Xcom vs. Xenonauts

Amaror

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So xenonauts, the unofficial xcom sequel, is now largely feature complete and will be released after another 2 months of polish. And what better time is there to compare the unofficial xcom sequel to the official xcom sequel. Well, maybe the actual release, but i want to do this now so i am going to do it now.
Mostly i think that Xenonauts is the better game and i will do my best to explain why i think that. Now: While i will say a couple of bad things about Xcom EU i don't think it's a bad game. In fact i think it is a really good game, but i also think that the developers made a couple of mistakes which kept the game from becoming a great game.

1. Immersion

The first reason why i think that xenonauts is the better game is immersion. One of my biggest problems with Xcom EU is that so much of it just feels so gamey. A few examples:

Your dropship can only carry four soldiers in the beginning and is magically able to carry more soldiers because you spent some money on the officer academy. That makes no sense. - In xenonauts your dropship can also only carry a certain amount of soldiers in the beginning. And that number increases when you research and build better dropships with more space and better engines. That makes sense.

Your soldiers can just carry a specific amount of items in addition to their weapons. It makes sense from a gameplay standpoint, but it's really gamey - In Xenonauts you equip your soldier what you like. Additionaly to your armour and weapons slots, you also have a Belt and a Backpack to carry items as you like. But too much weight and your soldier will be encumbered and loose time units.

Cover. Cover in enemy unknown reduces the enemies accuracy. It's fine from a gameplay standpoint but again makes no sense. - In xenonauts when an object is in the line of fire, the projectile has a chance to hit that object instead of the unit getting shot at. It makes sense, is intuitive and fun. Also your soldiers don't have to cuddle up to cover anymore, as long as it's between you and the enemy, it works.

And now the big one: Activation of Enemies. This is one of the things which made the battles pretty boring pretty quickly for me. I know others enjoy it but i just despise it. Enemies getting activated on sight, just makes no sense. These are really advanced alien races and they can't just call their alies ten meters away to help with those nasty units? - In Xenonauts aliens move freely around the map and engage your units, even if you can't see them. Things are a lot more tense and exciting, because your soldiers are NOT 100% save as long as they don't see the enemies first. It's also much more realistic and immersive. Additionaly the ground battles are a lot more unpredictable and a lot more fun.

Another point in xenonauts favour is the scale. The Scale in EU has been reduced a lot compared to the original. Smaller Maps, fever soldiers. It isn't bad, but doesn't really feel like i am fighting an epic alien invasion. In Xenonauts it feels a lot more like an invasion. While the aliens start by sending single ufos around the globe, they soon start sending their ufos in waves, making it harder for you too shoot all of them down. And after you manage to down quite a few ufos of them, they also start sending in "Air superiority" squads, ufos whose sole purpose is to shoot down your aircraft. It feels a lot more like your fighting a real enemy, that's adapting their strategy to your resistance.
Terror missions also feel a lot bigger. The bigger maps of course help, but the major work is done by the fluff. A single line of text in the debriefing screen: "Nuclear weaponry has been deployed for the worst case." Basically the aliens are rampaging through the city and the local forces can't stop them. In case that the xenonauts fail they nuke the place, saving at least parts of the city and saving a few, but also resulting in thousands of civilian deaths. The scale and importance of the battle just shoots through the roof and it makes a lot more sense, then everyone being upset because 10 - 20 people, in a city inhabitated by thousands, maybe millions, died.

2. Airiel warfare.

The combat in the Air was a lacking part in Enemy Unknown and the original. But in Xenonauts it got a complete overhaul and is not only realy important to fight the alien threat but also really fun. Instead of having 1 on 1 battles with the ufos, you can send out squadrons of up to 3 fighters. The Alien can also have 3 ufos with them, either one larger ufo with an escort or 3 small interceptor ufos to shoot down your fighters.
The air combat itself gets fought on a 2D plane, managing speed and direction of your Interceptors to destroy the enemy ufos, while trying to avoid their shots. This leads to exciting battles, allowing flanking tactics againt larger ufos or tense fights with enemy interceptors.
Flanking and outmanouvering the enemy is supported by Static fire arcs of ships and ufos and ufos being more vulnerable from the sides or behind than from the front.

3. Graphics.

This may sound crazy but i do like the graphics from xenonauts more then the ones from Enemy unknown. Sure xenonauts graphics are a bit dated looking 2D sprites, while Enemy unknown has those shiny new 3D models, but that's exactly what makes xenonauts ones better.
Everything in Enemy unknown just looks too shiny. Xenonauts graphic style delivers a much more dark and oppresive athmosphere. It feels a lot more like fighting a battle against an superiour foe. Additionaly the progression is just visually fantastic. Everything that is an upgrade just looks way cooler then the thing it's replacing. Lasers look way cooler then balistic weapons and plasma looks way cooler then lasers. The same is true for the armour. In Enemy unknown i was quite dissapointed by the look of the psy armor. Really - late game armour, but it doesn't look cool at all. In fact it looks a lot weaker then every other armour.

In the end, xenonauts is a fantastic game. If you liked the original xcom or Enemy unknown i am sure that you will like this one. Additionaly it's only 16,99 on Steam, about half the price of the expansion Enemy Within! And i allready had around double the amount of hours into it compared to Enemy Unknown and Enemy Within.
 

Zhukov

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I prefer XCOM:EU purely for the ability to park your soldiers on a corner and have them automatically be able to peek around and see what's around said corner while remaining in cover.

Soooo much better than the old school technique of checking corners by marching out into the open like a complete twit.

Oh, be aware that you posted this thread three times. A mod will probably clean it up for you.
 

Amaror

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Zhukov said:
I prefer XCOM:EU purely for the ability to park your soldiers on a corner and have them automatically be able to peek around and see what's around said corner while remaining in cover.

Soooo much better than the old school technique of checking corners by marching out into the open like a complete twit.

Oh, be aware that you posted this thread three times. A mod will probably clean it up for you.
Well that comes with the entirely different cover mechanics of both games. I like the one from xenonauts better, but to each his own i guess.
I would still advice you to at least try it out, as i said, it's pretty cheap, considering the content.

And thanks for the reminder about the three threads. I noticed it shortly after posting myself and edited the other to, to ask mods to remove them.
 

Pink Gregory

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I like both styles. Though I appreciated the more compact tactical battles of EU, I also appreciate the scale and logistics part of X-Com. Really the only problem with X-Com is the horrible, horrible UI. Everything else is still perfectly serviceable, especially when open-source clones exist.

I see no reason to declare the inherent superiority of one over the other, even if Xenonauts *is* closer to the original, and therefore more accurate.

That's not an opinion I actually hear a lot on the internet.
 

Savagezion

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Yeah, I love X-com but it is certainly flawed. Satellite spam, ugh. The UI, bugs ruining iron man games. But I sure got excited when they added a farm map like a fanboy, I'll admit. Enemy Within is pretty awesome if they can patch out the bugs.

I see Xenonauts as the true sequel. But it has flaws still remaining as Zhukov pointed out. I always hated opening UFO doors. "Hey rookie, I got an important job for you." X-Com is a remake that feels like it turned into something else. I like it, but it does feel different.
 

Amaror

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Savagezion said:
Yeah, I love X-com but it is certainly flawed. Satellite spam, ugh. The UI, bugs ruining iron man games. But I sure got excited when they added a farm map like a fanboy, I'll admit. Enemy Within is pretty awesome if they can patch out the bugs.

I see Xenonauts as the true sequel. But it has flaws still remaining as Zhukov pointed out. I always hated opening UFO doors. "Hey rookie, I got an important job for you." X-Com is a remake that feels like it turned into something else. I like it, but it does feel different.
Yeah, they do both have their merits and i do think that EU is a very good game, but i think xenonauts is better.
I actually think that xenonauts has the perfect solution to the Ufo door opening disaster. Have you tried the combat shields yet? They. Are. Awesome! Seriously. It means your Shieldbearers can aim to soak the reaction shots and are really well protected to survive it. Add smoke grenades to that to reduce the aliens acuracy and your golden.
In my most recent playthroughs i didn't lose a single soldier to Door openings, ufo or not. Without save - scumming of course.
 

Qvar

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Ugh I don't know. I like the 3D models much better. But I still have some hungry for militaristic anti-alien turn-based strategy+tactic game, so I may check it out again when it's released and at sale.

Amaror said:
Cover. Cover in enemy unknown reduces the enemies accuracy. It's fine from a gameplay standpoint but again makes no sense. - In xenonauts when an object is in the line of fire, the projectile has a chance to hit that object instead of the unit getting shot at. It makes sense, is intuitive and fun. Also your soldiers don't have to cuddle up to cover anymore, as long as it's between you and the enemy, it works.

Have we been playing the same game? Cover does recive hits and gets destroyed in XCOM:EU. Ovbiously aliens aren't going to specifically target your cover (or will they? dundunduuun), they are trying to hit those limbs that aren't covered, so sometimes they'll hit the cover, sometimes they'll miss completely.
 

Amaror

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Qvar said:
Ugh I don't know. I like the 3D models much better. But I still have some hungry for militaristic anti-alien turn-based strategy+tactic game, so I may check it out again when it's released and at sale.

Amaror said:
Cover. Cover in enemy unknown reduces the enemies accuracy. It's fine from a gameplay standpoint but again makes no sense. - In xenonauts when an object is in the line of fire, the projectile has a chance to hit that object instead of the unit getting shot at. It makes sense, is intuitive and fun. Also your soldiers don't have to cuddle up to cover anymore, as long as it's between you and the enemy, it works.

Have we been playing the same game? Cover does recive hits and gets destroyed in XCOM:EU. Ovbiously aliens aren't going to specifically target your cover (or will they? dundunduuun), they are trying to hit those limbs that aren't covered, so sometimes they'll hit the cover, sometimes they'll miss completely.
Yes i know that sometimes cover gets hit. My Problem with the cover system is that it's pretty binary.
Is he in cover? - If he is in cover, is he being flanked? - If he isn't being flanked is he in High cover or low cover?
High cover: +x defence
Low cover: +y defence.

It is not bad per se, but it only works if the units are actually directly behind cover.
Let me use an example to explain:
You have one Alien and one Soldier. They are, say 15 meter apart. Now in the middle between both of them stands a tree.
In EU, the Alien has the exact same chance to hit the Soldier, as if the tree wasn't there.
In Xenonauts, the tree, since it is in the Line of Fire, has a chance of deflecting the shot, reducing the chance of the soldier getting hit.

It makes more sense and just seems so much more realistic and way less gamey.
I do hope that you try the game out. The Graphics might turn you off a little bit at first.
But trust me you will grow to like them.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Eh...I dunno. I actually kickstarted (or backed, or helped fund, or something...not even sure if Kickstarter was a thing back then) Xenonauts before XCOM:EU was even a thing. It was the first time I ever put money into an unfinished game...that's how much I adore turn based tactical shooters. And I played a build of it a while back downloaded through Desura...not the release version, but a reasonably polished beta build that was full featured in a lot of ways. And uh...well...it was pretty bad. Absolutely joyless graphics...it's not the fact that they're 90's quality, that doesn't bother me. It's the complete lack of art direction, or at the very least art direction as envisioned by an aging, terminally depressed accountant. The UI feels a bit dated, and the combat and animations are lifeless and dull...it makes Shadowrun Returns look like a AAA spectacle. Mechanically it's a fine shooting game, but EVERYTHING around the fringes screams shovelware quality production.

I'm glad some people are enjoying it though, as I felt (and still feel) like it was a worthy project, and I hope it does well for itself. I just...don't think it's a very good game.
 

Cerebrawl

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Loved the original XCOM(UFO: Enemy Uknown), loved XCOM: Apocalypse despite its flaws, loved the XCOM remake, loved UFO: AI.

Played one combat in Xenonauts and quit because it was so shit. Though this was a few months ago(winter holiday steam sale), so maybe it's improved. But the combat and UI was complete and utter garbage at that point. It's like a 20 year old inferior freeware fan knock-off of the original. This could've been on a demo-disc in the the mid 90s. The original still looks and plays better than this, and I have the gold edition which still runs on PC without dosboxing.
 

TreuloseTomate

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Amaror said:
So xenonauts, the unofficial xcom sequel, is now largely feature complete and will be released after another 2 months of polish.
...
Have you played Jagged Alliance 2 by any chance? I like the isometric style and turn based combat, and I'd like to know how it compares to JA2's combat. I've watched some videos of Xenonauts last year, and it looked pretty bland and unfinished, especially the animations and sound effects. How is the game now?
 

Fdzzaigl

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I'll buy it when it's out, or sometime after. Still haven't been bothered to buy "Enemy Within", there's just too much on the list right now.

I'm also really not interested in playing the "vs" game and "this game is bettah cus" with these things. Imo, it's good that they're being made at all, I'll just judge em on their own merits.
 

Amaror

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BloatedGuppy said:
Eh...I dunno. I actually kickstarted (or backed, or helped fund, or something...not even sure if Kickstarter was a thing back then) Xenonauts before XCOM:EU was even a thing. It was the first time I ever put money into an unfinished game...that's how much I adore turn based tactical shooters. And I played a build of it a while back downloaded through Desura...not the release version, but a reasonably polished beta build that was full featured in a lot of ways. And uh...well...it was pretty bad. Absolutely joyless graphics...it's not the fact that they're 90's quality, that doesn't bother me. It's the complete lack of art direction, or at the very least art direction as envisioned by an aging, terminally depressed accountant. The UI feels a bit dated, and the combat and animations are lifeless and dull...it makes Shadowrun Returns look like a AAA spectacle. Mechanically it's a fine shooting game, but EVERYTHING around the fringes screams shovelware quality production.

I'm glad some people are enjoying it though, as I felt (and still feel) like it was a worthy project, and I hope it does well for itself. I just...don't think it's a very good game.
I would load up the most recent version one more time. Exspecially in the geoscape screen, most of the Screens and UI has been replaced. The old ones were just placeholders.
I can't say that the graphics have more "joy", as i said the oppressive graphic style is one of the things i like about the game. That being said, the combat graphics haven't changed that much, at least i think they don't.
And i am not a particullary needy person when it comes to graphics. i usually don't let it get in the way of my fun, when the game is mechanically sound.

In the End, you should try it again. At least the geoscape graphics have improved a LOT.
 

Amaror

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TreuloseTomate said:
Amaror said:
So xenonauts, the unofficial xcom sequel, is now largely feature complete and will be released after another 2 months of polish.
...
Have you played Jagged Alliance 2 by any chance? I like the isometric style and turn based combat, and I'd like to know how it compares to JA2's combat. I've watched some videos of Xenonauts last year, and it looked pretty bland and unfinished, especially the animations and sound effects. How is the game now?
I have tried JA2, but i couldn't really get behind the clunky interface. I didn't really get beyond the first mission, so i don't think i have enough experience with JA2 to really compare it to xenonauts.
That being said, the graphics do have improved over the last year, so maybe you would like to give it another look.
Here's a video of the most recent stable build

 

MrBaskerville

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I always thought that Xenonauts felt like a more unnappealing copy of the original, so i prefer XCom because it offers somehing different. The artstyle (I dislike the aliens designs, too predictable and generic) is a bit bland, it's chok full of bugs and the base building aspect is kinda confusing and illogical, but i like the gameplay and i think it offers something that differs enough from the original to justify its existence. I haven't had much reason to play Xenonauts because it looks and sounds shit compared to the original (Too grey and boring with unimaginative alien designs) and it doesn't really offer me that much new stuff, so i prefer to just return to the original instead.
 

Pink Gregory

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MrBaskerville said:
I always thought that Xenonauts felt like a more unnappealing copy of the original, so i prefer XCom because it offers somehing different. The artstyle (I dislike the aliens designs, too predictable and generic) is a bit bland, it's chok full of bugs and the base building aspect is kinda confusing and illogical, but i like the gameplay and i think it offers something that differs enough from the original to justify its existence. I haven't had much reason to play Xenonauts because it looks and sounds shit compared to the original (Too grey and boring with unimaginative alien designs) and it doesn't really offer me that much new stuff, so i prefer to just return to the original instead.
Do you use, perhaps, openXcom or the UFO extender to fix (at least) the difficulty bug?

Because that might improve your experience if you have a problem with bugs (though I can't really vouch for the total truth that they fix them).

If OP could clarify, is Xenonauts still early-access?