Wonder Woman and Jusitce League official movie trailer

mecegirl

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Jarrito3001 said:
Honestly I am looking forward to both more than I thought it would. I glad DC just said skip the built up just throw all in there and make it happen.

Justice League: Loving Batfleck so much right now and tone seems to be on point. Seems like its going to be gasp fun. It started on a good note in that it did not show me the entire movie. My hype for BvS was killed when the trailers were just showing all of the cool stuff and reveals. Hopefully they can stay on track don't even show the villain its Justice League it can survive on those laurels.

Wonder Woman: Have to get this out the way. The trailer was great. Established the Wonder Woman continuity and the setting looks great and color contract was on point. Nothing against Godot but man could she get on that Tom Hardy, Christian Bale regimine of gaining some more mass. I know they probably could not find a actress with a more MMA look but Godot is on the scrawny Linda Carter side. Nothing against Ms Carter but I am on team want my Wonder Woman on the more beefy side. Not going to stop me from checking it out but will see what happens.
I doubt for the rest of her career she'd want to deal with getting bulkier. But they could let some muscle definition show. It's possible that even if she worked out at all and became more defined that they toned it down later with the computer. They do the same thing to female stunt doubles so that it isn't 100 obvious that a different body is doing the stunts. Its really a shame, but she is female so they may be more concerned with keeping her "soft" looking.

Zhukov said:
mecegirl said:
Zhukov said:
Wonder Woman: Ummm... what the fuck? That looked good. What witchcraft is this? What strange world have I stumbled into? There was colour. The action looked really cool. The gender stuff was lighthearted and fun rather than ham-fisted. Somehow having Godot striding around WWI blocking mortar shells with a shield looks totally baller instead of ridiculous.
The thing is if you get that impression that means that they are doing Wonder Woman right. She and Superman aren't like Batman. There has to be light and hope for them to work. For a very long time the prevailing wisdom has been that Wonder Woman would be too hard to translate into film.
Oh, I'm not surprised at being impressed at a Wonder Woman trailer. I'm surprised at being impressed at a DC movie trailer.

(Although I think Suicide Squad is also looking vaguely promising.)
Oh certainly. It will be interesting to see if they can pull off a good DC movie other than Batman.
 

axlryder

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Poorly thought out point here, but Wonder Woman looks real boring. From my perspective, they spent way too much of the trailer being like "See, men? There's a MAN in this, and he's IMPORTANT. Look! He's on a BEACH with a BEAUTIFUL WOMAN HOVERING OVER HIM whose acting like Chi from Chobits! Doesn't that ignorance get your protective instincts going and make you feel INVESTED and TITILLATED!? WE SWEAR THERE IS A CHARACTER FOR YOU TO RELATE TO HERE! OH GOD, PLEASE WATCH OUR MOVIE!"

I get it from a marketing perspective, and it's probably even necessary, but I kind of just want WW to be interesting on her own. At least they did a little bit to reinforce her sense of agency and individuality throughout the trailer, but that just felt forced in there to compensate for beach scene.

Note that this is coming from someone who hasn't seen BVS or read too many WW comics.

Also cyborg looks like complete shit. Like, woah. That is one of the most mishandled character designs I think I've ever seen. He shouldn't have even BEEN in that trailer. Not only did they just barely manage to squeeze him in, but they didn't even DO anything fun or exciting with him. I guess with all the negative feedback they'll at least know to change his appearance...somehow.

I'm actually really digging aquaman. If it wasn't Jason Momoa I'd probably think it was weird, but he feels extremely appropriate for the role.
 

Myria

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mecegirl said:
I doubt for the rest of her career she'd want to deal with getting bulkier. But they could let some muscle definition show. It's possible that even if she worked out at all and became more defined that they toned it down later with the computer. They do the same thing to female stunt doubles so that it isn't 100 obvious that a different body is doing the stunts. Its really a shame, but she is female so they may be more concerned with keeping her "soft" looking.
I find this really odd, and have ever since Gadot was cast in the role. Granted, I have a somewhat unique perspective -- I'm a competitive bodybuilder and professional trainer -- but in a time when you have guys like Hugh Jackman and Henry Cavil getting jacked to hell and back in order to fit the superhero part, having a someone play one of the strongest and best known female superheros whilst looking like someone I could literally snap in half without even trying just seems... Pathetic.

Would spending some serious time with heavy metal hurt her career in the long term? Really? I dunno, maybe. I do know that the weird idea so many have (and, sadly, it's something I have to deal with near daily) that if a woman even touches a barbell she instantly turns into some manly looking she-hulk is a load of mindess rot. Many of the women I compete against and many of my clients are extremely attractive women -- it is a sport based on aesthetics, after all, looks count for a lot, like it or not -- and if you met them in their day-to-day clothes you wouldn't generally have a clue they were lifters. Put them in a skin-tight bustier and micro-mini whilst holding a sword & board and they'd look a hell of a lot more the part than Gadot does.

IMHO, anyway.

I dunno, after the joyless slog that was BvS, at least to me, I have very little hope for DC properties going forward. Maybe WW will be good, I wasn't particularly impressed by the reveal footage but who knows? Regardless, I'll always have a hard time taking Gadot seriously. She's just physically all wrong for a part that is, or should be, very physical.
 

mecegirl

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Myria said:
mecegirl said:
I doubt for the rest of her career she'd want to deal with getting bulkier. But they could let some muscle definition show. It's possible that even if she worked out at all and became more defined that they toned it down later with the computer. They do the same thing to female stunt doubles so that it isn't 100 obvious that a different body is doing the stunts. Its really a shame, but she is female so they may be more concerned with keeping her "soft" looking.
I find this really odd, and have ever since Gadot was cast in the role. Granted, I have a somewhat unique perspective -- I'm a competitive bodybuilder and professional trainer -- but in a time when you have guys like Hugh Jackman and Henry Cavil getting jacked to hell and back in order to fit the superhero part, having a someone play one of the strongest and best known female superheros whilst looking like someone I could literally snap in half without even trying just seems... Pathetic.

Would spending some serious time with heavy metal hurt her career in the long term? Really? I dunno, maybe. I do know that the weird idea so many have (and, sadly, it's something I have to deal with near daily) that if a woman even touches a barbell she instantly turns into some manly looking she-hulk is a load of mindess rot. Many of the women I compete against and many of my clients are extremely attractive women -- it is a sport based on aesthetics, after all, looks count for a lot, like it or not -- and if you met them in their day-to-day clothes you wouldn't generally have a clue they were lifters. Put them in a skin-tight bustier and micro-mini whilst holding a sword & board and they'd look a hell of a lot more the part than Gadot does.

IMHO, anyway.

I dunno, after the joyless slog that was BvS, at least to me, I have very little hope for DC properties going forward. Maybe WW will be good, I wasn't particularly impressed by the reveal footage but who knows? Regardless, I'll always have a hard time taking Gadot seriously. She's just physically all wrong for a part that is, or should be, very physical.
I agree with you. It's one of the reasons why I'm not as excited for this as I could be it just doesn't look "right" to me. But Hollywood has their standards. It's really a shame because even if she didn't get bulkier but only pulled a Linda Halmilton from Terminator 2 that would be a improvement in my eyes.
Ms Hamilton isn't a large woman by any means but she had the body to make it look like her character hit the gym hard in order to prepare for the shit that was about to go down. Some people are just naturally slim anyway. So I think the look could work for a character who was supposed to be a warrior trained since she was a child who happens to be slender. It actually makes more sense for Wonder Woman to be ripped than Superman because of the training she's done.
 

Nazulu

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Both trailers are shit, so I'll wait for more I guess. And what is with more of the fucking blue and orange lights!? I'm so sick of seeing it! Probably going to pass as usual.
 

Cicada 5

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Myria said:
mecegirl said:
I doubt for the rest of her career she'd want to deal with getting bulkier. But they could let some muscle definition show. It's possible that even if she worked out at all and became more defined that they toned it down later with the computer. They do the same thing to female stunt doubles so that it isn't 100 obvious that a different body is doing the stunts. Its really a shame, but she is female so they may be more concerned with keeping her "soft" looking.
I find this really odd, and have ever since Gadot was cast in the role. Granted, I have a somewhat unique perspective -- I'm a competitive bodybuilder and professional trainer -- but in a time when you have guys like Hugh Jackman and Henry Cavil getting jacked to hell and back in order to fit the superhero part, having a someone play one of the strongest and best known female superheros whilst looking like someone I could literally snap in half without even trying just seems... Pathetic.

Would spending some serious time with heavy metal hurt her career in the long term? Really? I dunno, maybe. I do know that the weird idea so many have (and, sadly, it's something I have to deal with near daily) that if a woman even touches a barbell she instantly turns into some manly looking she-hulk is a load of mindess rot. Many of the women I compete against and many of my clients are extremely attractive women -- it is a sport based on aesthetics, after all, looks count for a lot, like it or not -- and if you met them in their day-to-day clothes you wouldn't generally have a clue they were lifters. Put them in a skin-tight bustier and micro-mini whilst holding a sword & board and they'd look a hell of a lot more the part than Gadot does.

IMHO, anyway.

I dunno, after the joyless slog that was BvS, at least to me, I have very little hope for DC properties going forward. Maybe WW will be good, I wasn't particularly impressed by the reveal footage but who knows? Regardless, I'll always have a hard time taking Gadot seriously. She's just physically all wrong for a part that is, or should be, very physical.
Wonder Woman has rarely ever been depicted as particularly muscular. In her original comics, people would comment on her small size only to be shocked at how strong she was. Her abilities have nothing to do with her physique and frankly, Gadot doesn't look that skinny in the trailer.
 

BloatedGuppy

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So, I'm going to be a voice of dissent here.

The new, lighter, jocular tone doesn't wear well on these films. I get that DC had been laboring post Christopher Nolan trying to maintain a "gritty, dark" atmosphere and failing badly while Marvel rode whimsy and excitement to massive box office returns, but "tone" was never really the problem. Snyder was the problem. Bad scripts, too, but Snyder bears primary culpability for a couple of pretty hard to watch movies. Man of Steel borderline incomprehensible? That's Snyder. Eisenberg masticating the scenery and blowing every take? That's on Snyder too. That's what directors are FOR. They provide direction.

So they have a new lighter tone now, but Snyder is still firmly in place. Light hearted garbage is still garbage. What's worse is the jocularity feels incredibly forced, incredibly "me too", incredibly "look at how fun we are now, we listened to feedback!". "Grim" might have gone over like a lead balloon in the Snyder features but at least it gave the DC universe a distinct identity. Was the solution to move even more squarely into Marvel's wheelhouse? There was a niche there for a serious minded, furrowed-brow, grounded superhero universe to stand opposite Marvel's more eccentric and fantastical one. Shit, that's what Batman is MADE for, and Batman is still their cash cow. But nope. They wanna tackle the MCU, without the MCU's half decade and change of hit films, loved stars and audience good will. I wish them the very best of luck at it.

Oh, and the trailer was kind of rubbish, too. Wonder Woman looks ok. So ridiculously stylized I was momentarily fearful they had Snyder doing that one, too, but thankfully no.
 

Dragonlayer

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Zhukov said:
Dragonlayer said:
... and I hope it turns out good, but for that it should be about Wonder Woman's first exposure to humanity in a time of industrialized self-slaughter, not her flying to Berlin to give Wilhelm II a thump.
I'm hoping for something like this too.

In BvS she says something along the lines of "A hundred years ago I walked away from mankind and a century of horrors." I don't know how consistent DC are going to be about this, but that's clearly a reference to the 20th century and if there was ever a war to make someone decide that mankind wasn't worth saving then WWI would be it, at least as it exists in popular memory.

Personally I actually really like the idea of a superhero who once saw too much shit and just went, "Nope, nope, FUCKING NOPE", and then of course gets dragged back into The Good Fight a century later. It could give her character a distinctive perspective and outlook in the team-up movies.

That said, as much as I love the idea, having the hero go, "To hell with you boys and your toys, go kill each other, I'm going back to my island", would be a very unconventional way to end a superhero movie.
I'm not particularly fussed about the shared continuity of all these multi-hero films as of late, but it would be pretty cool for the "inevitable jaded one who doesn't like humans much but will help anyway" to be a shell-shocked Wonder Woman, disgusted at the petty brutality of humanity after fighting in the First World War. It would also make an interesting contrast to Captain America - I have no idea who owns which characters so please don't beat me up comic book nerds - who only ever seemed slightly bummed out that he missed Star Wars, and apparently never witnessed any horrors of the Second World War beyond losing a friend who turned out alive after all.

Not to suggest that everyone who fights in a war *must* come back a broken shell of a person, mind you, but for someone who presumably would have seen the most intense fighting in the Allied theatres *and* all manner of fucked-up Nazi super-schemes, Steve Rogers seems cool with everything.
 

Dragonlayer

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Dec 5, 2013
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Gordon_4 said:
Dragonlayer said:
Hmmm, I'm torn in regards to Wonder Woman.

On the one hand, I do enjoy the mash-up of superheroes and historical conflicts when it's portrayed in a dark and gritty manner, not just an excuse to show Captain Gee Whizz! beating up legions of cackling but hapless enemy (read: German more often then not) soldiers. I know that sounds like I'm contradicting myself when I say this trailer leaves me with a mostly positive impression, considering its about a super-powered warrior princess in a mini-skirt going over the top, but No Man's Land looks blasted and desolate, the Reichsheer looks capable of fighting and the combat scenes actually look pretty cool. Honestly, it reminded me of the awesome trench-fighting segments from Suckerpunch, just without all the annoyingly gratuitous panty-shots getting in the way of the field-grey.

On the other hand, I am a complete non-fan of the source material, so the character herself and her supporting cast do not grab my interest at all. And I'm not certainly not interested in watching a superhero effortlessly slaughtering their way through history's most designated villains, especially if it transpires that the Kaiser is being ordered around by an evil character from the comics, or the Germans are unleashing some doomsday device because Germans are just jerks like that, and its up to the Amazons to save Entente democracy, freedom and cute little war-bond puppies. I'll be keeping an eye on this film and I hope it turns out good, but for that it should be about Wonder Woman's first exposure to humanity in a time of industrialized self-slaughter, not her flying to Berlin to give Wilhelm II a thump.

Also: why is James T. Kirk wearing the Pour le Merite?
Yeah I loved that trailer from about frame 1, but I cannot find any cartharsis in her fighting WWI-era German soldiers. There were no cackling Nazis to beat the shit out of at the Somme or in the Argonne, just a lot of young men doing what their country asked of them. Same as the Tommys, same as the ANZACS, and same as the Doughboys.

It is simultaneously the most interesting part of the movie, but also the most prone fuck up.
I'd be surprised if they didn't take a moment to point out some terrified British conscripts way over their head as an example of young men doing their bit for their nation, even if the nation's demands look insane to Wonder Woman, but I wouldn't be surprised if they then completely failed to extend this realism to the German side of things, and have WW save innocent, doe-eyed Belgian civilians from rampaging Teutonic monsters.
 

Chimpzy_v1legacy

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They're both ok as far as trailers go, but then, those rarely ever excite me anymore, jaded bastard that I am. But you wanna know what I think is the best thing about both of them?

Neither of them seem to show of the main villain.

It's somewhat of a pet peeve of mine when trailers spoil a movie's resolution by doing that.
Whoops, Doomsday is gonna be in Batman v Superman, Superman will be dying then.
 

circularlogic88

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Anybody else get a Quicksilver from recent X-Men movies vibe when they saw the Flash/Bruce scene in Justice League trailer? Are all speedsters in movies from now on just meant to be jokey and aloof and have decked out personal spaces?

Wonder Woman looked alright. One of the few DCCU movies I'm actually looking forward to seeing. Was kinda hoping to see her deflect bullets with her bracers though.
 

happyninja42

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mecegirl said:
Myria said:
mecegirl said:
I doubt for the rest of her career she'd want to deal with getting bulkier. But they could let some muscle definition show. It's possible that even if she worked out at all and became more defined that they toned it down later with the computer. They do the same thing to female stunt doubles so that it isn't 100 obvious that a different body is doing the stunts. Its really a shame, but she is female so they may be more concerned with keeping her "soft" looking.
I find this really odd, and have ever since Gadot was cast in the role. Granted, I have a somewhat unique perspective -- I'm a competitive bodybuilder and professional trainer -- but in a time when you have guys like Hugh Jackman and Henry Cavil getting jacked to hell and back in order to fit the superhero part, having a someone play one of the strongest and best known female superheros whilst looking like someone I could literally snap in half without even trying just seems... Pathetic.

Would spending some serious time with heavy metal hurt her career in the long term? Really? I dunno, maybe. I do know that the weird idea so many have (and, sadly, it's something I have to deal with near daily) that if a woman even touches a barbell she instantly turns into some manly looking she-hulk is a load of mindess rot. Many of the women I compete against and many of my clients are extremely attractive women -- it is a sport based on aesthetics, after all, looks count for a lot, like it or not -- and if you met them in their day-to-day clothes you wouldn't generally have a clue they were lifters. Put them in a skin-tight bustier and micro-mini whilst holding a sword & board and they'd look a hell of a lot more the part than Gadot does.

IMHO, anyway.

I dunno, after the joyless slog that was BvS, at least to me, I have very little hope for DC properties going forward. Maybe WW will be good, I wasn't particularly impressed by the reveal footage but who knows? Regardless, I'll always have a hard time taking Gadot seriously. She's just physically all wrong for a part that is, or should be, very physical.
I agree with you. It's one of the reasons why I'm not as excited for this as I could be it just doesn't look "right" to me. But Hollywood has their standards. It's really a shame because even if she didn't get bulkier but only pulled a Linda Halmilton from Terminator 2 that would be a improvement in my eyes.
Ms Hamilton isn't a large woman by any means but she had the body to make it look like her character hit the gym hard in order to prepare for the shit that was about to go down. Some people are just naturally slim anyway. So I think the look could work for a character who was supposed to be a warrior trained since she was a child who happens to be slender. It actually makes more sense for Wonder Woman to be ripped than Superman because of the training she's done.
I've never understood the need to have a character have physical muscles to justify them doing the feats of strength they do. NONE of the superheroes with super strength, can pull off what they do just because they've got guns. You could be as ripped as Arnold at the peak of his physical ability, and you still can't lift up a semi truck and hurl it 30 yards. So NONE of the heroes actually are as "realistically" muscled as they should be, to pull off what they do. They are all tapping into powers beyond the mere physicality of their body. So who cares if they look like a Mr. Universe weight lifter, or Steve Urkle? It's all completely fictional and unrealistic.

Maybe, MAAAYBE heroes like the Hulk could pull off some of the things they do, given they are inhumanely proportioned, and are like 10 feet tall, and have muscles thicker than most human torsos. But even then, I would doubt some of the stuff they pull off.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Happyninja42 said:
mecegirl said:
Myria said:
mecegirl said:
I doubt for the rest of her career she'd want to deal with getting bulkier. But they could let some muscle definition show. It's possible that even if she worked out at all and became more defined that they toned it down later with the computer. They do the same thing to female stunt doubles so that it isn't 100 obvious that a different body is doing the stunts. Its really a shame, but she is female so they may be more concerned with keeping her "soft" looking.
I find this really odd, and have ever since Gadot was cast in the role. Granted, I have a somewhat unique perspective -- I'm a competitive bodybuilder and professional trainer -- but in a time when you have guys like Hugh Jackman and Henry Cavil getting jacked to hell and back in order to fit the superhero part, having a someone play one of the strongest and best known female superheros whilst looking like someone I could literally snap in half without even trying just seems... Pathetic.

Would spending some serious time with heavy metal hurt her career in the long term? Really? I dunno, maybe. I do know that the weird idea so many have (and, sadly, it's something I have to deal with near daily) that if a woman even touches a barbell she instantly turns into some manly looking she-hulk is a load of mindess rot. Many of the women I compete against and many of my clients are extremely attractive women -- it is a sport based on aesthetics, after all, looks count for a lot, like it or not -- and if you met them in their day-to-day clothes you wouldn't generally have a clue they were lifters. Put them in a skin-tight bustier and micro-mini whilst holding a sword & board and they'd look a hell of a lot more the part than Gadot does.

IMHO, anyway.

I dunno, after the joyless slog that was BvS, at least to me, I have very little hope for DC properties going forward. Maybe WW will be good, I wasn't particularly impressed by the reveal footage but who knows? Regardless, I'll always have a hard time taking Gadot seriously. She's just physically all wrong for a part that is, or should be, very physical.
I agree with you. It's one of the reasons why I'm not as excited for this as I could be it just doesn't look "right" to me. But Hollywood has their standards. It's really a shame because even if she didn't get bulkier but only pulled a Linda Halmilton from Terminator 2 that would be a improvement in my eyes.
Ms Hamilton isn't a large woman by any means but she had the body to make it look like her character hit the gym hard in order to prepare for the shit that was about to go down. Some people are just naturally slim anyway. So I think the look could work for a character who was supposed to be a warrior trained since she was a child who happens to be slender. It actually makes more sense for Wonder Woman to be ripped than Superman because of the training she's done.
I've never understood the need to have a character have physical muscles to justify them doing the feats of strength they do. NONE of the superheroes with super strength, can pull off what they do just because they've got guns. You could be as ripped as Arnold at the peak of his physical ability, and you still can't lift up a semi truck and hurl it 30 yards. So NONE of the heroes actually are as "realistically" muscled as they should be, to pull off what they do. They are all tapping into powers beyond the mere physicality of their body. So who cares if they look like a Mr. Universe weight lifter, or Steve Urkle? It's all completely fictional and unrealistic.

Maybe, MAAAYBE heroes like the Hulk could pull off some of the things they do, given they are inhumanely proportioned, and are like 10 feet tall, and have muscles thicker than most human torsos. But even then, I would doubt some of the stuff they pull off.
Well for what it's worth, my view on the matter is that Wonder Woman, like her Marvel contemporary Thor, has spent her life training with people equally as strong as her so it would stand to reason that her strength while supernatural in origin was developed in the Greek ideal of training it rather than it just 'being so' like with Superman. Of course this depends on the canon the writer uses for the Amazons and the artist.

Personally I'm a fan of how Croatian artist stjepan sejic draws her most of the time in his fan-art

 

happyninja42

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Gordon_4 said:
Well for what it's worth, my view on the matter is that Wonder Woman, like her Marvel contemporary Thor, has spent her life training with people equally as strong as her so it would stand to reason that her strength while supernatural in origin was developed in the Greek ideal of training it rather than it just 'being so' like with Superman. Of course this depends on the canon the writer uses for the Amazons and the artist.

Personally I'm a fan of how Croatian artist stjepan sejic draws her most of the time in his fan-art
If you ask my personal preference of body type, yes I am WAY more a fan of the "fit" look for any woman really, compared to the "model" look. But I don't get upset if the hero doesn't match that body type, under the rationale that "they are just too thin to be doing those athletic feats." logic, which makes zero sense on the superheroic scale of "things we lift and throw around." There is no human body type, that still resembles an actual human body type that could be attained in the real world, that can do the feats of strength that they pull off in fiction. It's just physiologically impossible. So I don't care that the movie Wonder Woman is thinner than most comic representations of her. It's all fantastical anyway. What I want is an actress who can sell me the humanity of Wonder Woman. I don't care if she doesn't match the look. For all I know, the actress said she didn't want to bulk up for the role, and I have zero problems with that, just like I have zero problems with an actress refusing to lose weight for a role either. It's her body, she has final say over how far she is willing to change it for her work. If she wants to keep her thinner frame, fine by me. Can she act her way out of a paper bag? Yes? Good, she gets the role. I'm willing to overlook small detail changes to account for reality, and the people trying to bring this fiction to the screen. What I'm not willing to overlook, is sacrificing quality of work, simply for the sake of being closer to the original material, but then having that new imagining of the material suck ass.

Look at the Last Airbender movie. They went to a lot of trouble to find a kid who was already really damn good at martial arts....and he couldn't act for shit. I would rather they found a kid who was good at acting, and they gave him some martial arts training on set to help sell the performance. Watching a talented mannequin spout out lines doesn't appeal to me.

So give me an actress who can actually ACT as Wonder Woman, and I'll forgive pretty much anything else about her look, origin, etc.
 

Myria

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Happyninja42 said:
But I don't get upset if the hero doesn't match that body type, [...]
Perhaps so, but I strongly suspect that if they had cast a heavyset and not particularly attractive woman, rather than a hyper-thin model, she'd find far fewer defenders, regardless of acting skill, despite the same logic applying.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Agent_Z said:
Wonder Woman has rarely ever been depicted as particularly muscular. In her original comics, people would comment on her small size only to be shocked at how strong she was. Her abilities have nothing to do with her physique and frankly, Gadot doesn't look that skinny in the trailer.
She has more of an athlete's body than anything as Diana isn't about brute force, she's about grace and efficiency. If anything she fights like Batman in Supe's body. Plus it's funny how everyone is conveniently omitting that Gadot is Israeli. Meaning she served with the IAF as is obligatory in Israel. Plus at this point it's hilarious how the best criticism for her people can make is "but she's not bulky!" which is a pretty shallow observation. Whining about casting has proven to have a lousy track record anyway. BvS had problems but casting was not one of them and it's looking like DC's films are fine in that department.

Anyway, the stuff out of Comic Con is looking good. Wonder Woman is doing a great job of emphasizing the grit of WWI juxtaposed with a literal Amazon walking among men, Suicide Squad is going for the black comedy approach by showing what happens when a bunch of supervillains are forced to do good, and Justice League did a fine job introducing the team, even if Aquaman only said one word and Cyborg got little screen time. However, the best of the bunch is still Lego Batman.
 

mecegirl

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Happyninja42 said:
I've never understood the need to have a character have physical muscles to justify them doing the feats of strength they do. NONE of the superheroes with super strength, can pull off what they do just because they've got guns. You could be as ripped as Arnold at the peak of his physical ability, and you still can't lift up a semi truck and hurl it 30 yards. So NONE of the heroes actually are as "realistically" muscled as they should be, to pull off what they do. They are all tapping into powers beyond the mere physicality of their body. So who cares if they look like a Mr. Universe weight lifter, or Steve Urkle? It's all completely fictional and unrealistic.

Maybe, MAAAYBE heroes like the Hulk could pull off some of the things they do, given they are inhumanely proportioned, and are like 10 feet tall, and have muscles thicker than most human torsos. But even then, I would doubt some of the stuff they pull off.
In the case of Wonder Woman though she's been training since childhood. That's just a part of Amazonian culture. So its not a simple matter of her having muscles because she has super strength. It would be a reflection of her training. She'd have muscles for the same reason that Batman has muscles.(In some versions the Amazons don't have super strength and Wonder Woman only gains super powered abilities once putting on her costume because it's been blessed by the gods.) And it makes more since for her to have muscles than Superman. But an actor playing Superman or Batman wouldn't be considered without having a certain amount of bulk. So why is it so weird for it to be a consideration for the actor for Wonder Woman?
 

happyninja42

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May 13, 2010
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Myria said:
Happyninja42 said:
But I don't get upset if the hero doesn't match that body type, [...]
Perhaps so, but I strongly suspect that if they had cast a heavyset and not particularly attractive woman, rather than a hyper-thin model, she'd find far fewer defenders, regardless of acting skill, despite the same logic applying.
Possibly, but I don't agree with that mindset. I'm willing to allow for the restrictions of reality, when it comes to an actual human being, who is trying to audition for a role for a fictional, stylized, ideal personification of a specific ideal. Again, I prefer to have a good actor. With the technology we have today, we can easily shore up any discrepancies for minor things, like their lack of actual martial skill (just use a CGI version of them like they do with all the high action stuff in comic book movies), and just let the actor focus on the acting. To demand that they be equal parts good actor, physically perfect, match the source material perfectly, I think is just unrealistic in most cases. You have to make allowances for reality. So I don't mind if they get someone who "according to fans" doesn't look accurate to the character, a character that couldn't pull off what she does physically anyway, no matter how much training she's done. She's a fictional, mythological being, with powers beyond human capability, period. To nit pick that her arms aren't buff enough to throw a tank, just seems silly to me.

mecegirl said:
Happyninja42 said:
I've never understood the need to have a character have physical muscles to justify them doing the feats of strength they do. NONE of the superheroes with super strength, can pull off what they do just because they've got guns. You could be as ripped as Arnold at the peak of his physical ability, and you still can't lift up a semi truck and hurl it 30 yards. So NONE of the heroes actually are as "realistically" muscled as they should be, to pull off what they do. They are all tapping into powers beyond the mere physicality of their body. So who cares if they look like a Mr. Universe weight lifter, or Steve Urkle? It's all completely fictional and unrealistic.

Maybe, MAAAYBE heroes like the Hulk could pull off some of the things they do, given they are inhumanely proportioned, and are like 10 feet tall, and have muscles thicker than most human torsos. But even then, I would doubt some of the stuff they pull off.
In the case of Wonder Woman though she's been training since childhood. That's just a part of Amazonian culture. So its not a simple matter of her having muscles because she has super strength. It would be a reflection of her training. She'd have muscles for the same reason that Batman has muscles.(In some versions the Amazons don't have super strength and Wonder Woman only gains super powered abilities once putting on her costume because it's been blessed by the gods.) And it makes more since for her to have muscles than Superman. But an actor playing Superman or Batman wouldn't be considered without having a certain amount of bulk. So why is it so weird for it to be a consideration for the actor for Wonder Woman?
Because I think it's equally unrealistic for the actors playing Batman or Superman. Because again, I don't care how much training they do, the fact that they can pull off the feats of strength they are famous for, has zero to do with their actual muscles. It's all superpowers. I personally wouldn't care if they got a Clark Kent who actually looks like a regular dude, if he can act the part well. To say "ok man, all of the depictions of Superman have him in the Rob Leifeld level of insane, steroid filled muscle mass, so you have to sell that look. So go train for 9 months and gain 50 pounds of pure muscle or else you don't get the part." Yeah that's a shitty work ethic in my opinion. Actors and actresses shouldn't be forced to gain, or lose weight for a role. If the viewing public is so fucking nitpicky, that they will throw a hissy fit because the actor doesn't exactly fit their ideal (an ideal that can vary from artist to artist in the comics) of the character, then it's the fault of the fan, not the actor.

If the actor CHOOSES to do that, for example Gal Gadot decided she wanted to bulk up a bit for the role, then fine, that's her choice, and I'm certainly fine with it. I would also have been fine with Henry Cavil, or Ben Afleck saying "nope, I'm not going to do that drastic of a body change, as the long term effects of it are harmful if I don't maintain it", I would be fine with that too. But to demand it of them, and if they don't, the fan base brings out their torches and pitch forks? Yeah, fuck those people.