With Spoilers, Discuss the Avengers

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

the only disappointment was that Ed Norton wasnt in it...

there was actually a big to-do about that. He basically said he was embarrassed to be in a kids movie, and didn't want to do another.

To be honest I think they had a much better Bruce Banner.

This guy seemed a bit more... Passionate? I don't know how to describe it. Ed was so damn calm all the time, I found it hard to buy that anger management would be a big problem for him.

 

[Aurgelmir]

I was gutted when Coulson died.

And the avengers reminded me about how much I thought Spiderman was missing from the team... Poor spidey. Where was he when Loki's army was invading!?

Two reasons:

Reason 1: Marvel Studios don't own the movie rights to Spider-man.
Reason 2: This is the biggest reason of them all; Spider-man is historically not an Avenger, and didn't join the avengers until New Avengers in 2005.

I NEVER want to see spiderman, OR wolverine in an Avengers movie/ Not fond of Spiderman, and Wolverine is everywhere in the comics, and i am sick of him.

Agreed. And as stated it will probably never happen

 

[WolfThomas]

1.) Why is Thor back? I mean Loki even asks how he managed to get back with the bridge between Earth and Asgard gone. But we're never told.

Loki makes a comment about Odin expending Dark Matter energy to send Thor there. It's a bit of a cop-out, but assumedly Odin was able to do that all along but only did so because it was a one way trip and he didn't have reason until Loki and Tesseract surfaced.

3.) Where the fuck is War Machine. Even if they didn't want him in it they should have written him out. The world is at stake here, surely someone would call up that other superhero.

War Machine or James Rhodes is still a member of the US airforce. Who knows what he could have been doing while NYC was invaded. He could be in the middle east or performing exercises in the pacific. The battle didn't seem to go that long. Probably only a few hours (enough time for the local National guard to turn up). He might have turned up on the scene later with other elements of the US defense force.

5.) Why did they spend so long assembling the Avengers. I thought the point of having five movies set this one up, each with a scene that includes the characters being recruited would mean we'd get to the war about half an hour to 45 minutes in. It was well written and all but it just pissed me off that five movies build up to the Avengers and The Avengers opens and the Avengers initiative has been scrapped.

Come it's classic Superhero storytelling that everyone fights when they meet first and only team up for the end. It's how they work.

 

[ThePenguinKnight]

You could tell scenes were missing which I'm sure will be included on DVD/Blu-Ray.

These missing scenes seem to be
1: Banner gaining control over the Hulk after his fit of rage nearly killing Black Widow.
2: The teams trust and tolerance for one-another dwindling due to Loki's influence.

My only real complaint is how weak Loki appeared to be. He's a master strategist, manipulator, sorcerer, is a half asgardian half frost giant god of deceit that rules over hoards of mythological creatures but you never really get to see that here. It doesn't inspire confidence in how they'll handle Thanos, someone significantly stronger.

 

[Fappy]

You could tell scenes were missing which I'm sure will be included on DVD/Blu-Ray.

These missing scenes seem to be
1: Banner gaining control over the Hulk after his fit of rage nearly killing Black Widow.
2: The teams trust and tolerance for one-another dwindling due to Loki's influence.

My only real complaint is how weak Loki appeared to be. He's a master strategist, manipulator, sorcerer, is a half asgardian half frost giant god of deceit that rules over hoards of mythological creatures but you never really get to see that here. It doesn't inspire confidence in how they'll handle Thanos, someone significantly stronger.

I think they did right by Loki. You have to remember his criminal career is in its infancy and he's still learning his limitations. Loki's always been strong, but traditional Avengers tales dictate that once his sabotage/trickery has been overcome he is swiftly taken down.

 

[Swyftstar]

Lots of good stuff. That last fight was basically a comic book battle on screen. Hulk and Tony were hilarious. My favorite scene stems purely from my comic book geekdom. They stand in the street and Cap lays out the plan, telling everybody what to do. That's basically what Cap was to the Avengers. The best field commander in comics and seeing it done justice made me happy. Also, him telling Hulk to Smash and Hulk just smiling in answer and going beserk on some Chitauri ass was an awesome way to end it.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The dialogue was fantastic, the story was a bit slow and the action scenes were pretty damn good but nothing too impressive or revolutionary. Don't really see why this is being rated as more than a 7/10. Seems pretty typical summer blockbuster stuff to me (with some fantastic Joss Whedon moments and dialogue). It was a really really fun movie, and probably one of the most mindlessly enjoyable blockbusters I've seen, but that's really all it was, a damn good popcorn flick.

This seems like a good summation to me. Hugely entertaining, not revolutionary in any way. In many ways a perfect summer movie, but it shouldn't be winning any Oscars.

Nolan's Batman films are still a cut above.

 

[BabySinclair]

The Hulk:
And as cool as the Hulk was, I think they managed his story line pretty poorly. They made this big deal about him being this unstoppable, uncontrolable animal, yet at the end of the movie he was taking orders and working within the team. That simply didnt fit the story they had provided. He just rocked up on a motorbike and was a different character who just happened to look the same.
They could have made it more believeable if during the scene in the airship, when he was chasing the Black Widow and had just knocked her down, if he was about to smash her or something, they could have shown something along the lines of Banner attempting to take control. They could have then shown that he did exert some form of control over the Hulk, and laid the ground work for him being in control during the final battle. Because the Hulk in the final battle was a different Hulk that we were shown during the earlier movie. They were two different characters. They just looked the same. See what i'm getting at?

The Hulk's an animal of instinct with some reasoning. Bruce rarely intentionally changes into the Hulk and when he does he can control or at least direct him. This is shown in the 3rd act of The Hulk when he jumps out of the helicopter to fight Abomination. On the carrier he lost his control which led to the Hulk just wanting to get away. When he want at the Leviathan he directed his anger and it made him strong. (sorry, had to get in the Star Wars reference.) He managed to regain control after the fight and go back to Banner since the Hulk was pretty worn out unlike in the Hulk when he ran off with some energy left.

What I think a lot of people forget is that The Avengers is not a stand alone film and a lot of character development has already been established. The Avengers itself and SHIELD are what really undergoes a character development arc.

 

[Ranorak]

On a more serious note. You did actually make some really good points. I too was confused by how Banner simply talking to a random guy who let him borrow some clothes allowed him to control the Hulk.

There is an argument flying around that the first time Banner Transformed, with Widow, he transformed unwillingly, he was fighting it. But the stress and danger forced it out.
But the second time, he transformed willingly, he let the beast out himself.

This could change the way Hulk behaves.
Just a theory.

 

[RedDeadFred]

On a more serious note. You did actually make some really good points. I too was confused by how Banner simply talking to a random guy who let him borrow some clothes allowed him to control the Hulk.

There is an argument flying around that the first time Banner Transformed, with Widow, he transformed unwillingly, he was fighting it. But the stress and danger forced it out.
But the second time, he transformed willingly, he let the beast out himself.

This could change the way Hulk behaves.
Just a theory.

So this would mean that he was always able to willingly transform and have control but he can still be forced to transform and not have control during stressful situations.

Makes sense. He never really hinted at this before but it's as good an explanation as any I think.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

This seems like a good summation to me. Hugely entertaining, not revolutionary in any way. In many ways a perfect summer movie, but it shouldn't be winning any Oscars.

Is that how a massively diverse medium is to be deconstructed? If a work wins a bleedin' Oscar?

I'm a film fan, a Marvel fan, a Whedonite and I'm not sure I've seen a more readily enjoyable and satisfying summer film. Should it win an Oscar? F*** the Oscars.

In a way I think it may just be the most successful superhero flick of all time because, for a change, the entire created universe of the film felt superheroic. Spidey 2 was a cracking film, and in some ways it's a far more satisfying work than The Avengers, because we got all the emotionality and the with-power-comes-yaddayadda stuff.

But Avengers? Unlike the single hero films preceded it, this felt bigger, bolder, brighter, more confident. It felt like the comicbook world which the characters sprang from, whereas the other films tended to feel like one hero versus the [real] world. For me, that's kinda missing the point of the original source material, and only now are we seeing a truly Marvelesque world come to life.

Most directors shamefully approach the comic universe with 'Hmm.. how are we going to sell this to the audience? How can we make this believable'? Joss and co seemed to say: pft, sod that - we have a big green guy, a Norse god, a man in a blue suit with a shield, a smartass in cool armor, a kickass spy, and man-with-bow. Let's film that.

Nolan's Batman films are still a cut above.

Wrong - Nolan's films were out to make different statements and do different things. I adore Dark Knight and can't wait for Rises, but Whedon and Nolan were gunning for different results. And both absolutely nailed their visions.

Diversity FTW.
(...not the band/street dance troupe, btw)

I love slow pretentious worthy cinema, but The Avengers packed me off into a time machine and sent me back to a certain Saturday in the late '80's, lying under a table watching Star Wars. I felt a palpable sense of wondrous glee watching The Avengers, which reminded me why I fell in wuv with cinema in the first place. And that? That makes Joss Whedon [and everyone who helped him] mighty...

 

[Goofguy]

I agree, this movie is a fantastic superhero flick. In my opinion, it is one of the best, if not the best, Marvel movie. My only complaint with the movie was the length of some parts. The whole flying around on the ship and the subsequent attack on it kind of dragged on for me.

 

[ImSkeletor]

Ironman, Thor & The Hulk are the only characters they needed for the movie. I felt like the other characters were just useless compared to these three.

I got to disagree due to Ironman's entire character arc relying on Captain America who also had some of the best scenes in the movie imo. Hawkeye and Blackwidow could have been removed though.

 

[WolfThomas]

5. Yeah but "cos every other superhero movie does it" is a point against it imo. Especially if it negates chunks of the other movies. They ignored the plot just to make it more formulaic?

No, no, no, no...no that's not what I meant. It's not a Superhero movie trend (can't be there are so few ensemble pieces) it's a Superhero trend in the comics. Two heroes meet the first that happens is they have to fight. Either by a misunderstanding or ego clash. It happens. Then they team and beat the badguys. It's every single Spiderman or Wolverine crossover. It's just what happens. Because it's fun to see these guys fight each other. To start/settle arguments over who is stronger Hulk or Thor.

If Fury had just blown a whistle and all these guys had lined up and jumped into action it would have been less fun.