You people are ridiculous

[Your once and future Fanboy]

I will mostly defend Bioware here. I think it's annoying to have to download a character for a heavily story-driven game, but until I know how important/relevant the character is to the game and the overall story I won't complain.
In Mass Effect 2 we had Zaeed or Kasumi as DLC characters, and while they had some extra missions and equipment that where fun, their overall importance where minimal at best.

So I think we have nothing to ***** about (for now). If you want something to ***** about, start complaining that the ending to FF 13-2 is DLC.

 

[Mr Companion]

Massive Quote

Ah ok that's fair enough. I only assumed he would be important because I can't imagine introducing a member of that species nonchalantly or without consequence. I mean you would think being able to directly communicate with a live Prothean could give you all sorts of Intel on the reapers making it massively sought after by both sides and only Shepherd would be able to communicate with it ect. Its almost a shame it wasn't something bigger from a plot perspective, and it will be even more disappointing for fans who bought the DLC intending to have sex with it when they realize they can't
.....
.....
Please say you cant.

 

[DjinnFor]

YOU DON'T NEED A PH.D IN GRAPHICAL DESIGN TO DETERMINE THAT SOMETHING'S FUCKED UP WHEN YOU SEE THAT!

My god. You must adore playing broken games. Shit like that? The fucking janitors could have found that bug and forwarded it on to the programmers.

And the fucking janitors need to be cleaning the god damn building, not sitting on their asses playing games. What's your point?

You do NOT need to be an expert to detect these bugs and forward them on to the programmers. You just have to have two working eyeballs and attempt to play the game. All the ones I listed are in very commonly accessed areas of the games in which they occur, as well. It's not like some obscure glitch in the farthest fringes of the game map.

Oh, I think I get it. You think that publishers don't already have a team of hundreds of minimum wage teens to playtest their game for the four months before release. Apparently you think that the process of finding and then subsequently fixing bugs is a simple process of throwing enough people at it and that publishers aren't doing enough. Apparently, you've no clue how the real world works.

Anyone who isn't skilled to fix the bugs should be playing the game and trying to break it.

Anyone, eh? You have a very jaded and naive view of the business world if you think that just anyone can be spared to sit on their asses for four months. It's not about who can do it, its about who's time is best spent doing it. There's a reason why lawyers hire secretaries and game developers hire testers.

Honestly? I'd rather take a game that functions but lacks DLC entirely over a broken pile of ass that's got DLC.

Great then, you got what you wanted with pretty much every game that's ever come out in the past decade. Why are you complaining again?

 

[Atmos Duality]

I just dont see why the fuck they cant just release the game with the shit already on it, and just raise the price.

its not hard, just make a date when your ready, but obviously taking idiots money is more important to them so theyll throw and unfinished game out the window with the weapons and characters as dlc.

its jsut stupid to me, but I dont care, never bought mass effect 3.

That is what they did... the dlc was stored on the disc. Same outcome, but storing on the disc is a more blatant cocking

You know why they don't just jack up the price for the actual Full Game? Marketing.
They're manipulating consumer perception to create an appearance of value that isn't really there.

The *actual cost* of the full game is much more than what consumers THINK they're paying for it, and (initially at least) they only realize how much they're missing when EA crams the DLC page in their face and goes "PAY UP, SUCKA!".

Of course, I like to think that most of us here on the forums were a little more informed, and knew this was going to happen in advance.

As for the whole "You pay for extra to get extra". The problem lies in what is defined as "extra", and if EA is actually paying extra to create that content, relative to what it costs.
There are a number of ways to address this issue, but most of them will end in the usual rage-induced hyperbole, cute pictures that omit critical details, or other argumentation that relies on purely circumstantial evidence (we don't know what contract Bioware and EA have; is Bioware being paid to do that in overtime? Do they get paid for the DLC post launch? These issues matter if you're arguing "extra" from a development cost angle).

The only way we can truly address the problem is by voting with our wallets.

See, even if the trend is to skew the value of games more and more in favor of the publisher (which it does by economics. I already addressed why on page 2), the topic still remains entirely subjective. This doesn't mean we should just ignore the trend and accept it though, as some around here are implying, but we definitely shouldn't be screaming at each other through our keyboards.

Ultimately, the question becomes "Is this DLC worth the money?" or even "Is this BUSINESS MODEL worth supporting" if if you're concerned more with principle. It doesn't matter; they both have the same answers.

Honestly, the topic has been addressed, the original argument debunked several times already without any definitive logical retort. It'd be best to close this farce down and get the hating done with already.

 

[Joccaren]

Ah ok that's fair enough. I only assumed he would be important because I can't imagine introducing a member of that species nonchalantly or without consequence. I mean you would think being able to directly communicate with a live Prothean could give you all sorts of Intel on the reapers making it massively sought after by both sides and only Shepherd would be able to communicate with it ect. Its almost a shame it wasn't something bigger from a plot perspective, and it will be even more disappointing for fans who bought the DLC intending to have sex with it when they realize they can't
.....
.....
Please say you cant.

Yeah, its the assumption a lot of people made. Super Important Race = Super important character. Straight from the start he tells you you that he cannot help with the Crucible - He was a warrior, not a scientist. It would have been a good opportunity to introduce extra information on the Crucible, if a bit cliched and that, but as is he provides some interesting insights to Prothean culture and that's about it.
And no, thankfully you can't. Tali gets drunk at one point and messages him over the ship that she thinks he really likes Liara, despite constantly acting cold and rude to her. Thankfully I don't believe that's pursued any further.

 

[Adultism]

Once again, You bought content, the game is not yours you paid for the right to play it. They can do whatever they want with it it is THEIR game. Not yours.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Oh you Yanks, eating at such horrible restaurants. I say boycott the cheese, that will work right?

I told you, it was a moment of weakness. Normally I wouldn't be caught dead in one of those places (unless I ate my food in it [/nervous chuckle]).

...what kind of McDonalds are you going to that doesn't have the burgers come with cheese?

Spoiler: this is what I get when I go there

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Don't care about Day 1 DLC, never did. Got bigger fish to fry, Have you SEEN that ending?

 

[dietpeachsnapple]

Per your models, I can see why Day 1 DLC exists. I would maintain, however, that it shouldn't.

It is content ready for release, on release day. I will not say, however, that it should be free. We, the customers, should be charged something both worth the time and effort of the production teams, AND monetarily reasonable for a person who doesn't want to refinance their home.

I wouldn't mind seeing $20 games that showed the customers the core of the product (say the game engine, the characters, a bit of world to explore the controls, and a few hours of mission), The first DLC for some real meat of the game is already in production at release, and is sold for $10-$20. By the time that is released, you can see if your game is being well received. I have only been charged $30-$40, I know if I want to buy more of this game, and the game company has a purchase from someone who would have, otherwise, waited 5 years allowing the game's price to go down.

 

[Chemical Alia]

DLC ready with the launch of a game could also be explained with additional factors, as well. Risk management, for example. It's not uncommon for features to be cut from the game's main development for schedule reasons, memory constraints, etc. It could still be cool content and something the developers want to deliver, so that is sometimes also worked on on the side and added with DLC, but isn't risking the game's major milestones/requiring as many resources.

Another thing relating to the development cycle itself is that employees in different disciples are needed more or less in different capacities during the course of development. When art production is winding down towards the end of a project, for example, the company may not just want to lay off all of those people who now have less work, but to roll them right onto DLC projects to keep the flow of production going and making sure people still have jobs to do.

I don't think it should be a decision made solely on financial factors, as the relationship and trust a studio has with its community is an important thing too. But there are a lot of factors that go into producing a game that I think the casual consumer doesn't usually consider in his/her arguments.

 

[NotSoLoneWanderer]

Charging extra for cheese...you could buy another burger for that plus change.

 

[Deadyawn]

Just because it makes sense doesn't mean I have to like it. Because I don't. I don't like the feeling of missing out on a part of a game I'm playing but I also don't like having to pay an extra 10 dollars to feel as if I'm getting the "complete" experience.
Frankly, that translates to regular DLC as well. And the fact that the DLC is available from day 1 just exacerbates it. It's released along side the game so its not really a tacked on afterthought and in many cases its on the disk. It just seems like they could have put it all in the game. Which would be awesome. But it isn't and its not.
To be clear, I'm not demanding that publishers give me more stuff. I'm just saying it would be nice.

 

[UberNoodle]

Most of the analogies are stupid, yours included. If you wanted to make one that even remotely came close you could have used DVD's or Music CD's:

1: A music CD has fifteen songs on it. The retailer is charging full price (meaning, the same price as another cd with 15 songs on average) for 10 of those songs, but says: For another $5 you can unlock these 'bonus' tracks.

2: A standard edition of a movie is released on DVD. The commentary track is recorded and already on the disc. Etcetera.

No. You're not getting the facts right.

1) If a band went into the studio to record 15 tracks, they'd work with their manager, equipment suppliers, engineers and the studio to ascertain a budget. From that they'd work out just how reasonable it would be to record those 15 songs at the quality and complexity they want. The track listing gets reduced to 10, high quality tracks. The remaining tracks are cannibalised for salvageable parts, even combined. Some are frankly, in hindsight not as good as the short list of 10.

HOWEVER, the band's official cover group are given a budget to produce and record those tracks alongside the album, which is being recorded by the real band. The album is released under the band's monicker and so to is the EP by the cover band. Fans are divided, but many agree that if it weren't for the extra contract and budget granted to the cover band, those songs would probably never have seen the light of day.

2) A movie eventually completes its long and expensive production, is mastered, sent out to theatres and almost immediately, work begins on its home video release. Cover art is done while a new 'print' is made from the master. The director wants to reinstate some elements which were not in the theatrical release and luckily it's within budget. He's about to head home when a suit comes up with the great idea for a feature length commentary. Well, there's no money for that, and the director, leads, editor and crew have other projects. The suit agrees to pay handsomely for the recording and it is made. Yet, should the DVD be sold at the same price back when there was no commentary in the budget? And so on ...

And, you talk about DLC already on the disc, but From Ashges was not. Some elements were because the development was parallel and for ease of integration, some sharing was needed.

 

[Terrara]

You know what I find funny? For the last two weeks (at least) Mass Effect/ EA connected discussions have been steadily occupying the most viewed sections of the forums. You are welcome for additional advertisement, EA!

On topic: If people can actually get additional payement for working, I'm all for it. Otherwise, all those artists/modelers would just be left without income for however long it took to fix the main game. It also means that you are good at your job if you manage to complete the basic models and animations while making the main game and record additional dialogues without calling on actors at completely separate times. I think it's called effective use of everyone's time... My only problem is that they just threw in a prothean as a side character but well.