Would you kill the Joker?

[Canadamus Prime]

Well ok yeah, the impact is different. However you're still lowering yourself to his level, aren't you?

So? What's more important, maintaining your position on your higher level or preventing all the suffering he'll go on to cause?

And that's even if you were actually going to his level, which would be the level of murdering people because it's fun. You'd be lowering yourself to the level of someone who kills someone to protect the people they would inevitably go on to hurt and kill; it's much higher up on the morality ladder.

Maybe it is, but I cannot kill someone in cold blood while they lie defenceless on the floor, even if it is the Joker. Now if he was up and awake an we were in some sort of life or death struggle then maybe I'd kill him.

Oh, well then I guess it would be cold blooded murder, if you count the Joker as someone who is ever incapable of defending himself.

Since the OP said he was unconscious on the floor, yeah he can't defend himself.

 

[RJ 17]

Normal unknown people can't stand up to villians or heroes in the comic book world, so the hypothetical is impossible I'm afraid XD

That's...kinda what the point of a hypothetical question is...asking something that's extremely unlikely or outright impossible. "What would you do if you had a million dollars?" "What would you do with the gift of flight?" "If you could have anyone in the world as your boyfriend/girlfriend, who would it be?"

All hypothetical questions specifically because of how unlikely/impossible the situation in question is.

The question was, if we were in the comic book world, would we shoot the joker? Well in that world, it wouldn't happen because that world needs the joker to exist. You could try, but Harley suddenly bonks you with a cartoonish mallet and the Joker chuckles before he plays chicken with you strapped to the hood of his car.

If we had powers or were important in that world, then maybe, but unimportant people always lose there.[/quote]Except...that the hypothetical question posed in the OP specifically states that there's absolutely no one there to stop you and no way for the Joker to get out of it. It's you, a fully functional gun in your hand, and an unconscious Joker, all alone....do you pull the trigger?

You still seem to have trouble understanding the concept of just what a hypothetical question is. Yes, it most specifically is impossible to end up in such a situation in which you're all alone with Joker and he is completely at your mercy with his life literally in your hands, that's why it's a hypothetical question, it could never REALLY happen. Just as it's a hypothetical question to ask "If you could teleport anywhere in the world right now, where would you go?" Such a situation is absolutely impossible, what matters is the answer you give assuming such a situation WAS possible.

 

[Something Amyss]

I'm not sure I could kill someone who was helpless. I'm not sure I could kill someone period, but I have less trouble imagining it with a gun to my head.

I don't think I would. Because to me, the Joker has always represented the failure of Gotham, not the failure of Batman. He's clearly insane, and clearly dangerous, but he's just a guy. He doesn't shoot lasers from his biceps or fart the Power Cosmic, he's a skinny dude in facepaint.

So, in a way to me, he's a test. If Gotham can deal with the Joker, then they deserve the safety that comes from it. If they can't, then it's pretty clear that he's just emblematic of a larger problem that Gotham can't deal with and needs to.

This is interesting, because I wonder if someone would rise up in Joker's place if he were killed. I mean, if we were to treat this as an organic scenario, and not just assuming the writers would fill in the blank.

Always wrong unless it's a hero, and you have a press conference teasing it, and it makes loads o' monaaay!

Or a superhero heel turn.

Even minor villains aren't killed by normal heroes normally.

That still stems more from the notion of recurring characters than anything else. "Batman doesn't kill" could be swapped with most heroes, and even then it's only the modern Batman who does that. Of course, there's always resurrection (in which case, Joker might be piiiiiiiiissed at the guy who shot him!), but still.

 

[DerangedHobo]

He's a mass murdering sociopath, regardless of your morals or views on violence it would be immoral to not kill him. Not doing anything would make you indirectly responsible for the more people he would (inevitably) kill. Personally I don't believe in the death penalty but killing the Joker is the only option here to prevent more death and bloodshed.

So yes, I would do it and I'd fucking cut his head off just to make sure.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

An interesting moral dilemma for you all: If given the opportunity, would you kill the Joker?

Here's the scene: You and the Joker are in an abandoned building together. Batman, the rest of the Bat-family, and the Gotham police force are all on the other side of town dealing with one of the Joker's schemes. You're 100% certain of this fact. No one is aware of where you two are, and no one is coming any time soon.

The Joker has no goons, no Harley, no weapons, no traps, and is unconscious on the ground. You have a gun. A 100% real, non-trick, kill-you gun.

The Joker hasn't actually DONE anything to you. He hasn't killed anyone you know or care about. But, his reputation remains. He's killed thousands, he's going to continue killing in the future, and his current scheme is probably killing people as you're standing there.

You could put a bullet in his head, and no-one would ever know... or probably care. And even in the HIGHLY unlikely event that someone figures out it was you (again, almost impossible to do), you could simply claim self-defense, and that'd be enough for basically everyone. Do you take this one, single opportunity to stop him here and now, and possibly save thousands of lives?

Remember, this is the Gotham justice system we're talking about here. Even if you simply turned him in, he'd just get thrown in Arkham again, and escape again, and nothing would change.

Despite all this... I don't think I could do it. I just don't think I have it in me for cold-blooded murder like that.

Killing the Joker may be a short term solution to a permanent problem, and while "no one would know", I would and that is the difference. Batman does his job, the job the cops can't handle apparently and apprehends the Joker. The inability of the GPD to keep Joker under wraps isn't Batman's failing. He doesn't have to do anything, he doesn't have to solve cases no one else is able to, he doesn't have to be Batman. He chooses to be Batman and with that comes a set of personal morals and ethics, the mainstay of which is Batman does not kill. To do so would lower himself to a vengeance seeker, not a justice seeker. Yes he's done a lot of bad things, A LOT. But Batman isn't Judge Dredd. He's the cop that can operate outside the established by law protocol. Yes he's a vigilante, and I believe he knows his actions while helping the citizens of Gotham, are still by state/federal standards illegal. He chooses to take the risk of being arrested to do the greatest good without resorting to capital crimes such as murder. If he were to cross that line, no matter how much good he did from there on he wouldn't be anything more than a criminal vigilante like that other dude that took over for him when Bane broke his back.

 

[Pandabearparade]

No hesitation. He'd be one dead clown. Would have to resist the urge not to kneecap him and shoot him in the balls a couple times first, to be honest.

 

[Giyguy]

yes, i would kill him. if this were real life, I'd kill the son of a *****. anybody that gets anywhere near a triple digit bodycount in civilian society kinda needs to be killed for the good of humanity. considering the guy's record with not staying in the asylum, if you can't contain someone like him, you kill him so he won't kill others. extreme situations call for extreme solutions, and that special type of bastard qualifies.

and don't give me that crap about "if you kill him you'll be just like him", because that isn't actually true. you'd be shaken up, yes, but just because you killed a mass murderer doesn't mean you'd want to take up the said murderer's hobby.

don't get me wrong, I like the character. but ONLY if he is a fictional character.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

I would probably go about it this way:

 

[Necrofudge]

Honestly, it would be like asking if someone would kill Hitler, if Hitler had face paint and was way more eccentric, and participated more actively in his crimes against humanity.

I'm not sure if I had it in me to kill him, but I would if I could. Honestly, I probably wouldn't even be haunted by the thought. It's not like he had a bright future ahead of him anyway.

 

[Pandabearparade]

Well ok yeah, the impact is different. However you're still lowering yourself to his level, aren't you?

If you wouldn't lower yourself to prevent the magnitude of suffering killing the Joker would, I don't think you have much of a high horse to begin with. It would be pure selfishness not to put the Joker down.

 

[Shock and Awe]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Its my ethical philosophy that when you can neutralize a threat without killing the person and without taking undue risk to others, you should pursue that path. The problem is, with the Joker that "undue risk to others" part is a big issue. He always escapes and kills more. I am morally obligated to put a bullet in his brain.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Well ok yeah, the impact is different. However you're still lowering yourself to his level, aren't you?

So? What's more important, maintaining your position on your higher level or preventing all the suffering he'll go on to cause?

And that's even if you were actually going to his level, which would be the level of murdering people because it's fun. You'd be lowering yourself to the level of someone who kills someone to protect the people they would inevitably go on to hurt and kill; it's much higher up on the morality ladder.

Maybe it is, but I cannot kill someone in cold blood while they lie defenceless on the floor, even if it is the Joker. Now if he was up and awake an we were in some sort of life or death struggle then maybe I'd kill him.

Okay, if such a situation ever comes up, make sure to give the gun to someone who puts the lives and safety of dozens, if not hundreds, of other people over their desire to not do anything that goes against their morals.

Hey there's no need to attack me!!

 

[Lonewolfm16]

I'm a Utilitarian with a belief in a system of retributive justice... he's so dead. I would be willing to kill innocent people if it meant I could kill him. I've always considered that Batman is willing to let thousands of innocents die so he can stroke his own sense of moral superiority to be a moral failing. So, dude gets a bullet to the head.

 

[Sarge034]

An interesting moral dilemma for you all: If given the opportunity, would you kill the Joker?...

I would without a second thought. So what if he hasn't killed anyone I care about yet? He is still an evil threat to the lives of the innocent.

Although it probably don't help I relate to this guy...

Spoiler

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[Olas]

Realistically I'd probably kill him, though the sadist in me would prefer to make him suffer a little for what he's done.



ultimately though, this being the joker, he'd probably just enjoy anything anyone does to him.

 

[BartyMae]

I would say the best choice would probably be to...but I feel like I would be too weak to do so myself.

 

[Neverhoodian]

Absolutely. I don't adhere to the whole "if I kill this mass murderer, I'm no better than he is" bullcrap. Assuming it's the comic version, he's killed thousands of people in his career of crime. Moreover, it should be obvious to everyone by now that he's never going to change his ways. I would have a moral obligation to kill him in such a scenario so nobody else has to die because of him.

Batman, I love ya, but your moral code can be completely asinine sometimes.

 

[O maestre]

No. Why? Because if I did I'd be no better than him.

I never knew killing one mass murdering psychopath who will very likely end up killing more people in the future equated to killing dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of people because it's funny.

Cold blooded murder is cold blooded murder whether it be one or one hundred thousand.

The impact is different, each one of those thousand people were individuals not just numbers, each on of them had thoughts and aspiration for the future, had loved ones had community ties, someone like Stalin would say that the death of one is the same as the death of a thousand. By your logic serial killers should only be charged with with one count of murder, actually by your reasoning there would be no such thing as serial killers. When it comes to people numbers do count, at least they do to me.

Well ok yeah, the impact is different. However you're still lowering yourself to his level, aren't you?

First we have to accept that morality is nor objective, by that extension context is everything... kind of the reason we have court cases to determine degrees of sentencing and juries, because context is important. The Jokers background is at best political at worst for his own enjoyment. I would kill him to not only to protect myself, but at the massive scale of his killings to protect my family, and my fellow man and his family. I am not debasing myself at all, in accordance to my own personal morality, whether it is in line with judicial morality... well that is for a jury to decide

 

[O maestre]

Well ok yeah, the impact is different. However you're still lowering yourself to his level, aren't you?

So? What's more important, maintaining your position on your higher level or preventing all the suffering he'll go on to cause?

And that's even if you were actually going to his level, which would be the level of murdering people because it's fun. You'd be lowering yourself to the level of someone who kills someone to protect the people they would inevitably go on to hurt and kill; it's much higher up on the morality ladder.

Maybe it is, but I cannot kill someone in cold blood while they lie defenceless on the floor, even if it is the Joker. Now if he was up and awake an we were in some sort of life or death struggle then maybe I'd kill him.

Okay, if such a situation ever comes up, make sure to give the gun to someone who puts the lives and safety of dozens, if not hundreds, of other people over their desire to not do anything that goes against their morals.

Hey there's no need to attack me!!

I don't think he was attacking you, merely stating that if you are unwilling to take action you should step aside and let someone else make a crucial decision, you yourself stated that you wouldn't be able to do it unless very specific circumstances were present. Though you don't seem to comfortable with it since you regard his comment as an attack.