Zack Snyder: The Force Awakens Killed More Civilians Than Man of Steel
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I don't see how this connects. The point of the Man of Steel criticism was that Supes was probably contributing to the deaths of the people he was supposed to be protecting. Not killing the people he was supposed to be killing.inu-kun said:
Really? Star Wars killed more civilians? Star Wars? War of Stars? Where wars are waged in space among STARS and planets where billions live?
Kind of mathematically inevitable don't you think, Zack?
Kind of mathematically inevitable don't you think, Zack?
Well this is a director which made a BvS movie inwhich Batman straight up murders people.....from what ive read. So i dont think he gets those characters all that much. Zack likes spectacle and he is good at it - not so much character stuff. In BvS trailer Superman flies Batman through a building.....kind makes the whole Superman does feel guilty for the MoS destruction abit stupid when he does the exact same thing again. Sorry i went off at a tangent. lol.
Comparing to unsimiliar movies is stupid - why not compare MoS to Schindler List. Better to compare it to The Avengers. But the thing is Superman always had that code, its part of his character and identity. Personally i get that he is a new Superman and he did save billions and save the world from destruction. I just think the Director sucked at getting across this fact and of having Superman gutted by the destruction caused in the fight and learning an important lesson.
Comparing to unsimiliar movies is stupid - why not compare MoS to Schindler List. Better to compare it to The Avengers. But the thing is Superman always had that code, its part of his character and identity. Personally i get that he is a new Superman and he did save billions and save the world from destruction. I just think the Director sucked at getting across this fact and of having Superman gutted by the destruction caused in the fight and learning an important lesson.
He should think or rather watched SW:TFA again-
Sure you saw a glimspe on what the civilian saw before they were vapourize by Starkiller but that's it, it was kinda quick and maybe painless for them (as Obi said, there was a scream and then silence). The civilians of Metropolis pretty much ran in terror trying not to be crush by debris!
It was simply the badguy firing a massive laser, not two godlike beings having a big brawl in the city.
Speaking of the lazer, there was no way the Resistance/ Rebel could had prevented it unless they were able to see into future. The battle of Metropolis could had been easily prevented or rather far less casualities if Superman had focus more on steering Zod away from the city.
The resistance/ Rebel had no reputation being a total saint unlike Superman other than being the goodguy and helping those in needs (well in the Rebels cartoon).
Sure you saw a glimspe on what the civilian saw before they were vapourize by Starkiller but that's it, it was kinda quick and maybe painless for them (as Obi said, there was a scream and then silence). The civilians of Metropolis pretty much ran in terror trying not to be crush by debris!
It was simply the badguy firing a massive laser, not two godlike beings having a big brawl in the city.
Speaking of the lazer, there was no way the Resistance/ Rebel could had prevented it unless they were able to see into future. The battle of Metropolis could had been easily prevented or rather far less casualities if Superman had focus more on steering Zod away from the city.
The resistance/ Rebel had no reputation being a total saint unlike Superman other than being the goodguy and helping those in needs (well in the Rebels cartoon).
I think a producer occasionally needs to take a newspaper, roll it up into a baton and wack Zack Snyder across the had every once and a while, just to keep him in check.
Wow he really missed the point on that one.
Audiences are generally ok when the bad guys kill people mate. It's when you're supposed ideal hero slaughters scores of people through negligence and doesn't seem to care that you've screwed up.
I'm guessing this is a tactic on his part. Trying to equate the character based criticisms with standard moral guardian "thing of the children" "it's too violent" criticisms. Oh well, he's going to very busy defending his work over the next few weeks anyway so maybe we should go easy on him for now.
Audiences are generally ok when the bad guys kill people mate. It's when you're supposed ideal hero slaughters scores of people through negligence and doesn't seem to care that you've screwed up.
I'm guessing this is a tactic on his part. Trying to equate the character based criticisms with standard moral guardian "thing of the children" "it's too violent" criticisms. Oh well, he's going to very busy defending his work over the next few weeks anyway so maybe we should go easy on him for now.
Not really. The First Order blows away Hosnian Prime using the actions of The Resistance as justification. They manage to take out the New Republic fleet in the process and level the playing field. In their twisted logic they justified their genocide, something that the Empire never did when they nuked alderaan unprovoked. If the First Order is Space ISIS they used the Starkiller as an excuse to point out how impotent the Republic was. Horrific, and twisted justifications.tzimize said:
That just solidified why I don't like Snyder. I always thought he was a bit of simpleton, but this pretty much proves it. He just likes sex, violence, and flashy fight scenes. Which is fine. But he should probably stop doing adeptations. He clearly doesn't get subtext or nuance. Watchmen pretty much proved that. When will DC take the hint and drop him? He's dragging their whole universe down.
Holy shit snyder is still defending this haha.
The reason people critiqued the collateral damage of man of steel so much is because it was suppose to be a movie about SUPER MAN. SUPER GOD DAMN MAN.
He's literally suppose to be the archetypical perfect day saving hero that never makes a mistake and saves everybody by default. And in man of steel he is constantly destroying everything near him while he fights and does most of said fighting in super duper crowded spaces. Super Man is Super Man because 99.9% of the time he is thinking about and focusing on everyone besides himself, every single thought, action and split second decision he makes should revolve around keeping everyone else as safe as possible.
In Man of Steel "superman" says fuck it to all of that, doesn't give a flying fuck at all about anyone and has a big dumb fight exclusively in the most crowded of crowded spaces and although it is never shown directly, logic dictates literal millions of people die because of this. Because of his stupidity and the movies stupidity.
God I hate man of steel so fucking much, and I'm not even a big comic person or massive super man fanboy, I just hate how illogically moronic so very much of that film is. It makes me so damn angry. Its like someone making a batman movie and he's literally just murdering everyone he goes near. Its a giant middle finger to everything the character is suppose to be about.
The reason people critiqued the collateral damage of man of steel so much is because it was suppose to be a movie about SUPER MAN. SUPER GOD DAMN MAN.
He's literally suppose to be the archetypical perfect day saving hero that never makes a mistake and saves everybody by default. And in man of steel he is constantly destroying everything near him while he fights and does most of said fighting in super duper crowded spaces. Super Man is Super Man because 99.9% of the time he is thinking about and focusing on everyone besides himself, every single thought, action and split second decision he makes should revolve around keeping everyone else as safe as possible.
In Man of Steel "superman" says fuck it to all of that, doesn't give a flying fuck at all about anyone and has a big dumb fight exclusively in the most crowded of crowded spaces and although it is never shown directly, logic dictates literal millions of people die because of this. Because of his stupidity and the movies stupidity.
God I hate man of steel so fucking much, and I'm not even a big comic person or massive super man fanboy, I just hate how illogically moronic so very much of that film is. It makes me so damn angry. Its like someone making a batman movie and he's literally just murdering everyone he goes near. Its a giant middle finger to everything the character is suppose to be about.
Nope, Zack, the fact that the villains in another movie had a higher body count than your movie's hero (who just happens to be The Boy Scout, otherwise known as Superman...) is not really a valid defence of your movie.
It *is* kinda a valid criticism of The Force Awakens though - for largely unrelated reasons to why Zack's bringing it up. Hands up - who really *felt* those deaths in TFA? Who felt anything at all for the billions of completely non-characterised people who died in that scene? At least with Alderaan in A New Hope, we could see Leia's despair at losing her family and friends. The planets that got blown up in TFA didn't even appear to have had names as far as the movie was concerned... (I'm sure there are names for them somewhere in the expanded materials or in the novelisation, but I'm judging the movie by itself here.)
It *is* kinda a valid criticism of The Force Awakens though - for largely unrelated reasons to why Zack's bringing it up. Hands up - who really *felt* those deaths in TFA? Who felt anything at all for the billions of completely non-characterised people who died in that scene? At least with Alderaan in A New Hope, we could see Leia's despair at losing her family and friends. The planets that got blown up in TFA didn't even appear to have had names as far as the movie was concerned... (I'm sure there are names for them somewhere in the expanded materials or in the novelisation, but I'm judging the movie by itself here.)
Its official. Zack Snyder understand Superman like Nintendo understands how to sell home consoles.
Guards! Bring me the paperwork I need to fill out to have him promoted to grade 43.wizzy555 said:
I kind of did, and still do to this day, but it has nothing to do with the movie. My mind wonders on stuff like that. How many mothers just died breast feeding their newborn? How many kids were excited to be getting out of school for the day, only to be murdered for no reason besides being in the wrong place at the wrong time? How many people on that planet may have actually been loyal to the First Order, or at least The Empire, and just couldn't get enough funds together to get off world? How many normal people who just care about waking up, getting to work on time, and making enough money to survive and couldn't care less about who is in charge higher up just died because some dick pushed a button? And that makes me wonder what the hell is wrong with literally every single person on Starkiller base. None of them even blinked as they willing slaughtered billions of people, probably the biggest death toll in the history of the entire universe. Worse, some of them cheered. That makes you a monster in my book. You are no longer human, alien, or even an animal. Monsters, every one of them, and every one of them deserves to die.The_Darkness said:
Anyway, like I said, my mind wonders on these sorts of things, probably more than most.
On to the topic at hand. For a second, I raised my eyebrow and thought, "Uh...no. A handful of villagers is NOT more than all the people in the city." It took me a second to remember what Starkiller base did, so then I was like, "Okay, he's right I guess..."
You know what, I rewatched Man of Steel recently and I don't really have a problem with that final fight scene. Yes, you cold argue that superman should've tried to take it somewhere else, but seeing them destroy Metropolis is a lot more interesting than seeing them fight in a desert or something. That, and I feel like they intended for superman to be the underdog in the fight (I remember seeing a video on youtube where they counted the hits, zod got about twice as many in as supes did, iirc). Similar to how he kills zod to save people, superman has to fight zod to stop his rampage, even if that means he can't save everyone.
Of course, that's just one way to look at it, and I mostly just like looking at cinematic destruction. I feel a lot of people just look at the movie as a whole and disapprove of it because of the tone and the script, and then having that kind of destructive fight just kinda destroys the feeling we want of superman. You could argue if the old superman still has a place in the current movieworld, but it's pretty understandable that the fight was received badly when you look at the movie that happens before it.
The comparison to TFA is flawed on so many levels that I won't even start, but people here have already covered that. It wasn't about the death toll, otherwise slasher movies would be on the low side compared to superhero flicks.
Of course, that's just one way to look at it, and I mostly just like looking at cinematic destruction. I feel a lot of people just look at the movie as a whole and disapprove of it because of the tone and the script, and then having that kind of destructive fight just kinda destroys the feeling we want of superman. You could argue if the old superman still has a place in the current movieworld, but it's pretty understandable that the fight was received badly when you look at the movie that happens before it.
The comparison to TFA is flawed on so many levels that I won't even start, but people here have already covered that. It wasn't about the death toll, otherwise slasher movies would be on the low side compared to superhero flicks.
Yes, Snyder, the evil space Nazis blew up five inhabited planets thus killing more civvies than your immortal space Jesus ever did. Thumbs up. Good job convincing us all that MoS is the greatest movie of all time.
Oh my God, is he serious? The First Order killed a bunch of civilians because they're EVIL and at war with the Republic. Snyder, if you have to compare your HERO, the guy we're supposed to root for, to that in an attempt to justify the 9/11 style destruction in your movie then maybe you just can't handle the criticism of the scene and need to let it go. Just admit that you like big fight scenes and cool scenes of dudes flying through buildings and quit trying to defend the damn movie so much.
Oh my God, is he serious? The First Order killed a bunch of civilians because they're EVIL and at war with the Republic. Snyder, if you have to compare your HERO, the guy we're supposed to root for, to that in an attempt to justify the 9/11 style destruction in your movie then maybe you just can't handle the criticism of the scene and need to let it go. Just admit that you like big fight scenes and cool scenes of dudes flying through buildings and quit trying to defend the damn movie so much.
That particular complaint about Man of Steel is balls to the wall idiotic. Listen, the movie had problems, but that is literally the worst nit picking I have ever heard. In the Death of Superman, Superman spent his entire time fighting Doomsday, who was rampaging all over the place. Lots of people died.
That is not a legitimate criticism of Man of Steel, no matter how you spin. The only thing more mindblowing than that criticism is that Zach Snyder is defending it. Just ignore it since it's a completely idiotic criticism anyway.
That is not a legitimate criticism of Man of Steel, no matter how you spin. The only thing more mindblowing than that criticism is that Zach Snyder is defending it. Just ignore it since it's a completely idiotic criticism anyway.