaint against homosexual pairings is that kids need a mother AND a father, something single-parent households also lack.

It's garbage, but it's the line of thought.

True true. Very much in the garbage POV. As a member of the LGBT community and raised primarily by my mother (parents are divorced), I always found that line of thought to be complete BS. Disney doesn't listen to science, do they?

In a way, this is also rather ironic considering all of the Disney stories that like to kill off one parent or make the main protagonist an orphan. Guess it'll take Disney another 20 years or so to have a LGBT family when we just had our first black princess!

It's interesting that this came up, since after filing the article I found myself thinking a lot about the term "family friendly" and decided I should've probably put it in quotes. After all, if a kid's growing up with a gay parent, sister, cousin, aunt, how is seeing a gay person on TV not "friendly" to his household? As someone who grew up with divorced parents my mind went to the same place that's been mentioned here - that when I was growing up there were no families on TV that had divorced parents, it was literally considered more acceptable for one parent to be dead than to even hint at a divorce. (The only exception I can recall is Angelica's mother on Rugrats, and that was hardly a sympathetic portrayal of a working mother.)

So yes, I was using Disney's version of "family friendly," and I probably shouldn't have done so uncritically. I did say they were ostensibly family friendly though, since Disney now owns a lot of brands that are PG-13 or R. (In an interesting side note: The day after Osama Bin Laden was killed, Disney attempted to copyright the name "SEAL Team Six" for both movies and videogames. The Navy confronted them about it an they backed off.)

 

[xomocekc]

#1reasonwhy you don't give in to outside pressure from "interest groups" to include things in your work, be it religious groups, feminists or LGWhatever.
They finally got what they asked for after years of begging, which was probably not very easy since LucasArts likely had to agree and now they're bitching and crying their eyes out that it "isn't what they expected" or "isn't enough". If anyone talks about "entitlement" in gaming again, point them to this, because if this isn't it I don't know what is.

Especially if it comes from a negligible portion of your customerbase: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/americans-have-no-idea-how-few-gay-people-there-are/257753/ and you can be sure to piss off another part at the same time.

Yeah no, I think I will still point people to the thing where a couple of months ago a bunch of neckbeards pressured Bioware into making a new ending for ME because the normal one upset their fee fees.

 

[Farther than stars]

That's an interesting perspective and those are definitely some points worth thinking about. I do disagree with one thing though. Writing a specific set of statutes for hate crimes is risky business. Laws are positivistic by nature and differentiating them based on intent opens up a host of legal and moral issues. Personally I ascribe to a combination of philosophies from Max Weber and Oliver Wendell Holmes, whereby laws outline the crimes and proportionate punishments and it's left to judges to interpret them with regard to criminal intent and the impact that that intent has on the cultural environment.
If you do want to consolidate hate crimes in the law, however, it's better to tie them in with existing anti-discrimination legislation.

 

[tehroc]

I wish the LBGT community would spend more time complaining about bad writing. Bioware romances are freaking horrible and are at best token experiences, homosexual and hetero. Just tacked on so they can say they are there. Why be proud about a token gay character, included just to represent some demographic? LGBT community, you are being patronized; demand more.

 

[MasterOfHisOwnDomain]

I'm still hoping for a future, at least in the sci-fi genre, where this is not a debate, not even an issue. I don't understand how it's not just assumed that in the future sexuality is no longer an issue, much less a big issue.

If I remember rightly, in Peter F Hamilton's "Commonwealth" universe, the issue of sexuality is, from my memory, not an "issue" at all. The character of Oscar Monroe has the history of same-sex relationships brought up when he is first introduced, but no one bats an eyelid and it's never more fully developed. Which is good. There's nothing more annoying than a person whose entire character revolves around their sexuality. So that's one universe in which sense prevails.

 

[the_real_seebs]

That's an interesting perspective and those are definitely some points worth thinking about. I do disagree with one thing though. Writing a specific set of statutes for hate crimes is risky business. Laws are positivistic by nature and differentiating them based on intent opens up a host of legal and moral issues. Personally I ascribe to a combination of philosophies from Max Weber and Oliver Wendell Holmes, whereby laws outline the crimes and proportionate punishments and it's left to judges to interpret them with regard to criminal intent and the impact that that intent has on the cultural environment.
If you do want to consolidate hate crimes in the law, however, it's better to tie them in with existing anti-discrimination legislation.

I held this view for a long time. However, there is a real reason for such laws to exist, which is that the effects of crimes are not quite linear with their frequency. Having something be sufficiently pervasive gives it a huge multiplier in its effect and harm, so there are real reasons to modify rules that have to do with crimes which are likely to be pervasive for some people and not for others. So basically, in the real world, these laws serve a useful function, at least for now.