Why WoW players moved to FF14 - An Analysis

CriticalGaming

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So buckle in right now folks, this here is something I've been thinking about for the better part of the year as I've personally gotten more and more into FF14 as the MMO to replace WoW in my life. This post will be long and frankly I don't blame anyone for not reading it or giving up, however I believe my thoughts on this have some interesting value. At the end or in a follow up post there will be a TL;DR if you so wish.

Let's begin:

It's no surprise that World of Warcraft has been struggling to maintain it's playerbase for a long time now. The last six or so years have been frought with lackluster expansions mixed in with some shitty business practices that have put fans off the game. From poorly designed systems, to grinds that make the game feel like a job more than ever before, topped with a sprinkling of developers refusing to listen to any fan feedback. WoW's problems stem from a couple of big issues, the first being that Blizzard thought it was too big of a game to fail and the second issue was the refusal to heed the warnings of players who outcried for ages that the game isn't what it should be.

First let's go back to Blizzard's core ideas and what led to WoW being so successful in the first place. To be perfectly honest, Blizzard was never a great game designer, rather they were really good at copying other people and then adding a little bit of quality of life changes to make the gameplay a smoother experience. Starcraft and Warcraft were RTS games that didn't do much different from Command and Conquer except make them less complex to learn. Ease of access became the golden goose that Blizzard would chase until this very day.

World of Warcraft rose from the core designs of Everquest, with all the player punishments scaled back. When you die you don't lose exp, you just have a little runback which costs time but nothing more. Broken equipment can be repaired instead of having to be replaced. Flight paths allowed for large time saving travsal of bigger chunks of the world. Quests were more detailed and easier to find (even if still needing player mods to totally improve), and the game in general gave you directions. Instead of plopping you into a world and saying, "Alright go get 'em.", Wow had obvious quests and there was a flow to character progression through the many many zones in the game.

Blizzard took Everquest and added quality of life to it to make World of Warcraft so successful. While there were some outside factors to this success as well like the improvements of home internet starting to blossom around the country at this time, I'm not really going to factor outside influences in this just for the sake of focus.

For the next two expansions WoW kept the same cycles of gameplay and progression, and during this time the playerbase grew and grew because it was a formula that worked. Both The Burning Crusade and Wraith of the Lich King Expansion Sets followed the same core gameplay loop. New zones to quest your character up to max level in. Normal dungeons to get starter gear, Heroic dungeons to get geared for raids, then several raid dungeons with each dungeon being a little harder with a little bit better gear each time. They built their expansions like ladders, with clear steps for all the players to follow, and the freedom for players to stop at whatever step on the ladder they were comfortable with.

The Wraith of the Lich King also introduced the Group Finder, an automated tool that would allow players to automatically find groups and run dungeons without having to beg for groups in city chats. Many people use this tool as the signfiying point in which WoW began to "die", stating that this tool removed all reasoning for social interacting in the game and thus without the need for making friends, the players began to leave. I strongly disagree with this, Group Finder and LFR (looking for Raids, basically random grouped raids that are very easy compared to heroic and mythic levels) have almost nothing to do with the drop in playerbase.

Remember at the end of Lich King the playerbase was at an all time high.

Then came the Cataclysm.

Cataclysm is the expansion in which Blizzard broke the cycle with how all previous WoW content had been presented up until now. Remember the ladder I explained a while ago. Well in Cata they threw the ladder away. With player numbers at an all time high, Blizzard decided to completely rebuild the "Vanilla" portion of the game. They Realm Reborned the game before Final Fantasy did it. All for the sake of making the 1-60 leveling experience better for new players. Both previous expansions up to this point focused on building up the players to bigger and better heights from the previous expansion. But in Cataclysm they ignored that, for the sake of trying to bring in even MORE new players. WoW's first sin, Greed. They already had millions upon millions of players (I think it peaked at 25million, maybe more) and still they wanted more. This focus on an entire rebuilding of 1-60 content for new players, meant that there wasn't much new for players to do who were already level capped. In fact Cata was the first expansion to only offer 5 additional levels for players. TBC and LK both offered 10 levels with entire new landmasses to explore. Cata offered 5 levels and 5 new zones scattered randomly around the world. This did not work for players and they began to leave.

With not enough to do for end game players in Cata, Blizzard launched Mists of Pandaria to seemingly return to form. It followed the same basic ladder that TBC and LK had. With an entire country of new zones, new race, and a new class. Plus it added Pokemon into the game, who doesn't love Pokemon!? Hearing the complaints from players in Cata about not enough to do Blizzard desided to remove the daily quest limit. Where before you could only do 20ish daily quests every day, now you could as many as you wanted and Blizzard made sure there was a shitload of dailies to do. Problem was....it was too much. Reputations became a grind and because you could do them ALL everyday, players felt like they HAD to do them all everyday until they were done which took months. Addmittedly this was a player created problem, but also a Blizzard problem. They allowed players to make WoW a second job, while at the same time they did nothing to prepare for players doing this. Blizzard likely expected players to take their time, instead of burning through all the dailies and reputations as fast as possible. Which meant the players finished and were once again left with nothing to do. Blizzard wasn't able to churn out patch content and new raids and new things to do. On top of that the next expansion was a long way off. Leading to one of the longest content droughts in Wow history.

Content Droughts would plauge WoW forever thereafter.

(Word Limit, continued in next post)
 
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CriticalGaming

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Every expansion would continue to build on a fundamental mistake. Content droughts. In order to counter act there content drought problem Blizzard did not ramp up production, or build things in a way that would allow them to line up patches at a reasonable rate. No, instead their solution was to add gameplay systems that even hardcore players could not burn through quickly. Time sinks. Grinds. Most of these systems would be mandatory in some way as well, meaning even casual players who didn't burn out on content quickly would be stuck in this cycle.

So with Warlords of Draenor, blizzard introduced the mission table. This system was a perpetual system in which the play would send minions on missions that lasted for hours or even days in return for insanely good rewards. This allow built into the garrison system in which the player could build a base that would take care of their every need. Professions, gathering, dungeons, almost every gameplay element of WoW could be done without ever leaving their garrison. Which meant that once a player was done leveling, they spent the rest of their time in the garrison either monitoring these missions or queing up in random dungeons. It made the experience grindy and somehow less engaging and thus more people left.

Every expansion since introduced or build upon a system like this in which the player was forced to monitor or do something everyday and there would never be a point in which the player could be "done". Even now in Shadowlands this system is still there, bigger and worst than ever before. What used to be played everyday in a second job like manner is now forced to be played in a job-like manner to keep up. Systems like the Heart of Azeroth, and Conduit Energy, all grant player power which meant if you aren't pushing for more power everyday, then you are falling behind in a system that players really really do not like. There is no ladder anymore, no clear steps to achieve and be happy with, just an endless fucking wheel of grindy bullshit for the sake of keeping your numbers at the proper level.

And so players have had enough.

It's not that they don't want to play an MMO anymore, but rather they just don't want WoW anymore. So many WoW players are flocking to other games, and there are many MMO's on the market right now to choose from. Star Wars the Old Republic, Guild Wars 2, Elder Scrolls online, some people have even gone for a retro experience in Runescape.

However it seems that the majority of WoW players have moved to one MMO above all else.

Final Fantasy 14.

As we all know now, FF14 originally was a pile of dogshit. Laggy, broken, outdated, poorly designed and terrible to play. FF14 had no redeeming qualities and they were forced to destroy it.

Only for it to return as a WoW-inspired MMO. Yoshi-P and Square used Blizzard's ideas against them. Much in the same way that Blizzard modeled Wow after Everquest with quality of life and player friendly improvements, Yoshi-P did the same thing with FF14 and WoW. He took what made WoW so popular and added even more player friend design choices into the game.

Wow players complained that they had to redo reputation grinds on alt characters when they wanted to play another class. Anytime you wanted (or needed) to level another class in WoW, it needed to be an entirely new character which mean all the grinds would have to be repeated for every single alt you made. Final Fantasy 14 removed this repetitive grind entirely by allowing the player to use every class on a single character. Which mean that all your professions and reputations remained no matter what class you were playing at any given moment.

Some raid bosses in WoW were very hard and groups would spend hours on attempts. However because of the run back through the dungeon after death, after a certain period of time the raid's trash mobs would respawn forcing the groups to reclear the trash mobs before getting back to their boss attempts. In Final Fantasy 14 there is no running back after death because raid bosses are just single room encounters. You die and respawn instantly in the boss room no problem. And for the biggest raid dungeons in which there is trash, once the group reaches the boss if you die to that boss there is a teleport that takes you back to the boss pretty much right away. FF14 removes the downtime in dungeons because it was only ever a time sink and served no purpose.

One of the other big problems WoW has is a lore problem. Most of WoW's story is told through novels that are sold outside of the game. You have to read the novels if you want to truly dig into the story of WoW because the story of WoW has never really been told in the game. In FF14, well I shouldn't really have to explain this one, I think we all know that the story is both the main quest of the entire MMO, but also very well done.

(Word Limit again)
 
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CriticalGaming

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Finally you have those ladders I mentioned in WoW. What used to be very clearly defined progression steps in a given expansion has melted away into perpetual systems that never end in an attempt to make the player grind through long content droughts.

Final Fantasy 14 not only has kept a clear ladder system in every expansion. They've also kept to a consistant content patch cycle, every single time. WE know when every patch will release and we know what content is in every patch. It follows a pattern that they have not broken in 4 complete game releases.

And finally on top of all of that. FF14 respects the player's time. There is no system in the game that runs forever. Even the longest grinds have very clear end points in which the player can step back and be "done" with a task. With a content cycle that also allows players to take breaks and play other games while waiting for the specific new content that they want. Yoshi-P encourages players to take breaks and only come to FF14 when there is something they want to do.

And that's the basics of it all really.

TL;DR:

Players have chosen FF14 as their post-WoW MMO because FF14 has taken everything that made WoW great back in the hay day, and made it even more player friendly. They've used Blizzard's own old design philosiphies against them, and maintained consistancy from expansion to expansion to make sure that the player gets more of the experience they love every single time. On top of a solid patch cycle that runs like clockwork to ensure there is never any real content droughts. And even if there are (depending on the player) they encourage players to take breaks and play other games. Essentially FF14 is providing an even more player friendly version of what people used to love about WoW.
 
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BrawlMan

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As we all know now, FF14 originally was a pile of dogshit. Laggy, broken, outdated, poorly designed and terrible to play. FF14 had no redeeming qualities and they were forced to destroy it.

Only for it to return as a WoW-inspired MMO. Yoshi-P and Square used Blizzard's ideas against them. Much in the same way that Blizzard modeled Wow after Everquest with quality of life and player friendly improvements, Yoshi-P did the same thing with FF14 and WoW. He took what made WoW so popular and added even more player friend design choices into the game.


The cycle begins anew and continues. The same thing can happen to Square again, if they choose to act like dicks. I have faith in the Yoshi, but he will not be there forever.
 
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meiam

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Doesn't WoW still have a far larger player base than FF14? Iirc it's still the most played mmo (that might only hold for western market though, dunno about the chinese market but they very well could have their own carbon copy of WoW with like 10x the player base).

Also Cata did have a bunch of new areas for level cap players, roughly the same size as previous expansion, it wasn't on a new continent or anything but it was still pretty large. There also was roughly the same amount of raid/dungeon than previous exp with some new PvP stuff. And the vanilla area really needed the face lift, they were mostly empty lifeless areas with few interesting quests. I think player started to go lower during cata for the simple reason that the game was getting old, mmo were losing popularity all across the board (moba were becoming the new big online thing) and the story moved on from stuff related to warcraft 3 into enemy that most players had no idea who they were.

Can't comment on the content pace as I haven't played WoW in forever, but they both seem to have the same schedule of major expansion every 2 years.
 

CriticalGaming

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Doesn't WoW still have a far larger player base than FF14?
FF14 surpassed WoW earlier this year in terms of active users at any given time. WoW technically has more acounts, but doesn't appear to have more active players anymore. Sub numbers for WoW are estamated to be around 2million or less. It's hard to tell because once the numbers really started to fall, Blizzard stopped reporting them openly.
 
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meiam

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FF14 surpassed WoW earlier this year in terms of active users at any given time. WoW technically has more acounts, but doesn't appear to have more active players anymore. Sub numbers for WoW are estamated to be around 2million or less. It's hard to tell because once the numbers really started to fall, Blizzard stopped reporting them openly.
Dunno how accurate this website is but it seems like the two are hovering in the 1-3 mill numbers but WoW easily beat FF14 when you compare peak numbers.


So to me that seem more like WoW players aren't switching to FF14, they're just not playing mmo anymore.
 

CriticalGaming

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Dunno how accurate this website is but it seems like the two are hovering in the 1-3 mill numbers but WoW easily beat FF14 when you compare peak numbers.


So to me that seem more like WoW players aren't switching to FF14, they're just not playing mmo anymore.
Those charts say that Wow only has 1.1million daily players, while FF14 has over 3 million players PER DAY! Looks like FF14 is 3X more popular right now.

Yes the life time number of people who have played wow before is 110million but that isn't accurate to active numbers at all and is kind of the point when I talk about how big of decine wow has suffered. I think wow peaked at 15ish million active users during the LK days, but then has done nothing but decline ever since.

If you look at that daily activity graph for WoW you'll notice a big peak right at the end, and that's because they launched a new patch this past Tuesday which adds no new content but does reduce the grinding required in this expansion's perpetual system.

Frankly I don't like this site's data immediately because it seems to be tracking total number of accounts created ever, and not necessarily peak users. 110million users just seems to suggest the total number of accounts made since WoW's creation, not any sort of peak userbase. And because of this lifetime number, the site is not adjusting it's MMO ranking. Wow is number 1 strictly based on created accounts, and will likely never change.

Also the data isn't even consistant. Look at this https://mmo-population.com/top/2021

You'll see that New World is rank 5 with 826k active users. Meanwhile Wow Classic, DEstiny 2, Runescape and ESO have more active people playing yet are lower on the list for some reason.
 

Samtemdo8

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I hate the fact a lot of youtubers transitioned to it, it comes off as them being fucking sell outs and I hate it.

I still wish for dedicated WOW content on Youtube.
 

meiam

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Oh I wasn't really looking at ranking I was looking more at numbers over the past 12 months. WoW peaked at 7 mil (prob after last exp?), spent most of the year in the 2-3 mil and is now at a 12 months low of around 1 mil. FF14 seemed to have mostly hovered around the 2 mil marks with a similar low of around 1 mil. If there really was a large movement from WoW to FF14 I'd expect it's numbers to approach WoW peak, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Also the two seem to have similar trend, a drop in number in may/june, followed by a rebound in august/september (where it seem like WoW had more active user than FF14). If there really was a strong movement, then the two would be mirror images of each others as player moved from one to the others. And FF14 is doing relatively well for MMO (a genre past its prime) but those number are very far from peak WoW and even some other mmo of the past. To me it just seem like mmo are dying out and 14 is a relatively bright spot in a bleak landscape by having a modest but increasing playerbase.
 

CriticalGaming

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I hate the fact a lot of youtubers transitioned to it, it comes off as them being fucking sell outs and I hate it.
Youtubers have to go where their audience wants. If people aren't interested in WoW anymore, or not as much, then they have to at LEAST diversify their content. Otherwise there is no Youtuber because they can't live off content that doesn't get any views or interaction.

The days of Youtubing as a passion are fucking gone buddy.
 
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Samtemdo8

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Youtubers have to go where their audience wants. If people aren't interested in WoW anymore, or not as much, then they have to at LEAST diversify their content. Otherwise there is no Youtuber because they can't live off content that doesn't get any views or interaction.

The days of Youtubing as a passion are fucking gone buddy.
Fuck that shit then and Fuck Final Fantasy 14.

Yeah I'm livid a bit on this topic
 

BrawlMan

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Fuck that shit then and Fuck Final Fantasy 14.

Yeah I'm livid a bit on this topic
Dude, you're coming off as that guy who gets upset when their favorite Indie band gets popular or goes mainstream. Who the hell cares that some YouTubers are jumping on Final Fantasy 14? Don't answer that, because I don't care. The game was crap when it started and it got better, so of course people are going to flood to it. I don't know why you acting so surprised or upset. If you don't want to watch it, then don't watch it. It's that simple. You're literally getting angry at nothing. You're acting like a kid crying for a toy they can't have. I swear you use the term sell out too much. It's a word that has lost meaning years ago. So for me, that's her loss meaning during the late 90s and early 2000. They're all making money somehow. Deal with it.


The days of Youtubing as a passion are fucking gone buddy.
Not completely gone, but I can see where you're coming from. There's still quite a few that do the things, because they love what they're doing. Money and throwing their name out there it's still a factor of course, but they're not just doing it under the shallow is pretense. You just got to take extra steps to find who they are.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Oh I wasn't really looking at ranking I was looking more at numbers over the past 12 months. WoW peaked at 7 mil (prob after last exp?), spent most of the year in the 2-3 mil and is now at a 12 months low of around 1 mil. FF14 seemed to have mostly hovered around the 2 mil marks with a similar low of around 1 mil. If there really was a large movement from WoW to FF14 I'd expect it's numbers to approach WoW peak, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Also the two seem to have similar trend, a drop in number in may/june, followed by a rebound in august/september (where it seem like WoW had more active user than FF14). If there really was a strong movement, then the two would be mirror images of each others as player moved from one to the others. And FF14 is doing relatively well for MMO (a genre past its prime) but those number are very far from peak WoW and even some other mmo of the past. To me it just seem like mmo are dying out and 14 is a relatively bright spot in a bleak landscape by having a modest but increasing playerbase.
You can't keep comparing MMO's to WoW's peak. That peak was crazy and nothing will get that high ever again.

There are a lot of factors that showcase FF14's newly boosted player numbers. At one point the game sold out completely. https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-14-digital-versions-sold-out/

Servers have been so busy and they've been unable to increase server space due to supply chain issues and have issued an apology about that.

My que times have gone from 2minute to sometimes over 20 when trying to log in.

Now despite all this, yeah it's not going to hit WoW's peak. But that isn't because MMO's are dying, rather it is because there is a lot more choice in online gaming. When WoW peaked there wasn't a lot of cooperative online gameplay available to people. An MMO was one of the only online multiplayer experiences out there that allowed you to group with a lot of friends and play together.

Now a days, more and more games are trying to do that. Sometimes they suck balls like The Avengers game, and other times they are pretty decent like Destiny or GTAonline. There is a lot more choice so the playerbase in general is more spread out.

FF14's growth is very very recent though and it seems to stem from long term WoW people finally giving up on the game. Blizzard has refused to ever listen to the players and now it's finally crumbling around them, the lawsuit also doesn't help matters in this regard but I don't think the lawsuit is a big cause itself.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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I hate the fact a lot of youtubers transitioned to it, it comes off as them being fucking sell outs and I hate it.

I still wish for dedicated WOW content on Youtube.
As someone who used to make YouTube content: If you want it, make it. But don't expect other people to dedicate their time just to give you what you want.
 

Drathnoxis

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The word limit on the site was raised from 10 000 characters to 50 000 a while back (also image cap to 10), you're sitting at around 14k characters with all 3 combined. Also I was able to post the entire thing as a single post in a test in another thread (since deleted). If you ran into problems posting this it was something other than the word count.
 

Gordon_4

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A point well made, yet I find myself decidedly not drawn to Final Fantasy 14 in the slightest. Guess I’ll just be one of those sad bastards who hangs around until they turn the lights off in Azeroth.
 
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Fallen Soldier

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Personally don’t care for the game since I don’t like Final Fantasy. But it’s not a crime for youtubers to move on to something else they prefer. That shouldn’t be so controversial.
 

Samtemdo8

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Dude, you're coming off as that guy who gets upset when their favorite Indie band gets popular or goes mainstream. Who the hell cares that some YouTubers are jumping on Final Fantasy 14? Don't answer that, because I don't care. The game was crap when it started and it got better, so of course people are going to flood to it. I don't know why you acting so surprised or upset. If you don't want to watch it, then don't watch it. It's that simple. You're literally getting angry at nothing. You're acting like a kid crying for a toy they can't have. I swear you use the term sell out too much. It's a word that has lost meaning years ago. So for me, that's her loss meaning during the late 90s and early 2000. They're all making money somehow. Deal with it.



Not completely gone, but I can see where you're coming from. There's still quite a few that do the things, because they love what they're doing. Money and throwing their name out there it's still a factor of course, but they're not just doing it under the shallow is pretense. You just got to take extra steps to find who they are.
As I said, livid. Internally that is. I'm not going to bars getting drunk to drown my sorrows on the state of things with WOW.
 

Eacaraxe

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Okay...

Ease of access? Really? Vanilla and BC had attunements that rivaled old school EQ's in pain-in-the-assedness. Attunements that had you grinding and running all over the damn place. 40-man dungeons that needed a single drop from 10-man dungeons to attune, in other words four groups had to run a single 10-man ten times apiece, to get an entire raid in the instance. Reputation-gated attunements (you wanna talk about time sinks, let's talk about time sinks). The SSC attunement was so grindy and grueling that it broke guilds before they even got in the damn raid.

WotLK was what broke that mold, with easy and comparatively quick attunements.

Same for dungeon and raid difficulty. Classic was such a pinnacle of bad encounter design, players had to create and download mods to run the damn things (namely, Whispercast and Decurse), then instead of rebalance encounter mechanics such that players didn't need tools, they balanced later (AQ and Naxx) encounters around those tools. That's why Noth was so infamous before WotLK, they made Cripple and Curse/Wrath so hard-hitting to make the mechanic a test of how fast healers could spam their Decurse buttons.

LFG tool was an entirely different bag of cats. It "killed" the game because it allowed players to be unprecedentedly toxic without consequence. Players could be dicks at will, kick at will, and leave at will with the only real penalty being having to re-queue. Which is precisely how we ended up with shit like Gearscore in Wrath.

Prior to LFG tool and cross-server grouping, if you were an ass or an idiot in an instance, you got a rep for it. Players had and shared blacklists, and if you were on one for good reason, you didn't get to group until you cleaned up your act or learned how to play. Conversely if you were good and well-behaved, players likewise had whitelists. Because those were the days when one bad player regardless of role could wipe a party at the drop of a hat, by misapplying CC, breaking CC early, missing a stun or interrupt, or any other number of potential fuckups -- and one good player could save the party from a fuckup potentially causing a wipe.

And players part of a core group of about a hundred players per server, who'd PUG level 60 and raid content, had to get to know each other, their strengths and weaknesses, and what they were good at. That's how I ended up doing most of my raiding back in the day despite never being in a raiding guild; members of raiding guilds knew my character's name, knew my rep as a damn good healer who knew how to play their class and didn't act the fool on loot rolls, and picked me up for their raids when they were short a paladin. In vanilla, I was in Naxx more and progressed further in it, than members of guilds who did Naxx.

Wrath went big because compared to the previous two expansions, with the exception of some 10-man and heroic content, it was all faceroll. Even healing was faceroll in Wrath.

Which was where Cataclysm "fucked up". Blizzard realized they'd made Wrath too faceroll, and tried to re-implement mana conservation, aggro management, and CC. The 1-60 content didn't have a damn thing to do with it; players got to max level, realized their skillsets had either atrophied to nothing (or in the case of Wrath babies, never developed it), and instead of sack up and git gud, they threw tantrums and started quitting.

WoW always had content droughts, from vanilla on. 1.x content felt rushed, and had to be replaced for the most part in Cataclysm, because it was -- players were getting to the endgame, blowing through it faster than Blizzard had intended, and getting pissed because they had no more WoW to play. That's why Blizzard's model of designing for raiders during vanilla and BC was so fucked up, and part and parcel of why only 2-3% of its player base had experienced raiding content by the time Wrath came along.

The worst content droughts in the game were at the end of Mists and Warlords, sure, but people love to forget the third-longest content drought in the game was at the end of Wrath. The difference being, later expansions returned to the faceroll model of content, and with the addition of LFR tool made progression so fuck-easy the content drought was actually noticeable and noteworthy.