You people are insane....(Yet another rape thread)

[SpectacularWebHead]

Ugh, society has forced me into making a thread about rape, through stupid opinions and idiotic conclusions. Without further ado, lets cast the shit out of some aspersions; RE: Victims have themselves to blame and defending rapists.

1: Being the victim of Rape because of your own stupidity does not take responsibility from those who did it.

One of the moronic things about these threads is the number of people who latch onto the idea of "The victim attended a party with alcohol. If she/he didn't want to get raped, she/he shouldn't have gone somewhere where she/he was likely to get raped." This is stupid. Plain and simple. Just because you go somewhere you COULD be raped, that does not equal that you SHOULD be raped. Nor does it equal that those who do the raping are less responsible due to your dipshittery. This is a given really, amazingly it's something that always pops up.

2: Being dressed like a slut/Man-whore does not entitle people to Rape.

Again, pops up a lot, not sure why. Legally, you are entitled to dress however you want. If your overall goal is getting raped, then my point is thus moot. However, most people who dress revealingly are doing it for... Fuck knows why, But I'm fairly sure they aren't attempting to get raped. Dressing provocatively does not put the victim at fault in any way. It makes them a dipshit for several other reasons, but it is not an excuse.

3: Rights for Rapists
Look, when this pops up, it is a little bit depressing. When we try and say that people commiting these crimes are some how "Not to blame" or "Accidental" (Pops up more than you'd expect/ want) It's a little ridiculous. These people have commited a serious crime. They are to blame one hundred percent. You cannot accidentally rape someone in the way a murder can happen accidentaly. You cannot be provoked into rape as you can with assault or murder. There is NO possibility of a rapist having done it unintentionally, not meant for it to happen, made a mistake etc. They do it because it is in their nature. Whether this is an excuse or not I cannot comment, but it takes a very sick person to gain sexual thrill over the feeling of a non-consensual partnership. When a crime like this is taken, certain liberties afforded to other criminals and victims of crime should be revoked, due to this simple fact: Rape cannot and happen accidentally.

I expect some form of backlash from some of you.
To you, I say:

And hope to god this fad ends soon...

 

[Jedoro]

Society didn't force you to make anything, you decided to because of those "stupid opinions and idiotic conclusions."

Also, if one's goal of provocative dress is to get raped, is it really rape?

EDIT: /sarcasm

 

[ShadowsofHope]

I hardly think many people are going to come to this thread for sake of knowing that someone is going to call them a "rape apologist" for not following the mob mentality approach to justice from certain individuals whom dream of the public gallows for every criminal they find detestable, and would rather have a civil court objectively sentence the man/woman like a rational 21st century citizen.

Most of your points are emotional strawmen at that. One does not apologize for rapists by advocating adherence to established law in our courts until such laws are otherwise changed. Not even rape victims are above the law.

 

[Hoplon]

Society didn't force you to make anything, you decided to because of those "stupid opinions and idiotic conclusions."

Also, if one's goal of provocative dress is to get raped, is it really rape?

I don't even...

HELP ME SPIDERMAN!

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

3: Rights for Rapists
Look, when this pops up, it is a little bit depressing. When we try and say that people commiting these crimes are some how "Not to blame" or "Accidental" (Pops up more than you'd expect/ want) It's a little ridiculous. These people have commited a serious crime. They are to blame one hundred percent. You cannot accidentally rape someone in the way a murder can happen accidentaly. You cannot be provoked into rape as you can with assault or murder. There is NO possibility of a rapist having done it unintentionally, not meant for it to happen, made a mistake etc. They do it because it is in their nature. Whether this is an excuse or not I cannot comment, but it takes a very sick person to gain sexual thrill over the feeling of a non-consensual partnership. When a crime like this is taken, certain liberties afforded to other criminals and victims of crime should be revoked, due to this simple fact: Rape cannot and happen accidentally.

Your first two appear to be some kind of strawman that I have no intention of dealing with, but this is just wrong, and I am anything but a rape apologist. There are types of non-consensual sex that I would still definitely classify as rape (I classify all types of non-consensual sex as rape obviously) but I would not classify as intentional. You can rape someone while thinking that they were consenting. People do not just scream "I do not consent!" at all times that they are legally incapable of giving consent so (specifically minors, the high, and the drunk). Still rape, but obviously not intentional and deserving a lesser charge, a rape equivalent to manslaughter if you will.

The other stuff I'll let others deal with. I am not the type to tear up strawman arguments, but there are many people here who are.

 

[Jonluw]

I think if you took the time to actually read what people write, you would find that noone is saying what you're trying to present as their opinions here.
Either that, or you're purposefully misrepresenting people's stances so that you have a strawman to attack from your high horse to make yourself feel better.

When people are saying someone was stupid for wearing "those kinds of clothes in that kind of environment", they're saying just that. They're not saying the rapist is any less to blame; they're just saying the victim was an idiot.
This is a completely reasonable thing to say. If you walk around the bad part of town fanning yourself with 20 dollar bills, you're a moron. The guy who robs you is still a criminal, but you're an utter dimwit for putting yourself in that situation.

And criminals have rights. Mass murderers, even, have rights.
They're called rights for a reason. They're not privilieges. Breaking a rapist's rights is the same as breaking anyone else's rights.
And yes, rapists can actually do so unintentionally. Not everyone's aware that the person they're having sex with isn't consenting. It's rare, but it does happen. Doesn't make what they're doing right or legal, but it certainly makes it better than if it was done with malice.

 

[LetalisK]

3: Rights for Rapists
Look, when this pops up, it is a little bit depressing. When we try and say that people commiting these crimes are some how "Not to blame" or "Accidental" (Pops up more than you'd expect/ want) It's a little ridiculous. These people have commited a serious crime. They are to blame one hundred percent. You cannot accidentally rape someone in the way a murder can happen accidentaly. You cannot be provoked into rape as you can with assault or murder. There is NO possibility of a rapist having done it unintentionally, not meant for it to happen, made a mistake etc. They do it because it is in their nature. Whether this is an excuse or not I cannot comment, but it takes a very sick person to gain sexual thrill over the feeling of a non-consensual partnership. When a crime like this is taken, certain liberties afforded to other criminals and victims of crime should be revoked, due to this simple fact: Rape cannot and happen accidentally.

Not every rapist is some slavering monster plotting and waiting in the shadows for their next unsuspecting victim. Some of them are just...fucking stupid. Add alcohol into the mix and some end up doing things they never intended to do or even thought they were doing at the time. "Wait, what? I thought she was totally into it..." Hence why it's especially critical for them to know they need to get explicit consent.

Not that this excuses them in any way. Just sayin'.

 

[Keoul]

Okay let's get this train wreck a rolling!

1: Being the victim of Rape because of your own stupidity does not take responsibility from those who did it.
2: Being dressed like a slut/Man-whore does not entitle people to Rape.

These two points are essentially the same thing so I'll address them together. First off I'd like to agree that rape is a terrible thing that's undeniably wrong, the problem is that's my opinion and no body cares about my opinion they want facts and figures in accordance to the law.
Think of this, if something terrible could be prevented, why would you not take every precaution you could take? If I go out to the beach I know I'd get sunburned so I take precautions and bring a hat and sunscreen. If they didn't want rape to ever occur to them then they could have simply covered up or not get drunk, it's very simple precautions that they decided to ignored.
Now about "Being raped due to your own stupidity does not take responsibility from those who did it". You are absolutely right, but does that mean the victim takes no responsibility for their actions? Could any girl theoretically dress up as a slut, get raped then sue for millions just like that? free cash forever? we have to look at each case from both sides not immediately damn the offender.

However, most people who dress revealingly are doing it for... Fuck knows why, But I'm fairly sure they aren't attempting to get raped.

They dress like that to pickup chicks/dudes and get laid, also for attention. I see no other reason since it doesn't protect you from the weather or feel comfortable.

I expect some form of backlash from some of you.
To you, I say: comeatmebro.jpg
And hope to god this fad ends soon...

-facepalm- Really? was this necessary? did you really think the community was going to scream "OMFG RAPE IS OKAY WHATS WRONG WITH YOU?!?!" why would you get any backlash at all -.- maybe you need to look at some motivational posters or something, boost some faith in humanity.

 

[Nantucket_v1legacy]

There is no excuse for rape and nobody deserves to be raped.
So you may dress like a slapper? You may tease the opposite sex? End of the day if the woman (sorry, or man) does not want it - YOU DO NOT GO THERE. If the person is unconscious or clearly of their face you do not take advantage. Said person is a dumbass for getting in that state at a strange party but not dumb enough to become a 'Were so asking for it' victim.

I think it is extremely sad that some people are defending these monsters. Statistics can go to hell. Rape is worse than murder because you live with that horror and it affects your normal everyday life. When you're dead you're dead - you're not haunted and suspicious.

 

[Thaluikhain]

It's depressing that the OP is somehow controversial.

we have to look at each case from both sides not immediately damn the offender.

No, we really, really have to damn the offender.

 

[shrekfan246]

I would like to see a specific post on this website where somebody typed out the words "Well, she was asking for it! She shouldn't have been dressed like that!"

If you can't provide that simple request for me, then my only response is that gif.

 

[Fappy]

So many rape threads! My brain is overloading! Can't---- GAH!

Also, this seems somewhat relevant to the topic and is very recent.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-16-2012/louis-c-k-?xrs=share_copy

EDIT: I heard some people in the UK had trouble viewing. Might be able to find it manually on Comedy Central's UK site... which I assume they have. Is CC international?... well, whatever.

 

[Phasmal]

However, most people who dress revealingly are doing it for... Fuck knows why, But I'm fairly sure they aren't attempting to get raped.

They dress like that to pickup chicks/dudes and get laid, also for attention. I see no other reason since it doesn't protect you from the weather or feel comfortable.

How about to make yourself feel good?
Because you think it looks nice?
Because it follows curret fashion?
Because you might want to look special that night?

Jesus, it's not hard.
I remember it being the general consenus of other women that ladies dress more for other ladies than for dudes.

OT: Forum's creepy obsession with rape aside, no item of clothing gives you the right to put your hands on another person without their permission. End of. Maybe that's the message we should put out more- less `don't go anywhere you could possibly be raped, don't wear this, don't do this`.

 

[bobmus]

As shrekfan said, this appears to be a reactionary thread to... well nothing. No-one but the most extreme of people would have any disagreement with what you just said.

Maybe you need to look at some motivational posters or something, boost some faith in humanity.

I google imaged 'motivational'.

I feel demotivated and also a little bit sick.

OP, do not follow this advice.

 

[Zoe Castillo]

--

 

[shrekfan246]

Spoiler

I would like to see a specific post on this website where somebody typed out the words "Well, she was asking for it! She shouldn't have been dressed like that!"

If you can't provide that simple request for me, then my only response is that gif.

Methinks this is the type of quote he had in mind

snip

Granted, not verbatim what you asked for, but the sentiment is the same. Victim is obviously at fault in this poster's mind.

... if you'll pardon the overuse of this...

Spoiler: It's the only thing I can respond with.

I have no words... how is sexual assault equatable to standing in the front row of a comedy show? How is "You shouldn't put yourself in that environment if you don't expect drugs, sex, and alcohol" an argument at all? How... I just... my head hurts.

 

[Lionsfan]

You know, whenever somebody starts off their thread with something like "I didn't want to make this thread but..." I know we're off to a bad start. Because almost all the time the thread just screams "My opinions MUST be heard by everybody because they're RIGHT and ORIGINAL too!" And then they launch into a bunch of strawman arguments that easily could have gone into the other corresponding thread

 

[viranimus]

Spoiler

I would like to see a specific post on this website where somebody typed out the words "Well, she was asking for it! She shouldn't have been dressed like that!"

If you can't provide that simple request for me, then my only response is that gif.

Methinks this is the type of quote he had in mind

Spoiler

Ok, let me see if I'm understanding you. She had it coming? She went to a party to have fun and over did it. And because she passed out she should have expected to be raped or molested because that's what guys at parties do. Wow. And the sentence was light because of that? Are you serious? That's ridiculous! And then you say she's whining becasue she didnt get what she wanted? Yeah I think it's a little more than that.

No, your not. Because your inferring your own meaning from my words. Yes she has a hand of responsibility in this. But the reason the sentence is lighter is because they are still minors.

But yes she absolutely IS whining about not getting her way. She even said so.

"I'm at the point, that if I have to go to jail for my rights, I will do it. If they really feel it's necessary to throw me in jail for talking about what happened to me as opposed to throwing these boys in jail for what they did to me, then I don't understand justice"

There it is. She is clearly saying "I dont care what the courts, attys or even my parents agreed to. I dont like it, and I am going to do whatever I want about it."

Your trying to portray this girl as being devoid of responsibility for her actions. Why? Because shes a girl? That would be sexist as hell.

Because she is too young to know better? Considering that this girl was invariably exposed to drinking and partying likely starting around age 12 even if it wasnt herself, it was her friends telling her all about it . She had easily been exposed to what goes on at parties with alcohol for right about 5 years. She knew what risk she was running.

She knew the risks and possibilities of what might occur.

Given she was 17, had she gotten behind the wheel of a car and drove home in that condition? What if she someone had slammed into her killing them instantly. Even if it was clearly the other drivers fault. Even if she drove flawlessly. Would driving under the influence just be excused? Thats the problem of why she or MEs in general dont understand justice and why this is even a conversation at all. She took an action that put herself and potentially others at risk.

So are we really painting the image that this was a good ole country girl who had never been to a party with booze and teens screwing each other senseless, who goes to this party alone, gets quickly overwhelmed by her lack of tolerance and passes out and two horny guys just happen to find her passed out and start bending her around like a ragdoll? The likelihood of that is practically nonexistent. Yet we can never truly know what actually lead up to those events because any accounts from this event would be drenched in alcohol and likely other drugs.


So yes, she bears a bulk of the burden of responsibility because she put herself in that environment "to have fun"

You dont sit in the front row of a Gallagher show and expect to not come home covered in crushed fruit and other misc. crushable items. So too should you not go to a teenage highschool party and not be exposed to alcohol, drugs and kids fornicating.

Granted, not verbatim what you asked for, but the sentiment is the same. Victim is obviously at fault in this poster's mind.

No the sentiment most certainly is not there. You are incorrect and it is a failure of your comprehension. I was not involved in this thread nor is my views on the other thread relevant in this thread because its not even talking about the same thing.

If you dont understand what I said, how about not quoting me and taking me out of context as it relates to a completely different thread I was never involved in.

I never said she was asking for it. I said she bears part of the responsibility for her actions because she willingly went to a party where drugs/alcohol/sex were to be at. She got no "support" from her friends as she was drinking. she got herself drunk to the point of passing out. She made concsicous decisions that she bears responsibility for because this could have been avoided with actions on her part just as much as actions on the boys part.


Dont put words in my mouth. I have more than enough of my own.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Ouch, my brain

What?

Why should people bare responsibility for not breaking the law.

Goddamn, victim blaming is right up there on my list of fallacies that make my brain hurt.

 

[viranimus]

Come off of it now. If were doing this and merge the other thread with this one Lets first dispose of the bullshit notion that this is some innocent naive little ole country girl who never did nuffin wrong in her life. That is not the girl in this story.

Lets then focus on the fact her legal guardians APPROVED of this agreement. Why? Because they knew their sweet innocent little angel is actually a drunken party girl and she pushed her luck too far and ended up paying for it. They KNEW they could not get a conviction. They KNEW there was no actual evidence and all witness testimony would be unreliable as being under the influence. they KNEW that if people started looking for evidence they would find more damning material on their daughter than the two boys who have been sentenced and are paying for their crime.


So, yeah if it hurts that much lets go ahead and release the two boys if they were under the influence at all because you know they didnt know what they were doing and shouldn't expect to be out of control just from drinking alcohol and doing drugs. Thats literally the logic being conveyed here.

Im not back peddling. There is an oceans worth of difference between a classic case of rape with evidence supporting the claim.... and the word of a drunken party girl who passed out and got groped and had not a problem in the world with it until the pictures surfaced. Its not related beause your using an argument built for a very specific case to try to justify what your saying for a wide berth of unrelated things.

At no time am I villainizing the victim. I am not defending rapists and you cannot show that I am defending rape. Only words you have miscontrued to mean support of rape.

Again you failed to understand me, Dont put the words you want to hear in my mouth.