Would a movie about a comic book villain appeal to you? Also do you think it would work?

The Salty Vulcan

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Yopaz said:
The Salty Vulcan said:
The villain protagonist is a very tough character to pull off in my honest opinion. Make him too villainous and he could potentially become too repugnant for the audience. Make him too redeemable and he potentially becomes a hero. It's a very tough balancing act to pull.
This is more or less what I was thinking too. Make a movie about a villain and you'll have problems making the audience root for him and if they won't root for him they won't like the movie. Then there's the cliché that he changes his ways in the end which I am a little tired of. If they have a scheme to take over the world then manage to do it that will be an unpopular ending. If they get beaten in the end that will often seem anti climatic.

It could work, but it's very difficult to make it so.

It's easier to pull off an anti-hero.
Which what characters like Megamind and Gru essentially were. There was nothing wrong with either one either. They're both great, likeable characters that you want to follow. The thing is they're not really villainous. This is, of course, due to the tones of their respective films than any real fault of the character or their development.
 

skywolfblue

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I do love converted villains like Megamind or Gru. If the villain stays pure evil it's hard for me to root for them.
 

Geoffrey Francis

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The Salty Vulcan said:
The villain protagonist is a very tough character to pull off in my honest opinion. Make him too villainous and he could potentially become too repugnant for the audience. Make him too redeemable and he potentially becomes a hero. It's a very tough balancing act to pull.

It can work though; one of the best examples I've seen on screen was Walter White on Breaking Bad. Of course, Breaking Bad was a five-season-long television series, and thus had more time to build its characters and used it well.
Has there been a movie where the audience found the protagonist, repugnant? Obviously some people will find some characters repugnant, like in Wolf of Wall Street (Not that I've watched it yet), while others don't.
 

Squilookle

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I wrote a radio play about this sort of thing- and then Megamind and Despicable Me happened. Oh well, it was still a fun screenplay. Yes, I would enjoy a movie like that. If people liked Scarface, I'm sure they could get behind a supervillain story.
 

tzimize

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thaluikhain said:
Maybe an anti-hero like Catwoman work work better. Only, it'd have to be not crap.
Yeah....the thing is, these characters are usually at their most interesting in comics when played against the protagonist. Batman in the white, Catwoman in the gray and Joker in the pitch black.

Catwoman is interesting because she makes BATMAN more interesting as a character.

And a movie just about the joker? I dont know. Much as he is probably my favorite villain in the world...he really doesnt have a point without Batman. And he knows it. Random carnage is only fun when someone is trying to stop it.

A superhero movie seen from the eyes of the antagonist? Might be VERY interesting, but you'd have to have an antagonist with a cause you could empathize with. Not many comic book villains have that. Mr. Freeze might be one. Or you could make it a psychological movie about the villain struggling with his inner demons...

There are a lot of cool possibilities, and I'd DEFINATELY see it...but I wouldnt really expect much.

Squilookle said:
I wrote a radio play about this sort of thing- and then Megamind and Despicable Me happened. Oh well, it was still a fun screenplay. Yes, I would enjoy a movie like that. If people liked Scarface, I'm sure they could get behind a supervillain story.
While I get where you're coming from, neither of those are really villains. They're just grumpy. Real villains are evil. They do not grow to be a hero in the end, thats about their entire point. The amount of horror I would feel if I saw a redeemed Joker would be...unfathomable.
 

The Salty Vulcan

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Geoffrey Francis said:
The Salty Vulcan said:
The villain protagonist is a very tough character to pull off in my honest opinion. Make him too villainous and he could potentially become too repugnant for the audience. Make him too redeemable and he potentially becomes a hero. It's a very tough balancing act to pull.

It can work though; one of the best examples I've seen on screen was Walter White on Breaking Bad. Of course, Breaking Bad was a five-season-long television series, and thus had more time to build its characters and used it well.
Has there been a movie where the audience found the protagonist, repugnant? Obviously some people will find some characters repugnant, like in Wolf of Wall Street (Not that I've watched it yet), while others don't.
But of course! Take Conrad Brean from Wag the Dog. For those who haven't had the pleasure, the premise for the movie is this; The President of the United States has become involved in a sex scandal involving a teenaged girl.

To keep the media from having a field day and to keep the American public from remembering, the US Government hire Conrad Brean, a spin doctor. His solution? Fake a war with Albania! He cajoles, lies and deceives everyone not in on the plan. Crushes the dreams of the actors hired for the publicity shots, has a convicted rapist released from an asylum and even has those who helped him murdered.

Is he particularly supportive of the President or the current administration? No.
Is he himself repulsed by what the President has done? No.
Does he have any qualms with the actions he has taken? No.

He did it solely because a) he was getting paid and b) the challenge of it.

The man has no redeeming qualities. Robert De Niro's acting and the film's own screenplay aside, theres no reason to like him.
 

Geoffrey Francis

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The Salty Vulcan said:
But of course! Take Conrad Brean from Wag the Dog. For those who haven't had the pleasure, the premise for the movie is this; The President of the United States has become involved in a sex scandal involving a teenaged girl.
I also haven't seen Wag the Dog, though 85% on Rotten Tomatoes, makes the film seem alright. So having a repugnant protagonist, doesn't seem (by itself, obviously talent/actors/editors can change anything)to automaticly make a film bad. If anything it might make a film more interesting as it plays against preconceptions. So is there a really bad film that is like that because of a repugnant protagonist? Or do those just not get made.
 

The Salty Vulcan

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Geoffrey Francis said:
The Salty Vulcan said:
But of course! Take Conrad Brean from Wag the Dog. For those who haven't had the pleasure, the premise for the movie is this; The President of the United States has become involved in a sex scandal involving a teenaged girl.
I also haven't seen Wag the Dog, though 85% on Rotten Tomatoes, makes the film seem alright. So having a repugnant protagonist, doesn't seem (by itself, obviously talent/actors/editors can change anything)to automaticly make a film bad. If anything it might make a film more interesting as it plays against preconceptions. So is there a really bad film that is like that because of a repugnant protagonist? Or do those just not get made.
The only one that instantly comes to mind is Johnny from The Room. Tommy Wiseau's attempts at acting and a terrible script aside, theres nothing redeemable about him. Nothing to like about him at all. The, very little, we can glean from his character is that a) He thinks violence against women is funny and b) he has almost no sense boundaries. The only other films coming to mind are shlock horror movies like Pumpkinhead 2 or something.

Theres absolutely no reason as to why a film with a repugnant protagonist can't work. To use another example; one of my favourite films of all time is Blade Runner. Now, I've always thought that the true hero of the film was always Roy, but Roy isn't are protagonist is he? That's Deckard. Lets use his scenes with Rachael to examine him.

Upon first inviting her into his apartment, he straight up tells her that everything she's ever known to be true is a lie. That she's a replicant and that all her memories, all those precious moments close to her heart, weren't her own and are instead someone else's. He does so without any consideration to her feelings and we she does look like she's about to cry, he halfheartedly tries to play it off as a joke. His sex scene with her was practically an attempted rape at the start. Hell, compared to Roy, who had a very human reason to do what he did and genuinely cared for his friends and lover, Deckard is a robot.
 

The Enquirer

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My friend and I are actually working on a comic series and the way we are working it is so that way the villain isn't a bad guy. He's morally gray if you will. His methods are bad, but what he wants to accomplish is for the greater good. I think if you were to make a movie of a "villain" you just can't have them going around doing terrible things. You would need some legitimate reason for why they act that way.
 

EHKOS

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While I can't say for sure that it would work, having really never seen one before, I think Mr. Freeze or Riddler might be interesting. NPH would make a good Riddler. Although there might be an animated movie that focuses on Fries and his rather sad life...can't remember.
 

DRTJR

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Deathstroke, or Lobo. Lobo would be a hilarious romp through outragous action. and Deathstoke has been able to support his own book from time to time.
 

Squilookle

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tzimize said:
Squilookle said:
I wrote a radio play about this sort of thing- and then Megamind and Despicable Me happened. Oh well, it was still a fun screenplay. Yes, I would enjoy a movie like that. If people liked Scarface, I'm sure they could get behind a supervillain story.
While I get where you're coming from, neither of those are really villains. They're just grumpy. Real villains are evil. They do not grow to be a hero in the end, thats about their entire point. The amount of horror I would feel if I saw a redeemed Joker would be...unfathomable.
Actually, all someone in a work of fiction needs to do to be a villain is be actively malevolent, or work against the protagonist. Both of them do count as villains. If you need to see someone commit murder, rape or torture in order to be seen as a villain, then there's a lot of great villains that do not meet that criteria you're missing out on. Not growing to be a hero has never been a clear cut rule for a villain, because where they end up has nothing to do with what they are labelled as beforehand. Same thing goes for regular criminals.
 

KazeAizen

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I would love to see a Volcana movie. Yeah I know she's a Superman villain from the TV show exclusively. I don't care I like Volcana. Hell if DC wanted some major attention they'd make a Superman movie where he fights not just Volcana but Livewire. Think about it. The two notable females in Superman's rogues gallery in a live action movie together. It'd be the first time that a female was the lead villain. Generate much publicity much? Plus with the effects on Electro from Amazing Spider-man 2 and updated Human Torch effects for Volcana it could be amazing.
 

Nosforontu

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Their is always Doctor Horrible as an example of a fairly low budget proof in concept of the idea and while it began with a fairly comedic ineffectual villain. I would say buy the end of its run he has left the comedy behind and is ready to be a fairly cold villain.
 

tzimize

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Squilookle said:
tzimize said:
Squilookle said:
I wrote a radio play about this sort of thing- and then Megamind and Despicable Me happened. Oh well, it was still a fun screenplay. Yes, I would enjoy a movie like that. If people liked Scarface, I'm sure they could get behind a supervillain story.
While I get where you're coming from, neither of those are really villains. They're just grumpy. Real villains are evil. They do not grow to be a hero in the end, thats about their entire point. The amount of horror I would feel if I saw a redeemed Joker would be...unfathomable.
Actually, all someone in a work of fiction needs to do to be a villain is be actively malevolent, or work against the protagonist. Both of them do count as villains. If you need to see someone commit murder, rape or torture in order to be seen as a villain, then there's a lot of great villains that do not meet that criteria you're missing out on. Not growing to be a hero has never been a clear cut rule for a villain, because where they end up has nothing to do with what they are labelled as beforehand. Same thing goes for regular criminals.
Well, sure. If you wanna be pedantic about it. But I'm pretty confident you can see a very clear cut between for example Joker as a villain, and Megamind as a villain. And that movies with them in the front seat would be radically different.

I dont really agree with your definition either. A villain is by definition an evil force. An antagonist doesnt have to be evil. A villain can be a protagonist or antagonist (who the story is about or who works against the main character), but a Villain...is evil. Megamind is not evil. Joker is.
 

Squilookle

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tzimize said:
Squilookle said:
tzimize said:
Squilookle said:
I wrote a radio play about this sort of thing- and then Megamind and Despicable Me happened. Oh well, it was still a fun screenplay. Yes, I would enjoy a movie like that. If people liked Scarface, I'm sure they could get behind a supervillain story.
While I get where you're coming from, neither of those are really villains. They're just grumpy. Real villains are evil. They do not grow to be a hero in the end, thats about their entire point. The amount of horror I would feel if I saw a redeemed Joker would be...unfathomable.
Actually, all someone in a work of fiction needs to do to be a villain is be actively malevolent, or work against the protagonist. Both of them do count as villains. If you need to see someone commit murder, rape or torture in order to be seen as a villain, then there's a lot of great villains that do not meet that criteria you're missing out on. Not growing to be a hero has never been a clear cut rule for a villain, because where they end up has nothing to do with what they are labelled as beforehand. Same thing goes for regular criminals.
Well, sure. If you wanna be pedantic about it. But I'm pretty confident you can see a very clear cut between for example Joker as a villain, and Megamind as a villain. And that movies with them in the front seat would be radically different.

I dont really agree with your definition either. A villain is by definition an evil force. An antagonist doesnt have to be evil. A villain can be a protagonist or antagonist (who the story is about or who works against the main character), but a Villain...is evil. Megamind is not evil. Joker is.
Pretty sure you're the one bringing the pedantry into it- I see 'villain' as an overarching umbrella term. You're trying to make exceptions. Sure the Joker and Megamind couldn't be more different. Austin Powers and Jason Bourne couldn't be more different either... they still get branded under a common title.
 

Not Matt

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yes, that sounds awesome. I've wanted that for years, imagine seeing the dark knight from the perspective of the joker.
 

NightmareWarden

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I think a movie about a joint-effort supervillain breakout from jail would be an interesting premise. Multiple supervillains working together with conflicting personalities, risk of backstabbing, and it is a good potential work for either Marvel, DC, or an original work. Who has given up on their schemes and is trying to repent, who is the mole trying to prevent the breakout, and who is just plain crazy. Character interaction would be a very important part of this film given the fact that the characters would not be able to use their powers to a significant extent for most of the movie. That said, I suppose the idea would be more elegantly executed in a TV show rather than a movie. The plot certainly seems like a good opportunity for loads of drama-packed back-stabbings and betrayals.
 

The Salty Vulcan

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NightmareWarden said:
I think a movie about a joint-effort supervillain breakout from jail would be an interesting premise. Multiple supervillains working together with conflicting personalities, risk of backstabbing, and it is a good potential work for either Marvel, DC, or an original work. Who has given up on their schemes and is trying to repent, who is the mole trying to prevent the breakout, and who is just plain crazy. Character interaction would be a very important part of this film given the fact that the characters would not be able to use their powers to a significant extent for most of the movie. That said, I suppose the idea would be more elegantly executed in a TV show rather than a movie. The plot certainly seems like a good opportunity for loads of drama-packed back-stabbings and betrayals.

:|

You sir are a genius. I would love to write this some day. Hell! It would make for a flipping sweet web series! No seriously, my brain is already in overdrive coming up with characters and plots.