Will same sex marriage be overturned?

[Worgen]

The short answer is... maybe, the long answer is... maybe.

Ok, so to start gay marriage in the US was pretty much passed nation wide by the supreme court in a 5-4 decision, making it one of those supreme court decisions that is more likely to be overturned. Not helping matters is justice Clarence Thomas saying that the court was "...prioritizing LGBT rights over religious freedom...", when the court refused to hear the case of kim davis, who you may remember as the Kentucky clerk who refused to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples.

Clarence Thomas Criticizes Obergefell When Rejecting Kim Davis Case | Law & Crime

Kim Davis, the Kentucky clerk who famously refused to issue marriage licenses for same-sex couples, just lost her latest try to get a case in front of the Supreme Court to overturn marriage equality. But although the high court denied certiorari in Davis’s case, conservative Justice Clarence...

lawandcrime.com

Considering that we will soon have a super majority of conservatives on the supreme court, they could certainly overturn the supreme court case that gave the rights of same sex marriage. But, even though they could, will they?

That is where things get complicated, for one, it seems like once we had the right to same sex marriage the republicans pretty much just shutup about it, they were busy yelling about trans bathrooms and such, it really did seem like they stopped caring about the gays for the most part pretty quick, with the exception of a cake shop. But, the big issue is what would that do to the previously issued marriage licenses? Would states be able to just not recognize them from same sex states? How would that work tax wise? If a state decided it just didn't want to recognize any marriage licence from a republican state, could they retaliate by doing that? Its questions like these that make me think its actually unlikely to happen.

 

[SilentPony]

If Trump wins, yeah probably. If Biden wins, yeah probably after he looses re-election and Ivanka Trump wins.

 

[tstorm823]

No. The Supreme Court with a 5-3 conservative majority unanimously turned down even hearing that woman's case to not grant people marriage licenses. Mostly the same court just decided 6-3 to extend sex-based workplace protections to trans individuals. A large part of the argument by Thomas is it would be a different thing entirely if it was debated and passed through legislature. The only chance he would ever have at dragging a couple justices along with him would be if it was passed through the legislature and the court ruling was made irrelevant.

 

[Revnak]

Lol, no. They don’t give a fuck about that anymore, they’ve moved on to trans people.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Yeah, they've regrouped and re-aimed at trans people for the most part, so I'd expect not.

 

[Kae]

Well that's kind of the point of the system, that every law passed is reversible therefore there's always the possibility that it can be overturned, like many have said these bigoted assholes are currently busy with the trans community, but if they succeed on that front and manage to outlaw trans people, it's likely that they will change targets back to same sex marriage and so on, therefore we can't really afford to get distracted and we must not let them win this trans battle, and continue to fight for overall gay rights as that battle isn't over and under the current system that allocates most of the power to straight cis white rich men, who have it in their agenda to keep the people divided so that we continue fighting amongst ourselves, rather than you know unifying and fighting against them, which is what we should do, they'll continue to push those things.

So really, we shouldn't let our guards down just because there's another target, we must continue to defend gay rights while simultaneously fighting for trans rights and everyone else too, but I guess this is more of an LGBTQA thread so we should focus on that.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Well that's kind of the point of the system, that every law passed is reversible therefore there's always the possibility that it can be overturned, like many have said these bigoted assholes are currently busy with the trans community, but if they succeed on that front and manage to outlaw trans people, it's likely that they will change targets back to same sex marriage and so on, therefore we can't really afford to get distracted and we must not let them win this trans battle, and continue to fight for overall gay rights as that battle isn't over and under the current system that allocates most of the power to straight cis white rich men, who have it in their agenda to keep the people divided so that we continue fighting amongst ourselves, rather than you know unifying and fighting against them, which is what we should do, they'll continue to push those things.

So really, we shouldn't let our guards down just because there's another target, we must continue to defend gay rights while simultaneously fighting for trans rights and everyone else too, but I guess this is more of an LGBTQA thread so we should focus on that.

Well, I think part of it is the mechanism by which it came to be was through court rulings. So it's not just as simple as change laws, the worry is they'll overturn court rulings, outside of just trying to pass laws, which are much easier to oppose.

 

[Agema]

The short answer is... maybe, the long answer is... maybe.

Firstly, with respect to Kim Davis, as far as I'm concerned she had one job, and she just needed to go do it. If it's against her religious values, she needed to quit that job, not protest that she shouldn't have to do the job requirements: that's not religious freedom, it's religious entitlement.

In terms of the SCOTUS decision, it is what it is and I doubt they'll revisit it without, as Tstorm says, specific legislation. The conservative position is (by my reading) that justices uphold legislation unless contradicted by the constitution, even if it's shitty legislation. The objection is that interpretation of the constitution using the 14th is very vague and permits the court to impose rules that conservative justices think are the legislature's job to rule on. However, once the law is settled, the appetite to undo it even by conservative justices will diminish significantly. Without an explicit law to provoke reappraisal, I am extremely doubtful they would restart that fight.

And states aren't going to pick that fight for them either, at least in the short-medium term. Everyone's seen the way gay rights have been moving and the ever increasing acceptance of gay marriage. Whilst Republican state legislators may have been happy to leave this "man and woman" stuff on the books for their conservatives, I can hardly see them proactively trying to restore what would be obsolete even when it came into force. In a way, the court probably did them a favour, by getting rid of what was always going to be a untenable law in the long-term, without having to offend their own voters by doing it themselves.

 

[Kae]

Well, I think part of it is the mechanism by which it came to be was through court rulings. So it's not just as simple as change laws, the worry is they'll overturn court rulings, outside of just trying to pass laws, which are much easier to oppose.

True enough, but people tend to forget that the whole system is the true enemy and as such it shouldn't be trusted, especially not with the people currently in charge or worse if they continue to be in charge, that being said I'm a bit ignorant of how things work in the USA regarding these things, with México these kinds of laws are handled more on a state by state basis rather than in the Federal level, so while same sex marriage may technically be legal according to federal law unless the individual state has passed a law to legalise it, it will continue to be illegal, for example we currently have a "left" leaning government so as a result of that federal laws have legalised same sex marriage, only 13 out of 32 states have legalised, of those states that have outlawed it though due to some technicalities it's possible to get married in 6 other states though you do have to jump through a lot of legal hoops to do it and even then it's not guaranteed you'll manage to do it (though in certain municipalities it's easier than in others), that does mean it's still completely illegal on 13 states though, which really sucks but it's really hard to gather support on most states when the Catholic church still opposes it and it still has a lot of power over the Mexican populace, still unfortunately there's precedent for these laws to be overturned so even then we can't be sure it will be maintained if a more right wing government is elected next time around, which is entirely plausible since people aren't really happy with the current government particularly since it seems to be very against education and the arts, which isn't particularly good when students and artists tend to be the main proponents of left-wing ideas, and it's pushing a lot of people to the Mexican equivalent of the Alt-Right which is very weird, like seriously I'd never seen white supremacists in México until last year and it was absolutely baffling, like I was expecting the hardcore Authoritarians to rise (Part of the reason I hate the current President is because he's a hardcore authoritarian) but not the white supremacists considering that white people are kind off a minority here in México, most of us are "brown" or even darker skinned, well people tell me I'm yellow so I guess some of us are yellow too.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I don't really enough to say that it can or it can't be overturned there in the USA, just that I don't particularly trust the government and I most definitely wouldn't let my guard down if I were American.

 

[Shadyside]

Lol, no. They don’t give a fuck about that anymore, they’ve moved on to trans people.

This kinda. They mostly moved on to another boogeyman. I do wonder what other scapegoat they're going to use once trans people get their rights.

 

[Hawki]

True enough, but people tend to forget that the whole system is the true enemy and as such it shouldn't be trusted, especially not with the people currently in charge or worse if they continue to be in charge, that being said I'm a bit ignorant of how things work in the USA regarding these things, with México these kinds of laws are handled more on a state by state basis rather than in the Federal level, so while same sex marriage may technically be legal according to federal law unless the individual state has passed a law to legalise it, it will continue to be illegal, for example we currently have a "left" leaning government so as a result of that federal laws have legalised same sex marriage, only 13 out of 32 states have legalised, of those states that have outlawed it though due to some technicalities it's possible to get married in 6 other states though you do have to jump through a lot of legal hoops to do it and even then it's not guaranteed you'll manage to do it (though in certain municipalities it's easier than in others), that does mean it's still completely illegal on 13 states though, which really sucks but it's really hard to gather support on most states when the Catholic church still opposes it and it still has a lot of power over the Mexican populace, still unfortunately there's precedent for these laws to be overturned so even then we can't be sure it will be maintained if a more right wing government is elected next time around, which is entirely plausible since people aren't really happy with the current government particularly since it seems to be very against education and the arts, which isn't particularly good when students and artists tend to be the main proponents of left-wing ideas, and it's pushing a lot of people to the Mexican equivalent of the Alt-Right which is very weird, like seriously I'd never seen white supremacists in México until last year and it was absolutely baffling, like I was expecting the hardcore Authoritarians to rise (Part of the reason I hate the current President is because he's a hardcore authoritarian) but not the white supremacists considering that white people are kind off a minority here in México, most of us are "brown" or even darker skinned, well people tell me I'm yellow so I guess some of us are yellow too.

MmGA.

Make Mexico Great Again.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

True enough, but people tend to forget that the whole system is the true enemy and as such it shouldn't be trusted, especially not with the people currently in charge or worse if they continue to be in charge, that being said I'm a bit ignorant of how things work in the USA regarding these things, with México these kinds of laws are handled more on a state by state basis rather than in the Federal level, so while same sex marriage may technically be legal according to federal law unless the individual state has passed a law to legalise it, it will continue to be illegal, for example we currently have a "left" leaning government so as a result of that federal laws have legalised same sex marriage, only 13 out of 32 states have legalised, of those states that have outlawed it though due to some technicalities it's possible to get married in 6 other states though you do have to jump through a lot of legal hoops to do it and even then it's not guaranteed you'll manage to do it (though in certain municipalities it's easier than in others), that does mean it's still completely illegal on 13 states though, which really sucks but it's really hard to gather support on most states when the Catholic church still opposes it and it still has a lot of power over the Mexican populace, still unfortunately there's precedent for these laws to be overturned so even then we can't be sure it will be maintained if a more right wing government is elected next time around, which is entirely plausible since people aren't really happy with the current government particularly since it seems to be very against education and the arts, which isn't particularly good when students and artists tend to be the main proponents of left-wing ideas, and it's pushing a lot of people to the Mexican equivalent of the Alt-Right which is very weird, like seriously I'd never seen white supremacists in México until last year and it was absolutely baffling, like I was expecting the hardcore Authoritarians to rise (Part of the reason I hate the current President is because he's a hardcore authoritarian) but not the white supremacists considering that white people are kind off a minority here in México, most of us are "brown" or even darker skinned, well people tell me I'm yellow so I guess some of us are yellow too.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I don't really enough to say that it can or it can't be overturned there in the USA, just that I don't particularly trust the government and I most definitely wouldn't let my guard down if I were American.

But what does not trusting the system have anything to do with this? The thread is about them adding a Supreme Court justice that the OP is worried may be willing to side with more conservative justices to overturn a prior ruling. You don't need trust or distrust, it's about what we might expect to happen

And in the US the rulings of the US Supreme Court apply to all the states. Some states individual Supreme Courts have also made similar rulings prior, but I do not believe that is true of all states. So if the US Supreme Court overturned Obergefell v. Hodges then some states could pass laws against it quite feasibly.

 

[Kae]

MmGA.

Make Mexico Great Again.

It's much weirder than that, they want us to be Spain apparently, but not like actually Spain because they say that Spain right now is weak and Pathetic so something like Fancisco Franco's Spain is what they're looking for, I don't know, it's hard to take them seriously they're insane.

But what does not trusting the system have anything to do with this? The thread is about them adding a Supreme Court justice that the OP is worried may be willing to side with more conservative justices to overturn a prior ruling. You don't need trust or distrust, it's about what we might expect to happen

And in the US the rulings of the US Supreme Court apply to all the states. Some states individual Supreme Courts have also made similar rulings prior, but I do not believe that is true of all states. So if the US Supreme Court overturned Obergefell v. Hodges then some states could pass laws against it quite feasibly.

I see, I guess that makes sense, I didn't know that's how things work, half the time I just want to yell smash the system, so that's probably why I mentioned that.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

I see, I guess that makes sense, I didn't know that's how things work, half the time I just want to yell smash the system, so that's probably why I mentioned that.

Fair!

 

[Trunkage]

This kinda. They mostly moved on to another boogeyman. I do wonder what other scapegoat they're going to use once trans people get their rights.

They still have immigrants