Your opinion on Spawn-Trapping + Spawn Camping

[Nazulu]

There is always going to be people who exploit these things, ALWAYS! The developers should know this so I say it's their fault for making it possible.

It's pretty fun though, ruining the game for everyone else, you get a good laugh out of it.

 

[MurderousToaster]

I'm familiar with the word as an excuse that scrubs use for being bad at a game.

Are you familiar with the word "scrub"? Because scrubs are 99% of the reason I don't play on public servers.

So you're a dick. OK. Just wanted to make that clear. Like that other poster said, if you could open up the console, type "kill [player]", and have it work, would you? Single-player FTW. AI cheating is at least predictable.

Ooh, resorting to the good old ad hominem, I see. Very classy.

Read <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.170491.4655960>this post, please.

Would it be too much to ask for you to take your personal flamewar into PMs? It's basically turned into you calling him a 'scrub', him calling you a 'cheeser' etc, and, personally, I don't think that it's contributing to discussion.

 

[Malkavian]

Please pardon this "lol hes not hardcoar, noob" question but what's spawn-camping? Is that similar to playing Goldeneye64 and having one of the players put proximity mines in all the respawn locations?

sOrt of, yes. It's the act of locating the place where the opponents spawn, and camp in a location so enemies can be shot the instant they spawn.

I hate spawncamping. While I agree that it wouldn't be so bad if people could coordinate and push them back(in fact, that'd make the game awesome... A team effort to beat back the harder odds), but as I play mainly on the consoles, it's a *****. Not everyone have mics, and those that do, usually use them for idiotic comments, or to boradcast to everyone what shitty music they are listening to. There is very little team coordinating on the consoles, since it's just not possible, so when you have to do something "complex" against something "basic" (breaking out of a spawncamp situation), you only have yourself to rely on, unless you luck out and hivemind.

I've never neen much of a pc-player, but I've been playing some Killing Floor lately, and seen a huge difference in the communication ingame... I think I wouldn't be far off if I said that pc-players are the better type to communicate with, and I say that as a mainly console gamer.

 

[Kurokami]

There's nothing wrong with spawn camping.

There's a lot wrong with games where spawn camping is an unbeatable tactic, there's a lot wrong with players who can only win by spawn camping, and there's a lot wrong with players who simply suck too much at the game to overcome spawn camping. But there is nothing wrong with spawn camping itself.

You managed to state your answer but you have to show your working too.

Eh, what? You mean explain the reasoning behind my answer?

My reason is that spawn camping is a viable strategy, and that any rule against spawn camping is neither warranted nor enforcable. People who whine about spawn camping are usually just bad players who can't think of a way to beat the spawncamper. If there really is no way to beat spawncampers, you're just playing a badly designed game and should blame the developers, not the guy who uses a winning tactic.

In short: Hate the game, not the player.

Oh, but I do so hate the players, don't get me wrong I also hate the develepers but I don't see this as a legitimate strategy, you're saying its only bad players that can't get out? Its only bad players that can't keep their damn crossheirs fixed on a target that's unfortunate enough to have his back turned against you. I don't take particular offense against your point of view as this is the reason I often don't bother with FPS', because the aim isn't to play the game so much as it is to win it. By your logic if everyone had the ability to simply type kill in console and have it work it would be perfectly legitimate and instead of saying that its a stupid approach to the game we should call the developers and force them to have an epipheny instructing them to stop making shitty and generic games.

Also, I thought the maths reference was pretty simple.

endofhorriblerant

Eh, it's not a horrible rant. I don't mind you having an opinion. I just disagree with you and, while I certainly see your point, I don't think it's an entirely valid one. If there was a game where typing "kill player" would let you win, you'd blame it on the players? Who were the ones who put the function in the game to begin with? I would never play such a horrible game, and I honestly don't see why anyone would.

Also, the reason I missed he reference is mostly because English isn't my native tongue, and while I'm reasonably proficient at conversational English, catchin math references in a foreign language is a bit above my level.

Anyway, to explain my point of view a bit better: For the sake of example, let's break the spawn camp 'abuse' situation down in two parts: One part is whether or not the tactic used is unbeatable, and the other is whether or not the player using the tactic is doing so because it's the only way he can win.

Situation one: The tactic is unbeatable, and using it is the only way the 'cheap' player can win.
In this situation, there's a clear flaw in the game's setup that allows one tactic to beat all other possible tactics. This is clearly the fault of the developer, since they allowed the game to get unbalanced. The player using the tactic is playing to win, but he isn't particularly skilled: If it wasn't for that one tactic, you'd be able to beat him. But if you really are able to beat him, why aren't you able to beat him at his own game? Apparently, he's just better than you, either because you simply suck or because you refuse to use a winning strategy. Either way, the developers are the bad guys and the 'cheap' player deserves the win for doing what is necessary to get that win. If you can't stomach the idea that one tactic beats all (and honestly, that's a perfectly normal thing: I wouldn't either), you simply shouldn't be playing such a shitty game.

Situation two: The tactic is unbeatable, and the 'cheap' player can win any way he wants to.
In this case, the player is simply better than you. Whether or not he uses the unbeatable tactic, he'll still beat you. The most likely reason he uses the tactic is either because he doesn't know you suck, or he just wants you prevent you from doing the same thing yourself and land him in the losing position of situation one. Again, the developers fucked up and the 'cheap' player deserves the win.

Situation three: The tactic is not unbeatable, but it's still the only way the 'cheap' player can win.
In this case, the fault is entirely yours. If the tactic can be beaten and the other player is worse than you when not using that tactic, then you should be wiping the floor with the scrub. If you keep getting killed over and over again by a player who's less skilled than you, you should either learn to beat his tactic, or start wondering whether you really are good enough to beat him normally.

Situation four: The tactic is not unbeatable, and the 'cheap' player can win any way he wants to.
In this case you're just fucked. It doesn't matter why the opponent chooses to use the 'cheap' tactic, because he'll beat you any way you play. In this situation there really isn't any fault to speak of, other than that you're just not skilled enough. And if you start whining because the other guy was simply better than you, you've really reached rock bottom, and probably shouldn't play online games anymore.

English isn't my native tongue either, having learned maths in an english speaking language however and having the whole 'have to show working' ordeal yelled at me more times than I can remember I may have assumed it obvious for all. In any case it wasn't meant as an insult, but I do often use references and metaphors in my comments, in comparisson I thought maths would be the same in all languages really, what I forgot to take into account was that not everyone was so incessive about sticking mainly to answer [as I have been]. In any case I appologize if it seemed like condescension.

I'll skip back onto topic now.

My point about the kill game wasn't to say that its only players who are at fault, of course its the developers but I wouldn't trust them to make me a cheese sandwich (granted I hate cheese, but the word was stuck in my mind), imagine the game was perfect in every single way, but it had that kill option (its pretty impossible for me to imagine a perfect FPS, huh) and instead of playing the game properly people just employed that feature to win, it requires no real strategy (though its occured to me that when we speak about spawn camping, we may be picturing different scenarios, as in my mind its a simple 'I'm sitting here pointing exactly where the persons gonna spawn, killing him within the second and he'll be respawning within the next 3) and ends up taking away from the 'game' aspect of the game. This is simply how I see spawn camping. I won't disagree that getting to the point of spawn camping may take a small feat of skill, but spawn camping itself is hardly something I'd call a strategy, that's all.

The games as you describe it seem based only on the spawn camping aspect of it, as if there's nothing else at play, and if that were the case than I'd hardly imagine anyone to play it. But there is more, even for shitty games. I always find the ones who spawn camp to be stat whores (the term's not meant to be offensive). Having played Savage I can tell you whenever the game starts to go downhill for a team, most players (and most of those belonging to clans) will straight away ditch the team and not even try to fight back, the simple reason being they'll die more than they'll kill because at that point its not so much a question of skill as it is technology, even then it isn't impossible. Hell, I've had games where I held them off for a good 20 minutes with 4 other players, I've had others where I wasn't ditched straight away and we actually managed to push them back.

When I play a game its to play the game, yes winning is nice, but if that's all I wanted I'd go play russian roulette with myself and fill all the chambers up with dynamite.

(hope I didn't lose track of my argument, I'll be checking it again when off work, =])

 

[chozo_hybrid]

I hate it. It is cheap. They have no time to defend themselves or get orientated.
It's fine if it is just one kill, if a guy spawns in front of you while you are moving through the area to somewhere else, but sitting in a spawn point is cheap.

Agree completely, because the odd time it can't be helped.

 

[Kurokami]

It's the tactics of n00bs who want easy kills but don't wanna work for the fucking thing.

Spoiler: Heres what I say to you n00bs who are saying, But it's a tactical strategy!.

Hmmm... I'm sitting here trying to argue against Spawn Campers and to be honest, the reason I don't play many online games and say hell no to an X-box is because of players who think 'noob' is one of the worst insults ever and mispell it constantly for the hell of it.


...

Spoiler: No offense.

there, all covered =]

 

[BuyableDoor]

I just came from a 30 minute game in killzone 2 where my team was spawn trapped by a full 16 man opposing team. it was on radec academy. one way out was down a sewer, and up a ladder, and there were always 4 people shooting anyone who tried climbing up. the other dozen enemy players just sat in the room adjacent to our spawn, while one last of their team capped all objectives. just awful.

spawncamping is really a sad tactic for people who take videogames way more serious than they should.

 

[theultimateend]

Studies show that spawn campers rape children in their off time. They actually live lives following the simple principle "Score the easiest way you can find."

I'd argue with it but this is science people.

 

[Kurokami]

It's the tactics of n00bs who want easy kills but don't wanna work for the fucking thing.

Spoiler: Heres what I say to you n00bs who are saying, But it's a tactical strategy!.

Hmmm... I'm sitting here trying to argue against Spawn Campers and to be honest, the reason I don't play many online games and say hell no to an X-box is because of players who think 'noob' is one of the worst insults ever and mispell it constantly for the hell of it.


...

Spoiler: No offense.

there, all covered =]

Meh, i dont think noob is the worst insult, i DO think that "you Donkey raping, buttfucking, ass monkey!" is the worst insult anyone can give someone else. I'm SOOOO gonna get suspended for this

Huh... Something must be in the air, I've been flamed for much less and you come here with a reasonable (donkey raping and butt fucking monkeys aside) comment... Clearly I've missjudged. (as well as was trying to fish me a bit o' flame)

In any case I don't find that particularly offensive, it sounds more like some kind of comical beastiality love triangle.

 

[Ithae]

I rarely get spawn camped, and when I do, I kick their asses. 'Tis true.

 

[whycantibelinus]

It's a cheap tactic, but mostly the games fault for making it possible. In my opinion, that is.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[aPod]

Spawn camping happens, i have nothing against it. I do it, i have it done to me. It's all apart of the game. I play mostly FPS's online and its just something that happens all the time, wether or not in is your intention. Most FPS players dont have one thing i like to call patience.

Getting spawn camped happens for one reason. You and your team got your asses handed to you. Simple as that.

Calling it a cheap tactic is BS. It took work to corner a team, it took skill and coordination on your teams part to get them to into that state. Heres the thing though, if you change your tactics you can get out of being spawn camped... but for whatever reason most people are too stupid to change thier play style to one that will help thier team win.

Also i could care less if anyone has a problem with that. You're a gamer you should have realized by now that people will employ any tactic, and any exploit to give themselves an edge. If you want something to complain about i'd point it at modded controllers and lag-switchers. If anything everyone should ***** about lag because thats the real game breaker.

 

[MR T3D]

Totally legitimate tactic in games with balanced maps.
even GordanVanDyke @ DICE accepts it.

 

[oddball121]

thats a difficult one.

perfeclty legit on a well made and balanced map with two fairly well skilled and competent teams playing, considering the amount of skill and coordination it takes to trap a team in their spawn point in the first place.

However chuck in a team which cant coordinate and work together at all and as said before you get your ass handed to you in that situation.

What it boils down too is something that is fine in some situations but completely unacceptable in others. However it is very satisfieing when you can brake such a deadlock thus leading to a more memorable experience to brag about down pub later.

sorry for any bad spelling me no that good at english

 

[Ph0t0n1c Ph34r]

I just came from a 30 minute game in killzone 2 where my team was spawn trapped by a full 16 man opposing team. it was on radec academy. one way out was down a sewer, and up a ladder, and there were always 4 people shooting anyone who tried climbing up. the other dozen enemy players just sat in the room adjacent to our spawn, while one last of their team capped all objectives. just awful.

spawncamping is really a sad tactic for people who take videogames way more serious than they should.

With like 50 engineers with turrets and Tacticians placing spawns in your base? I've beenthere.

 

[Dizzy45]

It has its place in competitive semi-pro gaming so im told. However i dont play that stuff and when i decide to play a round of tf2 and it happens i die inside...

 

[EittilDratsab]

Spawn Camping is ok in games with a short respawn timer like MWII, or... something else. But I do not like spawn camping in my TF2. Especially with a 20 second respawn timer. It's extremely frustrating to spend a minute or so twiddling your thumbs.