Xbox 360's Death Rate is 54.2%

[CmdrGoob]

"Several of your friends" + 5000 surveyed is still statistically a speck on a grain of dust, and not nearly worth the near-rabid attention it gets.

5000 people is a huge sample - for example the typical political opinion poll samples 1000 to 2000 people out of 300M americans and yet typically has a margin of error of 5% or less.

People who haven't studied statistics often make the mistake of believing because the sample size is a small proportion of the population size, the result must be inaccurate. That is not true.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

So because those who mistreat their consoles are not excluded, the 54.2% must be made of mistreaters exclusively?

...

"Less hearty" really isn't strong enough wording.

Not at all. Because those who mistreat their consoles are not excluded, you cannot reasonably deduce that 100% of the 54.2% fail rate stated isn't caused by mistreatment. The survey only offers two pieces of usable information: 5,000 people who own a console & had enough time / gave enough of a shit to complete a GI survey, and how many of that population had a console that failed. With these data, it is absolutely untrue to make a claim that 54.2% of 360s will fail due to design flaws. Maybe the actual design fail rate is still more than PS3, but the fact of the matter is that any such deduction is at the hands of the interpreter; in this case, thousands of people on the internet. I only state that the survey is not statistically significant, not that it is statistically wrong.

"Less hearty" is just a nice way of saying "still kinda useful junk."

By blocking the ventilation I assume you mean aligning the console horizontally, as other users have claimed in this thread?

...

I suppose that is one way to block the ventilation, but really there are many ways to do it. I had a PS2 in the dorms, and it would frequently wind up with dirty laundry on it, blocking the ventilation. Look at the demographic of gamers - I can tell you with a high degree of certainty that the average microwave consumer doesn't have as high a rate of cat-assing, insomnia, and death due to malnutrition. I have no statistical evidence, but the reality is that the "gamer" population is still a relatively small subset of the total consumer electronics market. The "average gamer" is absolutely not equivalent to the "average electronics consumer," and any assessment of the ability to properly care for consumer electronics by rather subtle means cannot be deduced without scrutiny.

As of this writing I had my first 360 hardware failure. After many years of service, my original wireless controller will be deconstructed and used for other electronics projects. The battery will continue to serve as a quick-swap for my new wireless controller. I shall write a sarcasticly angry letter to Micro$oft in the coming days, demanding they make a higher quality product.

"Several of your friends" + 5000 surveyed is still statistically a speck on a grain of dust, and not nearly worth the near-rabid attention it gets.

5000 people is a huge sample - for example the typical political opinion poll samples 1000 to 2000 people out of 300M americans and yet typically has a margin of error of 5% or less.

People who haven't studied statistics often make the mistake of believing because the sample size is a small proportion of the population size, the result must be inaccurate. That is not true.

You've studied statistics, and believe political opinion polls are an accurate assessment of zeitgeist? Hey, at least those come from "totally random" samples. You know, those people who ask if you want to do a survey in various public places, or by phone? The ones that most people don't really want to talk to? Yeah, totally accurate. Not skewed in the least.
/sarcasm

 

[Hamster at Dawn]

I thought the PS3 was good but even that has a 10% failure rate which isn't great really. It might be the lesser of two evils but it still sucks.

 

[Rachmaninov]

You've studied statistics, and believe political opinion polls are an accurate assessment of zeitgeist? Hey, at least those come from "totally random" samples. You know, those people who ask if you want to do a survey in various public places, or by phone? The ones that most people don't really want to talk to? Yeah, totally accurate. Not skewed in the least.
/sarcasm

I may be missing something here but;

This isn't a political opinion poll, this is a well sized, random sampling. Surveys of this size and type have used for decades, because they're actually suprisingly accurate.

Game Informer is an unbiased source (from what I've seen), and therefore on average its readership will also be unbiased. You'll have a roughly equal amount of fanboys/haters of each console.

And you still haven't discussed the fact that there is evidence out there that corroborates this poll.

This poll is not the first piece of evidence for me, it is just yet another little reminder of the criminal failure that is the Xbox 360.

 

[DemonCrim]

I got RROD and Microsoft tried to charge me so I fixed it myself and did a little tinkering <.< teach you to cross me you bastards. I'm not putting another dime into that piece of crap. And for the record I have and Elite.

 

[HyenaThePirate]

I think the only thing that really matters to me is, when an xbox 360 dies, Microsoft has made serious efforts to appease it's customers, often at little or no cost to the consumer while acknowledging the faults of their product.

When a PS3 dies (or for that matter, in my experience ANY Sony product), it's almost always YOUR fault according to Sony, requires moderate costs to replace or repair, takes twice as long for the issue to be resolved, and all the while Sony blames YOU never acknowledging that their product could conceivably had anything resembling a flaw.

These days, customer service is what I base my brand loyalty on, not product. In truth, as a working adult with disposable income to burn, none of these consoles were out of my price range and I like playing games so I own both an xbox and a ps3.
What I DO like is the peace of mind that if something goes wrong with my Xbox, Microsoft will at least make an effort to please me. Sony on the other hand has done nothing but fight me every step of the way on anything. I learned my lesson when I had an issue with my Sony Viao laptop. The power supply was faulty and apparently shorted, but Sony insisted it was because I must have "charged it wrong". As if charging a laptop battery was some complicated task.
That has always left a bad taste in my mouth. Before that, My PS2 had issue with the disk drive years ago. Again, according to Sony it must have been from me trying to play something else in my PS2, like a bag full of screws or something.
Customer service plays a big part in my shopping preferences. I don't care how good your product is, if your service is shitty, that reflects on your company and product and I'll be less likely to do business with you when ANY other alternative is available.

 

[TimeLord]

The Red Ring of Death is the only thing keeping me from getting a 360. These nubers scare me about what might happen if I get one.

Same here, I have a base Xbox 360 and want an Elite, but my little 360 hasn't broken yet, if I get an elite I don't want it to break

 

[Xaositect]

Well, at the risk of sounding like a 360 fanboy, never misunderestimise the value of experiencing these things yourself, and not letting a survey do it for you.

I know RROD is a fucking bad problem, Ive had it happen to myself, though only once.

I however sent my plucky little Wii off for some repairs a while back though, and it came back with some plucky little freezing problems and a pluckly little buzzing power brick that could cause plucky little electrical fires. Nintendo had it in for repairs, sent back a clearly new power cable+brick, and said they checked it and found "no problems". *cough*bullshit*cough* Basically the point Im making is, surveys aside, never underestimate the power of bad luck.

That all said though, that is still a fucking shocking figure.

 

[Kijjy]

this is the exact reason i got a PS3 after my 360 broke 4 times

1.overheated
2.rrod
3.disc tray didn't open
4.scratched discs

and plus the PS3 is better in every way apart from breaking

 

[GideonB]

I think Microsoft should have location tested before they they released the 360, might have fixed the RRoD problem from the start and kept the failure rate to a low, like the *sighs* Wii although most of those failure rates are from bricking it, it doesn't come to me as much of a surprise that the 360's death rate is so high. I'm pretty damn sure everyone I know knows more than 3 people who have RRoD on their 360 at least once

 

[HentMas]

yeah, my really really old XBOX is old too and its still kicking!!!

 

[Jumplion]

I think the only thing that really matters to me is, when an xbox 360 dies, Microsoft has made serious efforts to appease it's customers, often at little or no cost to the consumer while acknowledging the faults of their product.

When a PS3 dies (or for that matter, in my experience ANY Sony product), it's almost always YOUR fault according to Sony, requires moderate costs to replace or repair, takes twice as long for the issue to be resolved, and all the while Sony blames YOU never acknowledging that their product could conceivably had anything resembling a flaw.

Actually, according to the survey (I have the magazine with me) all consoles averaged at about 2 weeks in repairs, but the 360 went upwards to a month while the Wii and PS3 took a week or less. Again, just according to this survey, but all customer services have their good sides and bad sides (mostly bad sides).

Personally, however, unlike you I grade a console by it's manufacturing in this case (just personally, not attacking you or anything). I'll say it as many times as I have to, I am absolutely apalled with Microsoft for letting these retarded console breaking faults in their system, and I can never look the other way if I ever consider purchasing a 360. I don't give two hoots if they fix it for free and send it in 5 days, sending it for the 5th time kind of wears out the novelty of "free" and that's my time spent that could have been used on a new game or something. I'll have the same stance if it was on Sony, they cannot expect me, as a customer, to expect my console to die every time I turn the damn thing on. Just my opinion on this of course.

Condense

Why are you trying to put the blame on the consumer? Of course things are going to happen with mishandling a product, but most of them can usually take it. My launch PS2 has only had one problem, and that was fixed by dusting it off from the inside. I'm sure plenty of people still have their NES and SNES and N64s despite manhandling them over the years. Well ventilated room, proper air circulation, all of that is standard for keeping any electronic product well kept, but most can handle some humidity for a time.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

You've studied statistics, and believe political opinion polls are an accurate assessment of zeitgeist? Hey, at least those come from "totally random" samples. You know, those people who ask if you want to do a survey in various public places, or by phone? The ones that most people don't really want to talk to? Yeah, totally accurate. Not skewed in the least.
/sarcasm

I may be missing something here but;

This isn't a political opinion poll, this is a well sized, random sampling. Surveys of this size and type have used for decades, because they're actually suprisingly accurate.

Game Informer is an unbiased source (from what I've seen), and therefore on average its readership will also be unbiased. You'll have a roughly equal amount of fanboys/haters of each console.

And you still haven't discussed the fact that there is evidence out there that corroborates this poll.

This poll is not the first piece of evidence for me, it is just yet another little reminder of the criminal failure that is the Xbox 360.

That's fair. However, to say GI is an unbiased source doesn't account for a significant market because it only samples gamers, and even from that - only the ones interested in GI to begin with. There are plenty of non-gamers with consoles (especially PS3), and plenty more who don't think of GI as the shining pinnacle of print media. The fact that surveys require volunteer participation means that more extreme, outspoken people are drawn to complete them than the actual mean of consumers. Extreme left, when averaged with extreme right may provide a decent eyeball estimate of the average, but is also cleverly deceptive when the math is applied.

By providing a specifically calculated measure of 54.2%, that implies a highly accurate estimate. Far more accurate than a small sample like 5,000 would show. Without pulling out Statistics books, I'd say the margin of error is at least 30% (+15/-15). It's just as possible that 70% of 360s brick as 40%. Yeah, it's still bricking more often than the competitors, but the claim of 54.2% is a number meant for the general populace to absorb and accept blindly, not statistical reporting.

When was the last time you saw a survey report a t-score, or standard deviations? I think a lot of people are missing my point, looking at my claims as fanboyism. Little batches of evidence are all over the place, and I think we're all in agreement that 360 is poorly designed. I only ask that my fellow Escapists look at surveys with more scrutiny, not just when it comes to consoles.

Why are you trying to put the blame on the consumer? Of course things are going to happen with mishandling a product, but most of them can usually take it. My launch PS2 has only had one problem, and that was fixed by dusting it off from the inside. I'm sure plenty of people still have their NES and SNES and N64s despite manhandling them over the years. Well ventilated room, proper air circulation, all of that is standard for keeping any electronic product well kept, but most can handle some humidity for a time.

I think you misinterpret that point. I brought it up in support of statistics only. Because the study neither includes nor excludes the portion of the sample population that doesn't take good care of their console, you must conclude that they account for some of the sample. It's only a potentially biasing factor in the sample, not an assessment of the consumer population's ability to take care of the hardware. I've maintained that the 360 is poorly designed all along, and it truly is sad that they pushed it to market in such poor condition. However, I've also maintained the validity of the study's claim is highly uncertain, and should be regarded with significant scrutiny.

 

[MasterOfHisOwnDomain]

Having experienced the red ring of death myself and knowing so many others who have, the only thing that surprises me is how low the statistic is...

 

[GhostKnifeFish]

I'm on my second 360. I was so pissed off when my first brokedown on me...

 

[Jumplion]

okay let me make a point. the xbox applies to people that still like good games, great online multiplayer and dont have 600 bucks to spend on the core system of the PS3. granted the PS3 has lots of good games. I would like to play many of them and first and foremost i am a sony fan. BUt its so damn expesnive. and lets face it...the xboxlive multiplayer is dominating. sure we have had to make a few sacrfices like lame avatars and paying for it but its way better than sony's. The xbox, at the moment has a wider range of games than the PS3 and with the new pricing of the elite with two free, good games i see it dominating the market for a while. SO STOP WHINING!!!

its not my fault you payed extra money for a console that is failing.

and I wont even go into the way the Wii has failed me.

so in conclusion. Stop whining, why does it matter if you dont own an xbox 360? and if you do and you dislike it than go buy another system. Meanwhile I'lll be having fun on my ticking time bomb while you flail your arms about like a retard on the wii/wonder why everyone is playing such a "shit" system like the xbox.

and to be clear i am not a console fanboy. I would have gotten the PS3 but i dont have money coming out of my pockets to spend and ya know, I like to play my games with friends. But as soon as the prices drops or after all the new games come out for it, I may get it.

cant say the same for the wii

You've missed his point and accused him of saying things he never did. He never said the 360 was a "shit" system, only that the failure rate is absolutely horrendous which I agree with.

How are we whining? How is calling out a company that, according to this survey, has a console that will crash on you 50% of the time? We're whining that we have to risk turning the damn console on and have it break down for the 50th time? So it's not okay to "whine" about a 50% failure rate, about a console that will most likely break on you 1/2 of the time? I don't call that whining, I call that good customer reactions.

Sorry if I'm coming off as overly aggressive, but I've stated my stance on the RRoD and the failure rate of the 360, and I find it absolutely appalling for Microsoft to have let this slip past manufacturing. I don't give a crap if they fix it for free or if they extended the warranty, if I end up expecting my console to die out on me every time I turn it on then something is wrong.

Do not think for a second that I'm trying to be a fanboy here, if Sony, or hell, any company had an electronic that broke down 50% of the time they'd lose a tremendous amount of my respect and most likely my money. So far, that has yet to happen with my PS3, but make no doubt if my PS3 ended up breaking 3 times then it's strike out. 1st time, okay, things happen. 2nd time, fine, let me play games. 3rd time's the charm, you're out, you cannot expect me as a customer to deal with that bullshit.

Play your 360, I don't care, be happy and play your games. Just don't think that it isn't a big deal and that we're "whining" about a faulty system. I'm not trying to come off as hostile, aggressive, or a fanboy, but I will never be able to look the other way of Microsoft's shit up.

 

[XT inc]

the weird thing about failing xboxs is how little it ever effected me. I am on my third and the repair process was so simple it just doesn't bother me. It breaks I ship it out and its back well within 4 days and I get a 1 month card for xbl for free.

 

[MK Tha Rebel]

Still it is the best console on the market right now if you ask me. I mean as long as you take care of it, i.e., get a fan or put it somewere were the air can get to it stuff like that its gonna be fine. Besides, it cant be too perfect right? its gotta have some flaws

Please tell me you're kidding.

An over 50% death rate isn't a "flaw," that's a deterrent. If a phone had a 54.2% chance of dying, you could bet money that that phone A: wouldn't sell, and B: would be off the market in record time. And you could damn sure bet that people would be furious at whatever company made the phone, demand full refunds, and buy a different phone. Same goes for TVs, MP3 players, Microwaves, bread knives, sandwiches, and EVERYTHING ELSE. Now apparently, this doesn't apply to video games. The fact that a total recall of the 360 hasn't been done yet to resolve all these issues, let alone AT ALL, is nothing short of astounding.

And, for the record, "Great customer service" and extended warranties don't count as resolving the issues. The hardware should be up to par in the first place.

okay let me make a point. the xbox applies to people that still like good games, great online multiplayer and dont have 600 bucks to spend on the core system of the PS3. granted the PS3 has lots of good games. I would like to play many of them and first and foremost i am a sony fan. BUt its so damn expesnive. and lets face it...the xboxlive multiplayer is dominating. sure we have had to make a few sacrfices like lame avatars and paying for it but its way better than sony's. The xbox, at the moment has a wider range of games than the PS3 and with the new pricing of the elite with two free, good games i see it dominating the market for a while. SO STOP WHINING!!!

its not my fault you payed extra money for a console that is failing.

and I wont even go into the way the Wii has failed me.

so in conclusion. Stop whining, why does it matter if you dont own an xbox 360? and if you do and you dislike it than go buy another system. Meanwhile I'lll be having fun on my ticking time bomb while you flail your arms about like a retard on the wii/wonder why everyone is playing such a "shit" system like the xbox.

and to be clear i am not a console fanboy. I would have gotten the PS3 but i dont have money coming out of my pockets to spend and ya know, I like to play my games with friends. But as soon as the prices drops or after all the new games come out for it, I may get it.

cant say the same for the wii

Either you're quoting the wrong post, or you didn't READ my post.

 

[Nouw]

He-he. My 3 year old xbox is still running strong.

Dont jinx it. XD

OT:And I'm buying one soon.....