Why wasn't Kingdom of Amalur as praised as Skyrim or Dragon Age?

veloper

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I'm willing to give the TS this one thing and that is that the combat in KOA is better than combat in Skyrim.

DA:eek:rigins on a console is a horrible mess of a clusterfuck too, but the game belongs to a different subgenre so it's hard to compare the two, let alone if you consider the PC version, which plays more RTS-lite like during combat.

If combat is your main thing and it absolutely has to be an action RPG, then DS > KOA > Skyrim. And don't pick daggers or chakrams for KOA because that will make the game far too easy.
 

NerAnima

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I thought that it was because of the world, and the people who inhabited it. Some people didn't like the combat, I personally enjoyed it, but to each his own. Some people say it's because the game feels like an MMO, I could care less for an MMO but I kinda liked KoA.

But the characters; oh Prometheus, the characters. I could not find a single person in the game who I cared for, who I wanted to live, who I was grateful to, even if they saved my life. When Alyn Shir tells you about what you were before you died, I couldn't care at all. When she threatened to kill you if you told anyone, I was tempted to say "I'm gonna tell the world, what are you gonna do about it?" Just so that I could tear her apart.

I didn't honestly care for the Fateweaver who started you on your quest, I didn't care for the Gnome who brought you back from the grave, I didn't care for any of the characters; if I'm being honest, I cared more for the Maid of Windemere and the giant tree than anyone else.

Was everything else in the game good? Yes, in my opinion, I enjoyed the combat much more than Skyrim's. But the characters are just plain boring, combine that with no brand recognition, unlike Dragon Age with Bioware behind it, and Skyrim with Bethesda, and it's quickly forgotten, or not fondly remembered.

Myself, I agree with most of Angry Joe's review of the game; it's a good game, but it has a number of issues.
 

spartan231490

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I mean, KoA was a fun game, with a good premise, but IMHO it's world was no where near as good as skyrim, and the story was no where near as good DA. Also, I found the combat even more repetitive than skyrim, and laughably easy to boot. Almost any enemy in the game can be beaten by repeating a certain number of attacks followed by a dodge-roll, and you'll usually come out of it with full health. Even against swarms, it was ridiculously easy to not take any damage at all. Still a solid game, but I don't think it stands up to skyrim or DA: origins, honestly I don't even think it's quite as good as DA:2, about as good the first run through, but significantly less fun on subsequent play throughs.
 

EternallyBored

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Going to echo the other people here saying it was too much like a single player MMO, and not in a good way. The areas were pretty enough, but the giant zones just felt 90% empty with wandering mobs getting in the way, pretty much like an MMO. This wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for pretty much every area being like this, just either open arena or narrow pathways. You certainly can't climb mountains to survey the whole area like you can in Skyrim, the zones are pretty much just obvious cutoffs designed to fit specific aesthetics. It doesn't feel like a living world, it's like separate levels on a video game, "oh look here's a forest level, and over here is the desert level, and maybe if we get far enough we'll see the swamp level".

The questing system is also something that should not have been aping so many MMOs. The point of all those area specific fetch quests is to take you to areas with other players fighting in them, in KoA it's just you alone out in the middle of nowhere doing an insane number of tedious sidequests for little to no reward. It works almost exactly like an MMO, you wander into a zone, pick up a bunch of random quests that have nothing to do with the main story, and usually finish a quest chain dealing with the story of that zone. This works in MMOs because there is no main story, you aren't the main protagonist, so you're usually portrayed as the wandering hero that solves random problems once he enters the area. In this game, it takes away from the main quest, I'm supposed to be this awesome destined hero, but it seems like every time I enter a new area, I'm just doing random chores for strangers. Random sidequests are a staple of RPGs, but the model used in KoA pretty much floods the player with random useless quests, to the point where I spend 90% of my time in a new zone doing nothing relating to the main story. This gets to the point where I actually forget what the hell my character is actually supposed to be doing.

The main story itself also suffers from rampant MMO syndrome. The main vilain is basically a non-entity for the majority of the game, helping random elves and villagers is common in RPGs, but you usually at least have the main story in the background, with a main quest chain that moves the story along. Pretty much up until you get to the next continent, the main villain is just a distant thing you hear about from time to time. Your told you need to stop him, but the game seems to go out of its way to make sure you don't actually have any meaningful interaction with him until the final dungeon. Speaking of the final dungeon, that whole level was obviously designed for an MMO raid party with it's massive corridors and way too large circular arenas every ten feet. The last boss himself is so generic I had to actually think about it for a good couple minutes just to remember what the hell it was. The lore itself is dense, but so damn boring I frequently forgot what the hell I was supposed to be doing half the time. I would come back to the game after a couple days and wonder to myself, "ok I'm in a desert. Why the hell am I in a desert? oh yeah I'm helping random miners, and stopping that whole end of the world thing I haven't heard about since the tutorial level." This works in an MMO because everybody can't be the protagonist, so you follow the zone storylines while working your way up to being part of the main attack force that eventually assaults the villain. In this game it just feels like my hero has the world's worst case of ADD.

As for the combat, yeah it starts out fun, but even only doing a few sidequests, you've pretty much unlocked the whole tree by about the halfway point in the game, then the rest of the game is spent fighting the same enemies over and over again for the next 20 hours. Even a great combat system gets boring without any major changeups in that amount of time. The combat is also hurt by the truly generic enemy design. I hope you liked the enemies you met by the time you make it to the desert, because 90% of the enemies you fight after that are all color palette swaps of each other. They are also about 80% variations on humanoid themes, you've got goblin knockoffs, humans/elves, trolls, and bigger trolls, that's about what you'll spend the vast majority of the game fighting, the few boss battles in the game are pretty uninspired, the only two I can remember even while thinking about it are the final boss and the giant during the siege.

As others have also said, the game itself is also just too damn easy, even on hard you still end up massively overleveling everything outside of the dungeons, the loot system is also pretty crappy, giving you stuff that should be epic quality, yet ends up worse than even the low level items you can craft. You think skyrim blacksmithing can make a character hilariously overpowered? Just wait until you realize you've crafted armor better than any noncrafted item in the game and your only at about the midway point, so you just spend the rest of the game collecting loot only for the compenents you need to squeeze a few extra points out of your next crafted piece, and your basically invincible in combat because you armor is twice as good as everything else in the game.

Despite all these criticisms, I still played and beat the game, it wasn't terrible, and like I said the combat was pretty fun, even if it was too damn easy, and the majority of it was wasted on generic palette swap enemies. The game is just painfully mediocre, and I struggled trying to remember as much about it as I did to make this post. I remember characters like Alduin, and Gwynn, or locations like Sovengard, and the underground ash lake from Dark Souls, but for the life of me almost the entirety of KoA is just one giant mass of blah, that I struggle to remember even one thing that stood out to me other than "yeah the combat was pretty fun for the first half of the game".
 

Guitarmasterx7

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Mar 16, 2009
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Probably because most people didn't play it. I have an interest in the genre and I didn't even play it. I know a couple people that played it. They said it was good. Maybe I should play it.
 

lovest harding

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Why isn't KoA as praised as the Elder Scrolls or Dragon Age?
Easy. Because the majority of people who played it don't agree that KoA is as good or better than either series.
 

Zeke63

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I mean i bought kingdoms and felt like i took it pretty hard from some capitalist swine. after the intro and let into the world i was just like man this game is so empty and heartless, am i even playing a game?
 

Mycroft Holmes

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Phoenixmgs said:
However, what other action RPG has better hack and slash gameplay?
Nox. Probably by a wide margin since I didn't think of Nox before, and it's better than any Mass Effect game in the gameplay department.
 

lovest harding

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Ren_Li said:
Really? Okay. I'll start with KoA-specific issues, before I do KoA/Skyrim comparison. (If I have time to do the latter now, anyway.)

Phoenixmgs said:
Lastly, I saw a thread awhile back where someone was saying KoA wasn't that good because it felt like a single player MMO. I just don't get it.
Might as well address this first. The enemies did not scale with you. It "felt like an MMO" because the enemies spawned regularly, and with little to no regard for your level. I recently re-picked it up out of having little else to do, and because I heard one of the pieces of DLC is very good (and it kept me amused for longer than I expect from most DLC, so that was a win.) After having run through the second "region" to start the DLC, when I came back to it, everything was so under-levelled that having to fight them was a major annoyance, rather than a threat or an opportunity for experience. Conversely, some areas such as caves would then spawn enemies which WERE levelled to me.
It's not just an issue with new regions, but with old ones as well. I don't want to get dragged into a fight with an enemy at a far lower level than I; but rather than level them up to you, giving you random encounters with levelled enemies, or at least having enemies a certain amount weaker than you ignore you, they would chase with dogged determination. Fine if they had no ranged attacks AND were too slow to keep up, but frustrating with, well... Anything else. Which was almost everything.
THAT is the MMO issue. The lack of scaling enemies to you makes it feel like there should be other people fighting them, as in an MMO- but they're just an annoyance to you.
One of the reasons (just to add to your point) it felt like an MMO to me was that the world and the houses/shops were built so large, but barely filled. When I went into the house given to me in that spider forest area, the first thing I noticed was how every bit of furniture was pushed to a wall or in its own little alcove. I could have fit probably fifteen more characters the size of my character comfortably into the middle of the room. It felt like the game expected there to be more people in any given area. Compared to Skyrim's world where streets in towns can be quite narrow and homes/shops are filled to the brim with decorative furniture, it can feel so empty.
It's that feeling that reminded me of an MMO.
 

babinro

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Note: I haven't played Kingdom of Amalur.

I'd actually say the answer is more simple and shallow. It's not a visually realistic game.
You have a game that looks more like Fable or even WoW and the masses are unlikely to draw attention to it.

Skyrim, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and even Final Fantasy get a lot more attention because of the visuals. Most people seem to HATE Final Fantasy and yet it draws more attention then Kingdoms of Amalur or Tales of _____.

Amalur would need mind blowing gameplay and story to elevate it beyond the steriotypes to appeal to the masses. Simply being above average with that look isn't enough.
 

Patathatapon

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From the looks of it, this thread is mostly just people saying "My opinion is more correct than yours".
 

Twitchy Wyche

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Jan 30, 2013
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bjj hero said:
Why cant it be true? I dont think I ever used heavy attacks, I didnt like the wind up. Most enemies I would keep blocking until they jumped off a ledge to their death. The AI was amazingly broken. There were so mqny epic looking enemies who would sit motionless while I hit them hundreds of times with a bow or spear. Its easily the worst AI Ive seen this generation and broke the game in places. I also started thief.
It can't be true because that's not how the game works; it's not set up that a thief build with little to no armor, a small weapon and shield or dual weapons can tank through the game. I'm not talking about what class you choose at the start, I'm talking about what build you went with throughout the game; he said he was using a thief build and blocked his way through everything, including the bosses which his build does not allow for.

And you seem to be really over exaggerating things, because I've logged well over 400 hours into this game and never seen enemies jump to there deaths with the frequency you say it happens in any area of the game. I don't think the AI was broken, I'm pretty sure you just looked for ways to break it, since, from what you said, you clearly put more energy and effort into kitting enemies off cliffs then you did actually trying to fight them and learn how the game's mechanics work.

The story IS pretty good though, it's just not told in a straight forward way with cutscenes and characters pointing out and telling you every little thing about it. And you seem to have a problem with your character not talking, which I don't really understand what exactly your beef is with it. A character doesn't need to be voiced or even talk in order for them to have an impact.

You did mislabel boss enemies too, btw; you were just shooting infrequent enemies with arrows. And all the ones you named off aren't supposed to be able to just get up and kill you from any part of the map. The undead dragons, the Hellkyte Drake, they just sit there and act as progress barriers to make sure you can't just get to certain places in the game before you understand how to play the game. Just because you decided to sit back and shoot them from places they can't reach you from doesn't mean the AI is broken...it doesn't have anything to do with the AI being broken actually.

Also, I would like to point out something you said; you can't actually kill the Hellkyte Drake, the one on the tower, by shooting him with arrows that early on, because he regenerates health, in newer patches anyway.
You probably played the game before patch 1.05 though which means, at the beginning if you just sat there and shot him with arrows, it would have taken somewhere around 350-400 arrows to kill him and I don't believe, considering everything you've said, that you bought that amount of arrows and sat there and shot him even after seeing him heal himself out of nowhere. If you did, I need to meet you and shake your hand, because either you're a madman or a genius.

And you're sentence structure clearly shows you're not insane, so maybe it's better to say either you're a genius, or you were making stuff up. I'm not trying to be argumentative here; it just seem like, to me, you and the OP are making shit up to support your arguments, which isn't very nice.
You were also clearly over hyped by people here, which isn't the games fault; what you said people told you about every lowly enemy being able to kill you is true, you can tell from the way the game works, from the fact you were killed by some lowly skeletons in the graveyard. Everything in the game not only has the capability to kill you, but they have the capability to kill you easily. Even Giant Dad players will die from time to time on challenges they thought they'd mastered.

I know you said you're not bashing the game, that it's good, but that's clearly not what your saying; you've got a double edged thing going on. And I know this is a wall of text and I shouldn't post like that, so I would say you'd be completely within your right either not to respond to this, or simply respond with a TL;DR stamp. The same way you're completely within your right not to like a game I like.
 

white_wolf

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Its a beautiful world with easy combat but maybe it was because of who created it and the fact the company is now gone they bankrupted themselves. The creator was a football player or something like that he loved games and put way too much money in on it but in away it does show I've yet to run into any glitches and if I have they're so minor I didn't even pick up on them its been a bit since I played it last but if I did run into any glitches nothings so major that it has stuck with me for this game. The world is so artistically rendered you can tell they really put some love into it.

Though when you look at Skyrim and Reckoning you notice skyrim is not only more down to Earth its also more action packed as far as you can be attacked by dragons at anypoint and while you could run away its nowhere near as easy for you to do so as the Reckoning was. The Reckoning's easy break away mechanics made fighting seem rather optional as opposed to Skyrim's its better to fight then try and outrun your foes mechanic. The combat like I said is easy Skyrim can give some challenge on a few enemies, the map is huge with lots of sidequest maybe it was too spaced out?

The game has its good points and is a stay in my collection but comparing it to skyrim and other rpgs I'm not coming up with anything that puts this game on a barley talk about list but I also have done no real research into why it seems like it was a blip on the radar.
 

YCRanger

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There is tons of dialog with almost every npc that gives you back lore on the world and it is all surprisingly above average and some actually made me laugh aloud which is unusual for a game. Now the people complaining about the story and the world are correct to an extent. This is a game that largely relies on tell and not show. At first I didn't mind, because the lore was dense and the above average writing was engaging on top of the fun combat. But now I'm in around the 40 hour mark and my interest is waning. You can only take learning the story through dialog options so long before you want to see something happen! This is where Amalur stumbles hard. I jumped on Rift, an actual MMO and found that there was far more going on around me and things to explore in that game than I had experienced at any point playing KoA. However, I love the combat and I think the ability to respec is a great way to help sustain the game's life because if you get stuck in a combat loop that you're bored with you can change completely. It is giving you the tools to mess around in the world and change up the combat to keep it engaging. Whether this alone can pass as an acceptable way to keep you gaming is up to the person who is playing. I don't blame people that just got bored and walked away.
 

Megahedron

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I actually broke my controller's Y button playing KoA. The combat is extremely smooth, and that's why I played it as long as I did. Once I bought a cheap copy of Arkham Asylum, I quit playing KoA because while the setting and combat were good, every other aspect of the game was mediocre to bad. If you're playing a game for the combat, you're better off in the action/adventure genre, where you can easily find better. For the rest of the staples of the WRPG genre, you can easily find better.
 

Master_Fubar23

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Laser Priest said:
Master_Fubar23 said:
People are biased and can't enjoy good games anymore once someone on the internet says something bad about it. I played it and loved every minute of it. The story, the voice acting, graphics, and the combat. It wasn't hard at all and I think I only died a few times throughout the game but I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Of course! Nobody has ever formed an opinion for themselves! Everyone who disagrees with you is a mindless sheep! That makes perfect sense.

You do realize that it's possible for different people all to independently come to the conclusion that a game's not very good, right?
Actually, it does make perfect sense because their are people who are toxic and either complain about a game they never played or hop on the hate train to be with the "cool" crowd. But my comment is referring to those types of people. Especially when the first comment is bring up Fable to condemn the game like so many others did when the game was first released. If you didn't like the game, then so be it but that doesn't make my comment wrong.
 

bjj hero

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Twitchy Wyche said:
plenty of text
I did go into the graveyard first then into the catacombs. I didnt believe the shield worked because the skeletons would wreck me, even when I blocked. The enemies seemed unbelievably tough but I thought this was the game having read the hype. So you bet I got by kicking skeletons off ledges or cornering them so the dive off. It was that or about 10 hits to kill them. In the catacombs it was the only way I could kill them but I soon changed my mind when I found scores of unkillable enemies. It was good to come back later and tear that place up, this time with working shield.

I did shoot up all of the big dragons. You say thats not an AI issue but in a supposed "living world" there is no bigger reminder that its just a game than a big nasty creature that can fly and maim you not even bothering to move its self to avoid being shot to death. I put a lot into Dex but it did take over 300 arrows and a long while, but I wanted to see what was behind.

Even when I was not trying to kick stuff of ledges I had a boss (real one) that jumped backwards of a bridge half way through our epic show down. What an anti climax. These are AI faults. Its one thing being able to bash things off ledges but the enemies shouldnt be volunteering. The first Iron boar thing stood outside of a pillar so I could repeatedly stab him in the rump. 3 steps would have changed things as it wasnt a quick process.

As I said, the game wasnt bad but I felt it had deep flaws that I struggled to overlook as they tended to break immersion. I also dislike silent protagonists but thats for other threads.
 

Crazy Zaul

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Cos the combat was the only thing good about it. The story was crap and the quests were boring meaningless MMO style to get exp. But there was no point leveling to become more powerful cos it was easy anyway.
 

Twitchy Wyche

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Jan 30, 2013
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bjj hero said:
As I said, the game wasnt bad but I felt it had deep flaws that I struggled to overlook as they tended to break immersion. I also dislike silent protagonists but thats for other threads.
You have your points and I really appreciate that this didn't turn into a slinging match; I can't really say the AI is amazing in Dark Souls, because it is very simplistic if you look at how the enemies work. And for that boss that jumped off, I assume you're talking about the Taurus Demon (more or less the first boss you'll encounter and the first boss of the undead burg) and I don't really know what to say; he does have a backwards dodge, so yeah he very well could have jumped off, but I still wouldn't strike that uniquely against the game since a bug like that can happen in any game.

I'll still debate a lot of what you said, but it's not my show here; I've made my point to/about what the OP said and he's yet to respond. Thanks for this, though; I actually really enjoyed talking about a game instead of yelling about it like everyone is so quick to do around here.
 

Laser Priest

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Mar 24, 2011
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Master_Fubar23 said:
Actually, it does make perfect sense because their are people who are toxic and either complain about a game they never played or hop on the hate train to be with the "cool" crowd. But my comment is referring to those types of people. Especially when the first comment is bring up Fable to condemn the game like so many others did when the game was first released. If you didn't like the game, then so be it but that doesn't make my comment wrong.
I'm going to call bull on that, as you never gave any indication that you were only referring to people like that. Your post was indicating people. You seemed to be implying that everyone who dares disagree and say that the game is bad is simply following the crowd. Which is also bullshit, as this "crowd" people seem to imagine as some sort of villainous hive mind have mostly forgotten about this game. This game doesn't get enough hate for there to even be a hate bandwagon. Hell, most people that have even heard of it have only done so because of the coverage of the series of disasters that was 38 Studios.

So going on what your comment says rather than the subtext you claim to have implied without any indication in the post, yes, it is wrong.