Wii Are the Champions

Shamus Young

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Wii Are the Champions

Despite what you may think, casual gamers are not the embodiment of evil. After all, you were once a casual gamer yourself.

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Cubilone

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An interesting article. I'd like to add that a lot of the discrimination against "casual" gamers that play something on Wii is from seeing how a lot of the people that were discriminating games and gamers themselves as "nerdy" or introverted are now proudly playing Wii Sports or Wii Fit, now it's so trendy and all. I don't think anyone has a problem with people getting to know the sport the easy way (the only way, perhaps). But I'll ask you this: how many girls that have been playing The Sims since 2000 are now avid gamers? Few to be sure.
 

Jiki

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I like how elegantly you interweave information, sarcasm and platitudes. Moar. :>
 

Severus Ape

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I think it was mentioned on the Listen UP podcast the other week that there is this idea that we, the few, the proud, the hardcore, have this arrogant attitude that if *we* haven't heard of a game then it doesn't matter; that if *we* don't like it then it's not good. The barbarians are at the gates, and bringing their pet simulators and hidden object games with them, and we try to fend them off with our first-person shooters and sandbox games--as if one set is categorically better than the other, and we are the arbiters to judge because... because we're the ones on the insular message boards, screeching to the choir?
 

Bofus Teefus

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Excellent points! Personally, I don't like the Wii for the often repeated reasons (bland design etc), but I love that it's a newer system that previous non-gamers are not intimidated by. I'm glad it's doing so well, and bringing in casual gamers.
 

gmer412

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Bofus Teefus said:
Excellent points! Personally, I don't like the Wii for the often repeated reasons (bland design etc), but I love that it's a newer system that previous non-gamers are not intimidated by. I'm glad it's doing so well, and bringing in casual gamers.
NMH, World of Goo was on the Wii, Warioware, Boom Blox. It has just as much good and bland design as the other two consoles.
 

Bofus Teefus

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gmer412 said:
Bofus Teefus said:
Excellent points! Personally, I don't like the Wii for the often repeated reasons (bland design etc), but I love that it's a newer system that previous non-gamers are not intimidated by. I'm glad it's doing so well, and bringing in casual gamers.
NMH, World of Goo was on the Wii, Warioware, Boom Blox. It has just as much good and bland design as the other two consoles.
I'm open to the idea that my Wii brush may be a bit too broad. I haven't seen much of what has come out on it since Umbrella Chronicles some game not worth mentioning, and was already disenchanted by that point. My main point was that aside from my own enjoyment or lack thereof, I'm glad it's around.
 

Dorian Cornelius Jasper

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I'm with Shamus on this one. Despite the fact that it's not geared towards upmarket or midmarket gamers, it's very existence is a boon. The fact is a healthy industry will be able to cater to all levels, from the connoisseur to the curious. The Wii manages to do the latter in a way that no 32-button fragfest or horde of slavering fanboys could even hope to accomplish.

Too bad the aside contrasting arrogant jocks with arrogant nerds might never reach the eyes of those who need to read it most.
 

HobbesMkii

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I would definitely play Bejeweled 6 if it's subtitle was "The Jewelening"
 

Shamus Young

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Severus Ape said:
I think it was mentioned on the Listen UP podcast the other week that there is this idea that we, the few, the proud, the hardcore, have this arrogant attitude that if *we* haven't heard of a game then it doesn't matter; that if *we* don't like it then it's not good. The barbarians are at the gates, and bringing their pet simulators and hidden object games with them, and we try to fend them off with our first-person shooters and sandbox games--as if one set is categorically better than the other, and we are the arbiters to judge because... because we're the ones on the insular message boards, screeching to the choir?
That is a fantastic point.

My wife & daighters have played all the Harvest moon games, My Sims, My Sims Kingdom, and all the various Animal Crossing titles.

I've seen the guidebooks for those games. It's pretty hard to call them "casual" at this point. They're just... less deadly.
 

Joeshie

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Sorry, but I was never a casual gamer. My first real gaming experience started with Doom and Wolfenstein 3D.

Regardless, I agree and disagree with you on some points. Yes, most gamers of today who recall the "glory" days of NES and SNES are mostly recalling games that could easily be called casual titles. Most platformers of those days were overly simplistic in their gameplay and tended to rely on ridiculous amounts of repetition.

However, I don't know where you get the idea that any of the new wave of casual gamers is going to actually jump to more involvement with gaming. Most of the new casual gamers, (moms, wives, grandpa, etc.) won't ever make that jump to more complex and superb games because they just don't care enough. They view gaming as an occasional diversion, not a worthwhile hobby. The only people I can see as making the jump are kids in the age range of (3-10), which the Wii is very popular with. The kind of gamers that the Wii appeals to will continue to buy shitty shovelware titles because very few of them will make the jump to actually try and find good games.

Does the new wave of casual gamers have shitty taste in games? Sure they do. They don't have the experience necessary to weed out the good from the trash. This also kind of occurs in the "hardcore" market occasionally. It's the entire reason why a mediocre game like Halo became so damn popular.
 

pantsoffdanceoff

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I don't hate the Wii for pandering for casual gamers, I don't even hate casual gamers. what gets my metaphorical panties in a bunch was that they Wii wasn't advertised as a casual machine (or maybe I didn't read the right articles)at launch and thus I wasted my money on something use maybe for an hour every two months.
 

Severus Ape

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Shamus Young said:
My wife & daighters have played all the Harvest moon games, My Sims, My Sims Kingdom, and all the various Animal Crossing titles.

I've seen the guidebooks for those games. It's pretty hard to call them "casual" at this point. They're just... less deadly.
Isn't that really the underlying criterion that's being used to judge hardcore and casual? (Well, if it isn't, I'll assume so for this post.) Casual games do not, on the whole, appeal to the hardcore audience--what appeals to them are competitive adolescent male power fantasies. But that's a pretty small niche of games, why is it assumed by the hardcore that casual gamers who want to graduate to "real" games will have to find themselves attracted to those games?

But maintaining these hardcore/casual constructions is making my head hurt. What the hardcore/casual delineation does, in the end, is invalidate what one set of people consider to be fun, based on another set's criteria. Lots of people--two million, last I heard--have fun playing Carnival Games. But we hardcore pipe up and declare it shitty shovelware: "Stop having fun," we say, "that game is no good! Play a real game!" Well, shock and horror, not everybody will agree that CoD4 is the superior game. "I thought I was having fun doing something I personally enjoyed," the erstwhile casual gamer admits. "Now I see what real fun is!"

This seems to be the epiphany so many casual gamers are denying themselves by not further investigating video games (i.e., owning something beyond a Wii/iPhone/browser). Does anybody actually believe that?
 

SatansBestBuddy

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Joeshie said:
Sorry, but I was never a casual gamer. My first real gaming experience started with Doom and Wolfenstein 3D.
The point he was trying to make was that we all started out with games that are much simpler than they are today.

Doom and Wolfenstein 3D are pretty damn simple (you can't even look up or down) when you compare them to the complexity of todays games (most FPS's have crouching, free look, dual weilding, and cover systems, to point out the more obvious ones), but we don't see them as complex because we grew up playing them, and we introduced to each new concept as it was released (or don't you remember the first game you could duck in?)
 

Lvl 64 Klutz

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I was mildly offended by this article. I know you don't think all gamers are arrogant and cynical twats, but there certainly wasn't any sort of disclaimer in the article. In fact, there were quite a lot of places where your word choices almost made it sound like you WERE addressing the entire gaming community.
 

Noggy

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You know Shamus, not everyone starts out on casual games. My first real introductions to video gaming were Starcraft and Rainbow Six. I know I'm from a different generation from you, but to me your argument doesn't hold weight. I didn't get introduced to the casual market until after I was a 'hardcore gamer'. Now we have a whole new generation who's first introduction to video gaming is games like Halo. Think of it from their perspective. Halo is their frame of reference that other games are measured against. I do have a love of casual games, but can you see how people from the 'Halo Generation' might consider casual games uninteresting?
 

TheMadDoctorsCat

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OK, as someone who never played an online game apart from the occasional flash one before purchasing "Team Fortress 2" (and for whom even that is a very occasional pleasure) - what is this prejudice of which you speak? Never seen it myself... is it an American thing? Or do I just not run in the correct circles? Most of my friends go to the occasional LAN party, so I don't think I'm completely out of touch with the more "hardcore" gaming element here.
 

Shamus Young

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Noggy said:
You know Shamus, not everyone starts out on casual games. My first real introductions to video gaming were Starcraft and Rainbow Six. I know I'm from a different generation from you, but to me your argument doesn't hold weight. I didn't get introduced to the casual market until after I was a 'hardcore gamer'. Now we have a whole new generation who's first introduction to video gaming is games like Halo. Think of it from their perspective. Halo is their frame of reference that other games are measured against. I do have a love of casual games, but can you see how people from the 'Halo Generation' might consider casual games uninteresting?
"Uninteresting", yes. "Stupid, and for retards", no. Which was the argument I was addressing. I specifically left out those people - still under 18 for the most part - because they aren't buying their own consoles.

And the idea that, "I leaned to play Halo at eight years old so a 30 year old woman should jump right in and play Killzone" doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It's certainly POSSIBLE, but I think it's a lot more likely she will want something a little more accessible. I think the Wii sales are a result of this.
 

Shamus Young

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Severus Ape said:
But maintaining these hardcore/casual constructions is making my head hurt. What the hardcore/casual delineation does, in the end, is invalidate what one set of people consider to be fun, based on another set's criteria. Lots of people--two million, last I heard--have fun playing Carnival Games. But we hardcore pipe up and declare it shitty shovelware: "Stop having fun," we say, "that game is no good! Play a real game!" Well, shock and horror, not everybody will agree that CoD4 is the superior game. "I thought I was having fun doing something I personally enjoyed," the erstwhile casual gamer admits. "Now I see what real fun is!"

This seems to be the epiphany so many casual gamers are denying themselves by not further investigating video games (i.e., owning something beyond a Wii/iPhone/browser). Does anybody actually believe that?
I agree that the definition of "casual" is about as vague as it gets. When I think "casual" I think "you can learn how to play in under a minute, and play in 10-minute segments". Bejewleled, Peggle, Wii Sports.

Games like Harvest Moon, Sims, and Animal Crossing are pretty complex and are played for hours at a time. I don't see them as "casual". They're just a really cuddly sort of hardcore.

But it's not like there's a written definition somewhere. "Casual" sometimes means, "Games that are too easy" or "games where you don't shoot people", depending on who you ask.