Wii HD Could Crush PS3 Comeback, Says Pachter

[m_jim]

That depends. Thanks to the Nintendo channel, I've seen a lot of these ads (despite not watching any TV).

How they are presented seems to depend on the game. Notice that things like the Legend of Zelda, or Red Steel, (and Red Steel 2) weren't depicted with a 'family', but rather a guy in his 20's playing alone, in a relatively darkened room.

Contrast this to stuff Like Wii sports, Wii Fit, Warioware and the like, which shows people of all ages, often in groups of 4, playing together in well lit rooms, and laughing a lot.

So... Nintendo's aims with their advertising clearly depends on who the advertised game is targeted at.

Making a blanket statement about their advertising being aimed at 'families' isn't true if you consider the ads as a whole.

As for Wii HD, I think it would be counterproductive.

Why? - Because HD graphics take more money to produce. The better the graphical quality of a game, the more it costs to make. (costs have been steadily increasing with each new generation since the times of the NES onwards).

Now, why does this matter? Sure a HD wii would allow better quality for games that benefit from it.
But the counterpoint, is suddenly all the other games where graphics isn't the #1 focus look even worse than they already do by comparison.

That's even obvious with the existing Wii titles.
Compare the quality of the graphics in Super Mario Galaxy and a typical 3rd party 'casual' game and tell me the casual game doesn't look horrible by comparison.

Now imagine that the Wii could do graphics to the same standard as the 360, and tell me that situation wouldn't get 100 times worse. (as well as making it nessesary to spend even more on the high end titles than is already the case.)

When I made that statement, I knew that there were exceptions. MadWorld and Red Steel came to mind, but I didn't put them forth because if I mentioned every exception to every statement I make, I would spend most of my time backtracking and apologizing for having an opinion. I was referring to the overall ethos/spirit of the console (disclaimer: what I'm about to say is by no means the final word on the consoles' qualities). For example, the PS3 has an ethos of superior technology and elitism (it is, by the numbers, the most powerful console...Sony tells this to anyone who will listen). The XBOX 360 has an ethos of extreme competition (5 minutes on XBOX Live will show you that). The Wii, by and large, is marketed to families. For the ads that I've seen on TV, the family-centric ones far outnumber the gamer-oriented ones. There are dark, brooding titles for hardcore gamers, but they are few and far between.

I'm not trying to insult the Wii or Wii owners, but to me, it is very obvious that the console occupies a certain market niche: family friendly gaming console.

 

[slopeslider]

HD? On a console that is on-par with the original xbox?

Its more like 1.3X xbox.

 

[Uncompetative]

HD graphics does not take more time and money to produce. You could put the NURBs used by Super Mario 64 through a better GPU and get crisp HD visuals without "vaseline-o-vision". Artist created textures would have to be replaced by Procedurally Generated stuff, so when you walked up to Princess Peaches castle the walls didn't go all super-blockified, but kept looking like stone.

Most of what Nintendo produce is fantasy, so you can't complain that it doesn't look 'Photorealistic'.

 

[cambodiancam]

If i wanted a hd game system i play a 360 or ps3. I play the wii for games that only the wii can do . I don't play the wii for state of the art graphics. On side note has this guy ever been right?

I was just thinking this exact thing..

 

[Kailias]

This is a simple problem. The Wii won't sell to the hardcore audience until their library includes more hardcore games. I doubt casual gamers would be interested in HD games.

 

[Kazturkey]

No, he's wrong, mainstream/Hardcore gamers don't just not play the Wii becaue of graphics limitations, the controls just plain suck.

 

[CrystalShadow]

That depends. Thanks to the Nintendo channel, I've seen a lot of these ads (despite not watching any TV).

How they are presented seems to depend on the game. Notice that things like the Legend of Zelda, or Red Steel, (and Red Steel 2) weren't depicted with a 'family', but rather a guy in his 20's playing alone, in a relatively darkened room.

Contrast this to stuff Like Wii sports, Wii Fit, Warioware and the like, which shows people of all ages, often in groups of 4, playing together in well lit rooms, and laughing a lot.

So... Nintendo's aims with their advertising clearly depends on who the advertised game is targeted at.

Making a blanket statement about their advertising being aimed at 'families' isn't true if you consider the ads as a whole.

As for Wii HD, I think it would be counterproductive.

Why? - Because HD graphics take more money to produce. The better the graphical quality of a game, the more it costs to make. (costs have been steadily increasing with each new generation since the times of the NES onwards).

Now, why does this matter? Sure a HD wii would allow better quality for games that benefit from it.
But the counterpoint, is suddenly all the other games where graphics isn't the #1 focus look even worse than they already do by comparison.

That's even obvious with the existing Wii titles.
Compare the quality of the graphics in Super Mario Galaxy and a typical 3rd party 'casual' game and tell me the casual game doesn't look horrible by comparison.

Now imagine that the Wii could do graphics to the same standard as the 360, and tell me that situation wouldn't get 100 times worse. (as well as making it nessesary to spend even more on the high end titles than is already the case.)

When I made that statement, I knew that there were exceptions. MadWorld and Red Steel came to mind, but I didn't put them forth because if I mentioned every exception to every statement I make, I would spend most of my time backtracking and apologizing for having an opinion. I was referring to the overall ethos/spirit of the console (disclaimer: what I'm about to say is by no means the final word on the consoles' qualities). For example, the PS3 has an ethos of superior technology and elitism (it is, by the numbers, the most powerful console...Sony tells this to anyone who will listen). The XBOX 360 has an ethos of extreme competition (5 minutes on XBOX Live will show you that). The Wii, by and large, is marketed to families. For the ads that I've seen on TV, the family-centric ones far outnumber the gamer-oriented ones. There are dark, brooding titles for hardcore gamers, but they are few and far between.

I'm not trying to insult the Wii or Wii owners, but to me, it is very obvious that the console occupies a certain market niche: family friendly gaming console.

While that is quite true, that market 'niche' is potentially larger than the entire existing market.

The marketing is prioritised towards that group, but that doesn't mean it ignores the others.

How many people own 360's or PS3's in any given country. Now work that out as a percentage of the population.

'Hardcore' gamers are inherently a niche group, and if the market as a whole expands, the percentage of 'hardcore' gamers goes down.
Thus, advertising aimed at 'hardcore' gamers would remain less common even if the Wii was the only console in existence...

 

[m_jim]

While that is quite true, that market 'niche' is potentially larger than the entire existing market.

The marketing is prioritised towards that group, but that doesn't mean it ignores the others.

How many people own 360's or PS3's in any given country. Now work that out as a percentage of the population.

'Hardcore' gamers are inherently a niche group, and if the market as a whole expands, the percentage of 'hardcore' gamers goes down.
Thus, advertising aimed at 'hardcore' gamers would remain less common even if the Wii was the only console in existence...

Haha...that's funny. Yeah, you're right, the Wii's niche is substantial...much larger than that of the PS3 or X360. That being said, let's look at some numbers.
Top selling Wii games as of 2009 source [http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/02/02/nintendo-reveals-top-selling-wii-and-ds-games-wii-sports-becomes-best-selling-game-ever/]
Wii Sports - 40.5 million
Wii Play - 20.91 million
Wii Fit - 14.01 million
Mario Kart Wii - 13.67 million
Super Smash Bros. Brawl - 8.1 million
Super Mario Galaxy - 7.66 million
Mario Party 8 - 6.28 million
Animal Crossing: City Folk - 3.22 million
Wii Music - 2.50 million
Link's Crossbow Training - 2.44 million

*note* I didn't include the sales figures for these because I couldn't easily copy/paste it and I am lazy

Top selling PS3 Games as of 2009 source [http://www.softsailor.com/news/2709-top-10-best-selling-ps3-games-of-all-time.html]
Grand Theft Auto 4
Call of Duty 4
Metal Gear Solid 4
Resistance: Fall of Men
MotorStorm
Gran Turismo 5
Uncharted
Killzone 2
Heavenly Sword
Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction

Top selling Xbox 360 Games source [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#Xbox_360]
Halo 3
Gears of War
Gears of War 2
GTA 4
Call of Duty 4
Call of Duty: World at War
Forza 2
Fable 2
Saints Row 2
Assassin's Creed

Looking at these lists, there is a very clear difference in the games purchased for the Wii and for its competitors. While I can admit that Smash Brothers and Super Mario Galaxy can be considered hardcore, Red Steel, MadWorld, No More Heroes, Resident Evil 4, etc. are nowhere to be found. So, while adult oriented games are out there for the Wii, no one is buying them. People are focusing on E/T rated, family friendly games. The PS3/Xbox360 sales show the charts dominated almost entirely by M-rated, highly competitive, adult oriented games, i.e. "hardcore games."

Again, I don't think that it is a bad thing that Nintendo pushes certain games harder. It knows what its customers want and delivers it very well. To step outside of this, into the well established territory of Sony and Microsoft (whose products seem to cater to the hardcore gaming population), would not be the wisest move, in my opinion.

 

[The_Healer]

I doubt that the market that buys the Wii is worried about HD. To really take any advantage of HD graphics Nintendo would have to produce an entirely new console, one with more than the current processing power of a washing machine.

I have no understanding of the economics behind this but I doubt a Wii with a glorified HD output will affect the sales of either the 360 or the PS3.

 

[Deathsong17]

first off the wii HD is like saying the fat anorexic. it just doesn't work. and no one would buy it just because it looks good, thats wat went wrong with the gamecube and killed nintendo. second, i doubt the wii could ever beat the ps3 since the fact of the matter is the wii has maybe 3 games that are good that aren't just the same thing as the stuff on the NES. thirdly, by then there will be a ps4, an xbox 720, and i don't know if nintendo will continue to make systems after the wii

Apparently they have a large room filled with unrealesd console prototypes. So... yea...

 

[CrystalShadow]

While that is quite true, that market 'niche' is potentially larger than the entire existing market.

The marketing is prioritised towards that group, but that doesn't mean it ignores the others.

How many people own 360's or PS3's in any given country. Now work that out as a percentage of the population.

'Hardcore' gamers are inherently a niche group, and if the market as a whole expands, the percentage of 'hardcore' gamers goes down.
Thus, advertising aimed at 'hardcore' gamers would remain less common even if the Wii was the only console in existence...

Haha...that's funny. Yeah, you're right, the Wii's niche is substantial...much larger than that of the PS3 or X360. That being said, let's look at some numbers.
Top selling Wii games as of 2009 source [http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/02/02/nintendo-reveals-top-selling-wii-and-ds-games-wii-sports-becomes-best-selling-game-ever/]
Wii Sports - 40.5 million
Wii Play - 20.91 million
Wii Fit - 14.01 million
Mario Kart Wii - 13.67 million
Super Smash Bros. Brawl - 8.1 million
Super Mario Galaxy - 7.66 million
Mario Party 8 - 6.28 million
Animal Crossing: City Folk - 3.22 million
Wii Music - 2.50 million
Link's Crossbow Training - 2.44 million

*note* I didn't include the sales figures for these because I couldn't easily copy/paste it and I am lazy

Top selling PS3 Games as of 2009 source [http://www.softsailor.com/news/2709-top-10-best-selling-ps3-games-of-all-time.html]
Grand Theft Auto 4
Call of Duty 4
Metal Gear Solid 4
Resistance: Fall of Men
MotorStorm
Gran Turismo 5
Uncharted
Killzone 2
Heavenly Sword
Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction

Top selling Xbox 360 Games source [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#Xbox_360]
Halo 3
Gears of War
Gears of War 2
GTA 4
Call of Duty 4
Call of Duty: World at War
Forza 2
Fable 2
Saints Row 2
Assassin's Creed

Looking at these lists, there is a very clear difference in the games purchased for the Wii and for its competitors. While I can admit that Smash Brothers and Super Mario Galaxy can be considered hardcore, Red Steel, MadWorld, No More Heroes, Resident Evil 4, etc. are nowhere to be found. So, while adult oriented games are out there for the Wii, no one is buying them. People are focusing on E/T rated, family friendly games. The PS3/Xbox360 sales show the charts dominated almost entirely by M-rated, highly competitive, adult oriented games, i.e. "hardcore games."

Again, I don't think that it is a bad thing that Nintendo pushes certain games harder. It knows what its customers want and delivers it very well. To step outside of this, into the well established territory of Sony and Microsoft (whose products seem to cater to the hardcore gaming population), would not be the wisest move, in my opinion.

That's a good point. And it simply reinforces that a Wii HD would be rather pointless.
I'm a little disturbed by the 360 list, to be honest, (but that relates to another thread)

It seems going over the same ground repeatedly is universally popular.

 

[m_jim]

That's a good point. And it simply reinforces that a Wii HD would be rather pointless.
I'm a little disturbed by the 360 list, to be honest, (but that relates to another thread)

It seems going over the same ground repeatedly is universally popular.

Indeed. I was surprised by the 360 list too; I didn't expect it to be so dominated by first person shooters. I was hoping that something lighthearted like Viva Pinata would sneak in at number 10, because the list makes the 360 crowd look like a dour bunch. At least the PS3 had an entry from the wonderful Ratchet and Clank series. The Wii list really makes me miss the fun-loving days when hedgehogs, plumbers, and necktie-wearing gorillas dominated the charts. But that's probably a discussion for another thread...

 

[Alcookie]

really dont care about graphics, Wii HD sounds like another way for nintendo to appeal to the other fanbases, similar to how they publish violent video games i.e. manhunt, madworld etc.

The only way they could improve their fanbase is to make some new innovative games, rather than the mario zelda cycle.

 

[ntnimara]

I dunno.. depends if they can keep the price at a low

But sounds like a decent argument

It could certainly re-boost the Wii's momentum (which seems to have fallen significantly)

That renewed momentum would attract the big games to the HD enabled platform

eeeeh.. I would probably not buy it though, I'm happy with my Wii, considering I got a very limited budget, and I'm happy with Nintendo games

 

[la-le-lu-li-lo]

even if the wii was 'HD enabled' i still don't think it could keep up graphically or performance-wise with the PS3.

 

[Ashbax]

If i wanted a hd game system i play a 360 or ps3. I play the wii for games that only the wii can do . I don't play the wii for state of the art graphics. On side note has this guy ever been right?

No, he isnt often right, and I dont see why everyone suddenly sees him as some kinda videogaming god all of a sudden..since when could he predict what happens in the mind of a nerd when hes buying a console? And if microsoft has had second place all this time, what makes him thinkg sony will grab 2nd?

And when he first released that "vision" he had where sony would come second, I started laughing my head off.

Also, by 2015 we should be in the 8th generation of consoles, so Im not sure what hes high on.

 

[Ashbax]

first off the wii HD is like saying the fat anorexic. it just doesn't work. and no one would buy it just because it looks good, thats wat went wrong with the gamecube and killed nintendo. second, i doubt the wii could ever beat the ps3 since the fact of the matter is the wii has maybe 3 games that are good that aren't just the same thing as the stuff on the NES. thirdly, by then there will be a ps4, an xbox 720, and i don't know if nintendo will continue to make systems after the wii

Apparently they have a large room filled with unrealesd console prototypes. So... yea...

Ok, I already made the point that we will be in the 8th gen, but this guy two above me is saying nintendo might stop making consoles? Why the fuck? Remember, MS is beating Ps3 to SECOND place. guess whos in FIRST place? the wii. Although the escapist hates the wii, the rest of the world dont, apparently.

 

[Daedalus1942]

hahahah, no.... just no... -.-

 

[cyber druid]

Well.... Nintendo hasn't had solid 3rd party support since 1994, when the SNES was king. Even though there are 50 million Wiis sold, how many well-made, universally praised 3rd party titles are out on it?

Madworld
Resident Evil 4

Exscuse me?What about No More heroes,that sold excellent and was a brilliant game.In fact a sequal is due in 2010,'nuff said.

 

[cyber druid]

While that is quite true, that market 'niche' is potentially larger than the entire existing market.

The marketing is prioritised towards that group, but that doesn't mean it ignores the others.

How many people own 360's or PS3's in any given country. Now work that out as a percentage of the population.

'Hardcore' gamers are inherently a niche group, and if the market as a whole expands, the percentage of 'hardcore' gamers goes down.
Thus, advertising aimed at 'hardcore' gamers would remain less common even if the Wii was the only console in existence...

Haha...that's funny. Yeah, you're right, the Wii's niche is substantial...much larger than that of the PS3 or X360. That being said, let's look at some numbers.
Top selling Wii games as of 2009 source [http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/02/02/nintendo-reveals-top-selling-wii-and-ds-games-wii-sports-becomes-best-selling-game-ever/]
Wii Sports - 40.5 million
Wii Play - 20.91 million
Wii Fit - 14.01 million
Mario Kart Wii - 13.67 million
Super Smash Bros. Brawl - 8.1 million
Super Mario Galaxy - 7.66 million
Mario Party 8 - 6.28 million
Animal Crossing: City Folk - 3.22 million
Wii Music - 2.50 million
Link's Crossbow Training - 2.44 million

*note* I didn't include the sales figures for these because I couldn't easily copy/paste it and I am lazy

Top selling PS3 Games as of 2009 source [http://www.softsailor.com/news/2709-top-10-best-selling-ps3-games-of-all-time.html]
Grand Theft Auto 4
Call of Duty 4
Metal Gear Solid 4
Resistance: Fall of Men
MotorStorm
Gran Turismo 5
Uncharted
Killzone 2
Heavenly Sword
Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction

Top selling Xbox 360 Games source [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#Xbox_360]
Halo 3
Gears of War
Gears of War 2
GTA 4
Call of Duty 4
Call of Duty: World at War
Forza 2
Fable 2
Saints Row 2
Assassin's Creed

Looking at these lists, there is a very clear difference in the games purchased for the Wii and for its competitors. While I can admit that Smash Brothers and Super Mario Galaxy can be considered hardcore, Red Steel, MadWorld, No More Heroes, Resident Evil 4, etc. are nowhere to be found. So, while adult oriented games are out there for the Wii, no one is buying them. People are focusing on E/T rated, family friendly games. The PS3/Xbox360 sales show the charts dominated almost entirely by M-rated, highly competitive, adult oriented games, i.e. "hardcore games."

Again, I don't think that it is a bad thing that Nintendo pushes certain games harder. It knows what its customers want and delivers it very well. To step outside of this, into the well established territory of Sony and Microsoft (whose products seem to cater to the hardcore gaming population), would not be the wisest move, in my opinion.

That's a good point. And it simply reinforces that a Wii HD would be rather pointless.
I'm a little disturbed by the 360 list, to be honest, (but that relates to another thread)

It seems going over the same ground repeatedly is universally popular.

Just because some of the "hardcore" games arent up there in the top list dosent mean they are not good.The reason Wii sports is no.1 is because it comes with the wii,so that dosent really count.Wii play was terrible most people only bought it because it was optional for an extra 5 or something for a remote.Wii fit:Well,ok people are just idiots here.This was crap >.>.Ill admit that.Mario kart wii:Again sorry I dont understand how this sold so well on the wii and not the gamecube.SSBB:This was bought because its nintendo compiled version of most of the famous characters in nintendo,excluding Snake and Sonic.I'm not going to bother going through the rest as I will start rambling.Except the last one,REALLY surprised me.

But my point is,just because there not at the very top of the list,they are not at the bottom either.Example?My above post.