Will the entertainment business become more Democratic?

gorfias

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Will the entertainment business become more Democratic? Has it already?

I argued with someone doing set design back in the 1990s that I thought it coming. With home computers, better and better video cameras (heck, they're in our phones now), you would see larger percentages of people entering the entertainment field and earning a living from it. He argued that the technology to challenge the established industry has existed a long time. People could record their own music since forever. Sure you had the incidental Debbie Gibson or Tiffany but they didn't really put a dent in the power of the establishment.

Now, not only are we seeing original IP on pay channels like HBO, but web channels. Heck, "Power" in a Sony original on Playstation.

I'm seeing youtube videos with incredible production values:


Back in the day, acting was a 95% unemployment field. Is it still? Anyone really making money posting their songs on Itunes and self publishing? Is the entertainment field more democratic than it was in the 1980s?
 

Thaluikhain

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Democratic, in that more random people can be involved? I suppose. But it's still going to be industry dominated.

Gaming is democratic, in that anyone can make games, in theory. In practice, we still get big business dominating things.
 

Zontar

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Gorfias said:
Back in the day, acting was a 95% unemployment field. Is it still? Anyone really making money posting their songs on Itunes and self publishing? Is the entertainment field more democratic than it was in the 1980s?
Entertainment is a very risky field with a downright massive turnover rate and a very low probability of success, which is why most actors and singers have a 'real job' and do the entertainment one on the side.

As for self publishing, that has accomplished a massive over-saturation of media which has been accompanied by just as massive of a reduction of overall quality.

I wouldn't call it a democracy, since that would imply a great deal of things it is not, but I would call it a much closer meritocracy then it used to be, as it allows for the works which people want to consume to successful.
 

gorfias

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Zontar said:
As for self publishing, that has accomplished a massive over-saturation of media which has been accompanied by just as massive of a reduction of overall quality.
There is a lot of mediocre stuff out there but I think there has been a lot of improved quality. TV has gotten terrific. If I don't go out to the movies, its because there's a lot of catch up for them to do out there. Movies like academy award winning "Mystic River" seem like an extended episode of "True Crime".
 

Zontar

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Gorfias said:
Zontar said:
As for self publishing, that has accomplished a massive over-saturation of media which has been accompanied by just as massive of a reduction of overall quality.
There is a lot of mediocre stuff out there but I think there has been a lot of improved quality. TV has gotten terrific. If I don't go out to the movies, its because there's a lot of catch up for them to do out there. Movies like academy award winning "Mystic River" seem like an extended episode of "True Crime".
That's just one medium though, one which doesn't have the "anyone can enter" problem due to the monetary cost of entry coupled with the need to find someone to broadcast whatever you're making. If anything, the quality of Television stems from the fact it has been immune to the changes you've mentioned due to its very nature, while webseries and movies can be made by anyone picking up a camera, a comic by anyone with a pen and a novel by anyone with a keyboard.
 

Albino Boo

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Gorfias said:
There is a lot of mediocre stuff out there but I think there has been a lot of improved quality. TV has gotten terrific. If I don't go out to the movies, its because there's a lot of catch up for them to do out there. Movies like academy award winning "Mystic River" seem like an extended episode of "True Crime".
The budget of these TV show are $3 million per episode. A twenty show season costs in the region of $60 million, in the same order as a AAA game.
 

gorfias

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Zontar said:
Gorfias said:
Zontar said:
As for self publishing, that has accomplished a massive over-saturation of media which has been accompanied by just as massive of a reduction of overall quality.
There is a lot of mediocre stuff out there but I think there has been a lot of improved quality. TV has gotten terrific. If I don't go out to the movies, its because there's a lot of catch up for them to do out there. Movies like academy award winning "Mystic River" seem like an extended episode of "True Crime".
That's just one medium though, one which doesn't have the "anyone can enter" problem due to the monetary cost of entry coupled with the need to find someone to broadcast whatever you're making. If anything, the quality of Television stems from the fact it has been immune to the changes you've mentioned due to its very nature, while webseries and movies can be made by anyone picking up a camera, a comic by anyone with a pen and a novel by anyone with a keyboard.
I was there at the birth of HBO. They had maybe 2 movies a day they showed repeatedly all day long, every other day for a week. Now they have their own IP.

It may not be "anyone can enter" but man, there are a heck of a lot of new options out there!

I'm about to start episode 9 of "Powers" on Sony's Playstation network. Good fun!

albino boo said:
Gorfias said:
There is a lot of mediocre stuff out there but I think there has been a lot of improved quality. TV has gotten terrific. If I don't go out to the movies, its because there's a lot of catch up for them to do out there. Movies like academy award winning "Mystic River" seem like an extended episode of "True Crime".
The budget of these TV show are $3 million per episode. A twenty show season costs in the region of $60 million, in the same order as a AAA game.
Weren't these sorts of matters existent 30 years ago, before Hulu or Amazon started having their own IP?

How is "Powers" being made, or "Orange is the New Black". Or things like that first post I made, which, in a few short minutes, is more fun than the entire "Man Of Steel" movie that cost about $300 Million. Personally, I'm glad there is a AAA game industry. And I'm glad James Cameron made the thematically anti-capitalist movie Titanic, which shows what can be done with $300 million. But I'm marveling at new stuff I'm seeing at www.vimeo.com and youtube and Netflix's original series (Daredevil was spectacular). Though, I still couldn't tell you what the employment rate is around professional actors now.

AveAtqueVale said:
Democratic in the way that the restaurant industry is. You have a CHANCE, even a chance at huge success, but most fade away.
I've read 85% fail inside of the first 3 years. Tough, tough business. And when successful, still tough as hell. My hat is off to anyone brave enough to try it.
 

Zontar

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Gorfias said:
I was there at the birth of HBO. They had maybe 2 movies a day they showed repeatedly all day long, every other day for a week. Now they have their own IP.

It may not be "anyone can enter" but man, there are a heck of a lot of new options out there!
HBO also came about in a time where there was much less competition coupled with there being a general environment for cable that doesn't exist anymore due to the medium solidifying itself coupled with the rise of the internet. Back then the barrier of entry was 'only' tens of millions of dollars, today it will cost an easy 9 figure price tag to get a cable channel set up and active enough to survive the market, and that's before we even start talking about original content. HBO was a unique case where it came about at the right place at the right time, which is why no one had managed to emulate it despite others (such as AMC) having tried.

I'm about to start episode 9 of "Powers" on Sony's Playstation network. Good fun!
I've never watched the show, but I have skimmed the comics, is it as dark? Because I doubt it will go to the "unstoppable genocidal maniac is on a rampage and has killed millions" rout.

I'm also amazed the comic was picked up for a series given Marvel seems to want every live action thing it makes to be in its MCU, and Powers is by no means part of that universe.

I've read 85% fail inside of the first 3 years. Tough, tough business. And when successful, still tough as hell. My hat is off to anyone brave enough to try it.
In television 65% of series either don't make it to the end of their first season or don't get renewed if they do make it. This isn't helped by around 80% of series being axed after 2 seasons.
 

gorfias

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Zontar said:
HBO was a unique case where it came about at the right place at the right time, which is why no one had managed to emulate it despite others (such as AMC) having tried.
I think AMC is Madmen, Walking Dead, Breaking Bad: they're pretty impressive to me.

I've never watched the show [Powers], but I have skimmed the comics, is it as dark? Because I doubt it will go to the "unstoppable genocidal maniac is on a rampage and has killed millions" rout.
It's pretty dark. Very mature feeling in tone. I'm excited about the next episode as it continues to pick up steam. Some of the "effects" are laugh out loud bad in this day and age but they service the over-all story well enough.

In television 65% of series either don't make it to the end of their first season or don't get renewed if they do make it. This isn't helped by around 80% of series being axed after 2 seasons.
Sounds true. Unreal how, if a station does have a successful show, they hang on to it with a Death Grip. The Original Star Trek lasted only 3 seasons. "How I Met Your Mother" made 9! With a splintered potential audience, those real TV successes are rare and being hotly protected.
 

Zontar

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Gorfias said:
I think AMC is Madmen, Walking Dead, Breaking Bad: they're pretty impressive to me.
I'm not saying AMC is unimpressive, but they also aren't HBO, and they've tried to be an equal to them and have failed despite having the knowledge of the industry few others have coupled with the resources and the will even fewer do. I don't think there'll be another HBO until HBO goes under or the European market manages to make something that comes across the pond that is equally as big.

It's pretty dark. Very mature feeling in tone. I'm excited about the next episode as it continues to pick up steam. Some of the "effects" are laugh out loud bad in this day and age but they service the over-all story well enough.
Hum, might just give it a look them.

Sounds true. Unreal how, if a station does have a successful show, they hang on to it with a Death Grip. The Original Star Trek lasted only 3 seasons. "How I Met Your Mother" made 9! With a splintered potential audience, those real TV successes are rare and being hotly protected.
I'd like to point out that Star Trek getting 3 seasons was unprecedented, as back in those days (the 60s) science fiction series set in space pretty much never got more then a single season. Getting a second season was a genuine surprise to people, a third even more so. How I Met Your Mother, on the other hand, was a sitcom which managed to hit it, and those tend to run long as they are relatively cheap to make due to the reuse of sets, and are typically brought to an end when either the actors leave or become demand too much money for the show to go on.
 

gorfias

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Zontar said:
Gorfias said:
I think AMC is Madmen, Walking Dead, Breaking Bad: they're pretty impressive to me.
I'm not saying AMC is unimpressive, but they also aren't HBO, and they've tried to be an equal to them and have failed despite having the knowledge of the industry few others have coupled with the resources and the will even fewer do. I don't think there'll be another HBO until HBO goes under or the European market manages to make something that comes across the pond that is equally as big.
Is HBO HBO anymore? If I want to watch a movie, I watch Netflix. There's next to nothing on HBO. HBO has some terrific IP, particularly Game of Thrones.

I wonder how they're doing dollar for dollar vs. AMC.

Hum, might just give it [Playstation Original "Powers"] a look then.
I think you need a PS+ subscription. Do you? Then, definitely worth a look.

I'd like to point out that Star Trek getting 3 seasons was unprecedented, as back in those days (the 60s) science fiction series set in space pretty much never got more then a single season. Getting a second season was a genuine surprise to people, a third even more so. How I Met Your Mother, on the other hand, was a sitcom which managed to hit it, and those tend to run long as they are relatively cheap to make due to the reuse of sets, and are typically brought to an end when either the actors leave or become demand too much money for the show to go on.
I think it was "Bonanza" they used to make a fuss about. Very unusual back in the day for ANY show to get more than a couple of seasons (Bonanza 14!). Now, a mediocrity (How I met your Mother was very mediocre IMHO) with an audience hangs around for a decade! Seen a re-run of Friends lately? It's like, "holy moly: we as a nation used to adore this?!?!?". And Simpsons? Started before I got married. My daughter goes to college next Fall! EDIT: "Gunsmoke" even more seasons. 20ish. Guess it (shows with many seasons) did happen. Seems to happen a lot now.
 

Thaluikhain

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Zontar said:
I'd like to point out that Star Trek getting 3 seasons was unprecedented, as back in those days (the 60s) science fiction series set in space pretty much never got more then a single season. Getting a second season was a genuine surprise to people, a third even more so.
To add to this, apparently everyone told Lucille Ball not to commission another series of Star Trek, that her company (Desilu) was in trouble already, and another season of Star Trek would kill it. But she was determined to prove them wrong (IIRC, she was the one that fought to get it going in the first place), so they went and made another season, though with much less budget.

And it wasn't very good and Desilu got bought out by Paramount.
 

Vault101

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Gorfias said:
the "earning a living" part has arguably been undone by the very systems that allowed that level of accessibility, not to mention (just from my un-knowledgeable observation) the the "gatekeepers" double down and go with safe products like comicbook movies, sequels to well known franchises and A FUCKING MINIONS MOVIE SERIOUSLY I-

*ahem*

its sort of like...if youre an author its harder to get in bed with the big five but its also easyer to self publish...does that make it fairer? *shrug* I don't know it does certainly make it different

my first thought was comicbooks,Image has essentially kept "mainstream" comics from being nothing but superheros, thats still "within" the inner circle though people have access to all the tools to create comics at a professional level, so the playing feild feels a *little* more even

thing is you'll always be competing with an overwhelming sea of content, even if things were democratic its just a sheer numbers game

its climbing a glass mountain or trying to catch up to an ocean liner in a paddle boat

so there's less gatekeepers but also less money