Why we shouldn't pay attention to Jonathan Blow

dragonswarrior

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Feb 13, 2012
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First, to clarify the title. This is about why we shouldn't pay attention to anything Mr. Blow SAYS, it has nothing to do with his games.

For those of you who don't know him, he is the creator of the game Braid, and is currently developing his second game Witness. Braid is supposed to be fun and intelligent, and Witness looks like it will be good game, if the bad kind of silly (read: pretentious bullshit). However, Mr. Blow also makes some very controversial statements about the current state of games. Here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116783-Braid-Creator-on-Games-as-Sh-ty-Action-Movies

On to the meat of the subject. Today I saw an issue of the Atlantic magazine in my local bookstore. Now, I have always wanted to read the Atlantic because it looked like they had interesting articles, but never had until today. Today, there was an article about video games, or, to be more specific, about how Jonathan Blow is god and video games would be a horrible pile of shitty trash without him.

First, I would like to state that after reading this article and several others in the Atlantic magazine, that I will no longer be reading the Atlantic magazine. It is a silly pile of dirty rags.

This topic specifically is to talk about why we don't have to pay attention to what Mr. Blow says. See, in the article a brief but enlightening rundown of Mr. Blow's childhood and young adulthood was given, and it became quite clear. The man is severely emotionally damaged.

He was raised in an abusive and repressive household, was very intelligent, and made no friends in school. A loner and an outcast who retreated further into his own head to get away from things etc we have all heard this one before (and many of us have lived it). He was immediately attracted to computers, with their simple and easy to understand logic and lack of humanity.

Over the course of the article it became more and more clear that he barely understood human interaction at all. Now, I want to make it perfectly clear, this is not in itself a problem. Where it becomes a problem is that well... He thinks his opinion is more valid than any other opinion. But frankly, the man is clearly broken.

When he says "video games aren't art yet" he believes this because he can't relate to or understand common narratives. If you look at Braid, or at how Witness is shaping up... Well, frankly the way he designed their narratives is silly. Brilliant, perhaps, if you like that sort of thing, but silly.

What it all comes down to is that he can't understand a very LARGE aspect of human existence that plays an enormous role in narrative driven art.

So yea, whenever he calls one of your favorite past times juvenile or stupid, you may safely ignore him.
 

NinjaDeathSlap

Leaf on the wind
Feb 20, 2011
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Now don't get me wrong, I already pay no attention to the things he says. But you're going to use an abusive past as 'proof' that he doesn't deserve to be listened to? That's... kinda low man.
 

dragonswarrior

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Feb 13, 2012
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NinjaDeathSlap said:
That's... kinda low man.
kman123 said:
Seems pretty scummy man...just because he had a troubled past doesn't mean he's 'broken'.
Huh... I, honestly hadn't seen it that way.

*laughs* Well. I am humbled. Thank you guys.
 

Kahunaburger

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May 6, 2011
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Yeah, we shouldn't disregard this opinion because he had a rough childhood. We should disregard this opinion because it's silly, particularly coming from a guy who made a game about jumping on things with a prominent time manipulation gimmick.
 

More Fun To Compute

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On the whole he is someone who has a pretty coherently worked out idea of how he wants to design games. But on the other hand he is a good example of why people should just stay away from thinking about "art" when it comes to games because it's just an embarrassing red herring. Maybe it gets him more attention but it doesn't seem to be good attention. Most people just roll their eyes and say "here we go again" and the generally hostile people who get excited the word art tend to badly maul anyone who steps out of line.
 

Lugbzurg

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I think this is a good time to bring up this video involving Braid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfbkRReE0fc

Not to mention a monologue that happens to hold what may or may not be relevant in weather or not someone's actions can be excused.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TBJriqTpv4
 

BreakfastMan

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Jul 22, 2010
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But, don't we want more criticism of games? If so, why should we shut up one of the most prominent critics of modern gaming? Seems counter productive. :/
 

Thyunda

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May 4, 2009
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dragonswarrior said:
NinjaDeathSlap said:
That's... kinda low man.
kman123 said:
Seems pretty scummy man...just because he had a troubled past doesn't mean he's 'broken'.
Huh... I, honestly hadn't seen it that way.

*laughs* Well. I am humbled. Thank you guys.
I saw it more as the abuse leading him to separate himself from humanity, and it was this isolation that invalidated his opinion in the larger scheme of things - the implication that, say 'Call of Duty', is juvenile is just insulting to its entire playerbase.

However...yeah. I've seen this fairly often. Bullying, abuse, grow up an outcast, learn to hate humanity, decide anything that's simple and casual is childish and gain that superiority complex.

What the hell happened to me? I got bullied. A lot. Set on fire once. And I'm the friendliest, most sociable ************ you could ever hope to meet.

I'm worried that I might be the broken one here.
 

Kahunaburger

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BreakfastMan said:
But, don't we want more criticism of games? If so, why should we shut up one of the most prominent critics of modern gaming? Seems counter productive. :/
Disagreeing with someone or disregarding someone's opinion =/= shutting someone up.
 

BreakfastMan

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Jul 22, 2010
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Kahunaburger said:
BreakfastMan said:
But, don't we want more criticism of games? If so, why should we shut up one of the most prominent critics of modern gaming? Seems counter productive. :/
Disagreeing with someone or disregarding someone's opinion =/= shutting someone up.
Well, the OP seemed to be saying that we should not pay attention to his criticism (because... reasons?), which amounts to shutting him up in my mind. It seemed, essentially, "I don't like that you are harshly criticizing stuff that I like, however valid they may be, so I am not going to listen to them and I am going to encourage everyone else to ignore them too, because reasons". Might have been a poor choice of words on my part, but I do not think we should disregard criticism that is harsh.
 

dragonswarrior

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Feb 13, 2012
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BreakfastMan said:
But, don't we want more criticism of games? If so, why should we shut up one of the most prominent critics of modern gaming? Seems counter productive. :/
For me it was because he was giving the wrong kind of criticism i.e he was criticizing something he couldn't really understand. Also, I said it was safe to ignore him, not that we should shut him up.

Thyunda said:
I saw it more as the abuse leading him to separate himself from humanity, and it was this isolation that invalidated his opinion in the larger scheme of things - the implication that, say 'Call of Duty', is juvenile is just insulting to its entire playerbase.

However...yeah. I've seen this fairly often. Bullying, abuse, grow up an outcast, learn to hate humanity, decide anything that's simple and casual is childish and gain that superiority complex.

What the hell happened to me? I got bullied. A lot. Set on fire once. And I'm the friendliest, most sociable ************ you could ever hope to meet.

I'm worried that I might be the broken one here.
Ah!! Yea!! That was what I was trying to say!! Man... Why couldn't I have your awesome wordsmith abilities? *sighs* *laughs* Shows what I get for jumping the gun and not thinking things through. Thank you good sir.

And I wouldn't worry too much about being broken. If you decide you are and there is nothing you can do... then that is what will happen. If you decide you are broken but hey, you're going to be awesome anyway, then that is what will happen.
 

BreakfastMan

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Jul 22, 2010
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dragonswarrior said:
BreakfastMan said:
But, don't we want more criticism of games? If so, why should we shut up one of the most prominent critics of modern gaming? Seems counter productive. :/
For me it was because he was giving the wrong kind of criticism i.e he was criticizing something he couldn't really understand. Also, I said it was safe to ignore him, not that we should shut him up.
Well, A: I don't think your points on why we should not listen to him hold up when put under scrutiny (being all guesswork, conjecture, and hearsay), and B: If you never pay attention to whatever someone says and consistently ignore them, it has the same effect as shutting them up. As in, it shuts them up. I myself have experienced the effect on multiple occasions.
 

Kahunaburger

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BreakfastMan said:
Kahunaburger said:
BreakfastMan said:
But, don't we want more criticism of games? If so, why should we shut up one of the most prominent critics of modern gaming? Seems counter productive. :/
Disagreeing with someone or disregarding someone's opinion =/= shutting someone up.
Well, the OP seemed to be saying that we should not pay attention to his criticism (because... reasons?), which amounts to shutting him up in my mind. It seemed, essentially, "I don't like that you are harshly criticizing stuff that I like, however valid they may be, so I am not going to listen to them and I am going to encourage everyone else to ignore them too, because reasons". Might have been a poor choice of words on my part, but I do not think we should disregard criticism that is harsh.
Well, I'm more in the "disagree" camp than the "disregard" camp. Or, to be more accurate, I'm in the "laugh and move on" camp.
 

Yopaz

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Jun 3, 2009
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BreakfastMan said:
But, don't we want more criticism of games? If so, why should we shut up one of the most prominent critics of modern gaming? Seems counter productive. :/
He's not really a prominent critic. He basically disregarded an entire medium with the exception of his own work which in fact isn't that special to begin with. Yahtzee is a game critic who almost always got something bad to say about every game ever released, but at least he doesn't seem to claim that his games are gold while all the other games made are shit.

Also another thing is that gamers are hypocrites. When they say they want games to get more critic they mean games that they don't like. A Nintendo fanboy often wants to see someone rip Call of Duty a new one, but when someone says the new Mario game seems uninspired they get their rage pants on. I used to be like that myself so I know what I'm talking about.
 

dragonswarrior

Also a Social Justice Warrior
Feb 13, 2012
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BreakfastMan said:
Kahunaburger said:
BreakfastMan said:
But, don't we want more criticism of games? If so, why should we shut up one of the most prominent critics of modern gaming? Seems counter productive. :/
Disagreeing with someone or disregarding someone's opinion =/= shutting someone up.
Well, the OP seemed to be saying that we should not pay attention to his criticism (because... reasons?), which amounts to shutting him up in my mind. It seemed, essentially, "I don't like that you are harshly criticizing stuff that I like, however valid they may be, so I am not going to listen to them and I am going to encourage everyone else to ignore them too, because reasons". Might have been a poor choice of words on my part, but I do not think we should disregard criticism that is harsh.
See... Here is the thing. I was trying to keep my original post pretty short, which... well, basically cut out what I really wanted to say. After the first two posters called me out on my silliness I didn't really feel like trying to say "Oh no!! I actually meant this!!" because I always thought doing such things was also silly.

To me, not paying attention to someone's criticism because it is invalid is not the same as shutting them up. Sure it makes their reach and voice smaller, but if their criticism is invalid then this needed to happen anyway. This has nothing to do with the harsh criticism, which I actually like, and everything to do with the fact that Mr. Blow doesn't really seem to understand key parts of basic human interaction.

I... Could give you an in depth reason for why I said what I did. Do you really want it though? This thread seems kind of dead, and my OP was kinda silly anyway. I'm more than willing to let the actual meat of the matter die.
 

Chairman Miaow

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Nov 18, 2009
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dragonswarrior said:
BreakfastMan said:
But, don't we want more criticism of games? If so, why should we shut up one of the most prominent critics of modern gaming? Seems counter productive. :/
For me it was because he was giving the wrong kind of criticism i.e he was criticizing something he couldn't really understand. Also, I said it was safe to ignore him, not that we should shut him up.

Thyunda said:
I saw it more as the abuse leading him to separate himself from humanity, and it was this isolation that invalidated his opinion in the larger scheme of things - the implication that, say 'Call of Duty', is juvenile is just insulting to its entire playerbase.

However...yeah. I've seen this fairly often. Bullying, abuse, grow up an outcast, learn to hate humanity, decide anything that's simple and casual is childish and gain that superiority complex.

What the hell happened to me? I got bullied. A lot. Set on fire once. And I'm the friendliest, most sociable ************ you could ever hope to meet.

I'm worried that I might be the broken one here.
Ah!! Yea!! That was what I was trying to say!! Man... Why couldn't I have your awesome wordsmith abilities? *sighs* *laughs* Shows what I get for jumping the gun and not thinking things through. Thank you good sir.

And I wouldn't worry too much about being broken. If you decide you are and there is nothing you can do... then that is what will happen. If you decide you are broken but hey, you're going to be awesome anyway, then that is what will happen.
I completely got that from your first post, I just think people have misunderstood you. I don't know whether what you are saying is true or not, I would need to look into it much more, but I think I got what you were saying.
 

Thyunda

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dragonswarrior said:
BreakfastMan said:
But, don't we want more criticism of games? If so, why should we shut up one of the most prominent critics of modern gaming? Seems counter productive. :/
For me it was because he was giving the wrong kind of criticism i.e he was criticizing something he couldn't really understand. Also, I said it was safe to ignore him, not that we should shut him up.

Thyunda said:
I saw it more as the abuse leading him to separate himself from humanity, and it was this isolation that invalidated his opinion in the larger scheme of things - the implication that, say 'Call of Duty', is juvenile is just insulting to its entire playerbase.

However...yeah. I've seen this fairly often. Bullying, abuse, grow up an outcast, learn to hate humanity, decide anything that's simple and casual is childish and gain that superiority complex.

What the hell happened to me? I got bullied. A lot. Set on fire once. And I'm the friendliest, most sociable ************ you could ever hope to meet.

I'm worried that I might be the broken one here.
Ah!! Yea!! That was what I was trying to say!! Man... Why couldn't I have your awesome wordsmith abilities? *sighs* *laughs* Shows what I get for jumping the gun and not thinking things through. Thank you good sir.

And I wouldn't worry too much about being broken. If you decide you are and there is nothing you can do... then that is what will happen. If you decide you are broken but hey, you're going to be awesome anyway, then that is what will happen.
Now you're a cheery, energetic chap, that's refreshing to see. Now I've got this ingrained disdain for 'artistic' games. I just get the impression that they're just being pretentious, and really, games should be about enjoying the ride, not proving anything. Art made for art's sake is not art but a farce. You write music for the love of the rhythm, you paint for the love of the picture, and you dance the verbal tango, not to prove you can, but because it flows.
 

BreakfastMan

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Jul 22, 2010
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Yopaz said:
BreakfastMan said:
But, don't we want more criticism of games? If so, why should we shut up one of the most prominent critics of modern gaming? Seems counter productive. :/
He's not really a prominent critic. He basically disregarded an entire medium with the exception of his own work which in fact isn't that special to begin with. Yahtzee is a game critic who almost always got something bad to say about every game ever released, but at least he doesn't seem to claim that his games are gold while all the other games made are shit.
I dunno, if he got an article on here, he seems fairly prominent to me. Maybe I just have my standards too low as to what it means to be prominent. XD
Also another thing is that gamers are hypocrites. When they say they want games to get more critic they mean games that they don't like. A Nintendo fanboy often wants to see someone rip Call of Duty a new one, but when someone says the new Mario game seems uninspired they get their rage pants on. I used to be like that myself so I know what I'm talking about.
I know that, but I was trying not say such things in my post. It tends to start flame wars and insult people when I do... So, I decided to avoid that.
 

dragonswarrior

Also a Social Justice Warrior
Feb 13, 2012
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BreakfastMan said:
dragonswarrior said:
BreakfastMan said:
But, don't we want more criticism of games? If so, why should we shut up one of the most prominent critics of modern gaming? Seems counter productive. :/
For me it was because he was giving the wrong kind of criticism i.e he was criticizing something he couldn't really understand. Also, I said it was safe to ignore him, not that we should shut him up.
Well, A: I don't think your points on why we should not listen to him hold up when put under scrutiny (being all guesswork, conjecture, and hearsay), and B: If you never pay attention to whatever someone says and consistently ignore them, it has the same effect as shutting them up. As in, it shuts them up. I myself have experienced the effect on multiple occasions.
A: Like I said, I could explain, but I'd rather just let this die.

B: Now this is a valid point. However you are making the assumption that I am ignoring him without first listening to him. My friend, I read that whole damn article despite the fact that at points it made me physically ill just so that I would avoid the trap you think I fell into. I then gave myself hours to consider it, turning the ideas expressed and the information gathered obsessively around in my head. I came up with the conclusion that his opinions on gaming as a whole were invalid because of reasons. I decided to share this. Now this is happening.

Yes, I really should have been better about this. I freely admit that. I will attempt to learn and grow from this to the best of my ability. I also understand where you are coming from, I have had the same thing happen to me. So perhaps my silliness runs even deeper then I first thought... But eh. I am still pretty certain that his views on games and what other people like is invalid. For reasons.