Zero Punctuation: Grand Theft Auto IV

[lindsay40k]

The GTA series to date have not been good crime simulators by any stretch of the imagination.

There goes the player, murdering their way through bystanders, raping* their way through the sex worker population without protection (and coming out of it in better health). Here comes the police. What is the absolute worst that can happen to the player? A ten second timeout, a bit of inventory stripping and teleportation to the front of the nearest police station or hospital?

No bail, no jail, no parole, no curfew, no injury, no illness.

Rockstar could have built on the ideas in Bully, making a virtual university of crime (or to use layman's terms, prison) populated with factions, corrupt guards, possible escape routes etc for players who fall foul of a virtual criminal justice system (which in turn presents the opportunity for some Phoenix Wright-style courtroom drama and tempering with evidence, witnesses and judicial officials).

Additionally, if the player is going to be caught in a hail of bullets then perhaps it might be a thought to implement a concept utterly unknown to the PlayStation generation of spoilt brats who need daddy (by which I mean gamefaqs) to play games for them - GAME OVER. A Police sniper hits you between the eyes, your vehicle explodes and the burning coffin lands in a deep body of water - player death, save file terminated.

Is this supposed to be a crime simulator for a mature audience, or a sandbox full of dolls that bleed and scream when children cut their fingers off?

Hopefully GTA will continue its trend of developing beyond interactive snuff and before long offer a genuinely intelligent and engaging experience.



*Forcing a prostitute to return her pay makes the intercourse a form of rape.

So are you objecting to the game on ethical/moral grounds or because of conceptual/gameplay issues? Your argument seems to take a turn when you mention children cutting off people's fingers. While I won't touch the moral issues, I don't imagine that having to check in with your parole officer between missions would be much fun (i.e. why people play games). Nor do I imagine that people would take kindly to having a 40 hour game save erased because they zigged instead of zagged. As for the coup de grace, I'm fairly certain that you don't have to interact the ladies of the night in this game, much less rape them. So in closing, I'm sorry that you didn't like the game (you have played it, yes?) and that not all media is lollypops and rainbows.

I'm making a general comment on the GTA series, which seems to be one of gaming's sacred cows. Pundits seem to give each release unrealistically high marks based purely on the fact that they aim higher than most games, despite the fact that as crime simulators not only are they aiming very low (hence my comment on the lack of a virtual criminal justice system or prison) but also fall far short of the level they aim for (with poor controls de rigeur and hardly any significant penalties for failure).

I enjoy playing around with a sandbox, and the GTA series has always provided high quality interactive comedy snuff for gamers able to keep reality and fantasy separate. My objections are to its reputation as a highbrow crime simulator, and its depiction of the sex trade. The fact that there are worse things happening in the media does not excuse the depiction of female sex workers as walking health bonuses who can be beaten into providing a refund with hardly any consequences. I'm sure those who think this act of rape being trivialised and rewarded in a video game is not a big deal would raise issue with a game rewarding acts of child molestation.

 

[s0denone]

I seek his points, but I can't help but love GTA4 and come to its defence. All he said were nick picks and should not stop anyone from buying the game. Btw you can fuck the friends, you dont have to ever go pick them up to go on a date if u dont want to.

I also know Ben doesn't play multiplyer, but not even a comment??? Come on, a HUGE installment to GTA was that you can roam the city with ur friends and have a blast. A a sandbox game in liberty city and with four of your friends? Years of fun right there.

And lets be honest, the police system is much improved. In GTA3 if you so much as hurt the cops or shot any body you get two stars and end up running around the city looking for stars or a sptray n pay. It was massively gay if you trying to get somewhere and have to go the other way to look for a pay n spray or for a star miles away.

I can't be the only one to realise that system was gay and didn't make it exciting as annoying.

Luckily for you, I realise that "gay" is an internet euphemism for "lame".
But I don't agree with you, reality wise, isn't it much better to have cops chase you for "shooting any body" ? Try walking out on a street, real life, and start beating someone up in front of the cops/a cop. Good luck talking yourself out of that one.

I'm not saying that IV's system is like real life, I'm saying it's more realistic than the previous games. That said, I liked the other system(s) better.

 

[Pariah164]

The T-Rex thing got me laughing much harder than it should have. Excellent work again, Yahtzee. Can't wait for next week!

 

[Donstheman]

I really think Yahtzee could have ripped on this game alot more, but I really enjoyed the review as always, for such a "Great" game it sure does have alot of bad points.

 

[Akexi]

True and true. great review and I am very pleased that he mentioned the trees which have a better chance over superman than a horse does.

 

[Nemra]

great review

 

[m_jim]

This is an open question to those who are complaining about this game's "perfect" scores: What makes a game perfect? If you make a game that is big enough to be epic, then your engine is bound to run into trouble with something (camera, driving, AI, etc.). If you make the scope of your game small enough to perfect those aspects, then your game is set in a tiny niche, which can't be expansive. I see it as a trade-off; Tetris is a perfect puzzle game that is ultimately shallow (no story, characters, etc.). I would submit the GTA series as the pinnacle of the other end of the spectrum, the sandbox/cinematic genre. Do we consider a title's place in the gaming universe in assessing it's "perfection"?

 

[blacknar ragmane]

Your remark on the ps3 version is rather silly. You say to ''avoid'' the ps3 version because of something extra and 100% optional which can be turned off? ... hm weird

im sure Yahtzee knows that you can turn off the six-axis feature but he was referring to the shoulder buttons of which he describes as "marshmellows".

btw anyone know which eastern european nationationality has last names that have the suffix
-ic in them? somebody earlier in this thread pointed out that the police database has niko and roman's ethnicity as "unknown" but i think that still doesnt rule out that they do indeed have a real-life nationality.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Dear Escapist Magazine,

Firefox and Adblock get rid of them all

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

My objections are to its reputation as a highbrow crime simulator, and its depiction of the sex trade. The fact that there are worse things happening in the media does not excuse the depiction of female sex workers as walking health bonuses who can be beaten into providing a refund with hardly any consequences. I'm sure those who think this act of rape being trivialised and rewarded in a video game is not a big deal would raise issue with a game rewarding acts of child molestation.

Whoa there mule...whoaaaaaaaaaaaa

What exactly makes beating up prostitutes worse than beating up the police? Or firebombing buildings? Or opening up with a minigun on a open road?

Now, it's not rape; for a start, rather negotiated sexual pleasure with afterwards (unrelated) assault, which you can perform on any of the characters. And I believe the first one is equally as illegal in most places.

Secondly, it's a game and therefore has to follow specific rules: I.E. Not charging the character with every crime he commits or you'd get a one star rating for driving on the other side of the road.

Thirdly, whilst the inclusion of 'protectors' would be realistic; it would then lead to people deliberately mowing them down to get all the protectors out.

Fourthly, you don't have to use them. It's usually easier just to go back and get some health from the save points.

Fifthly, if you use them, you don't have to kill them.

Sixthly, it could be seen as a positive message that idiots MAY do that IRL, in which case, keep a crowbar or rape alarm ready.

Seventhly, It is a game. A fragile depiction of real life with none of it's edges. You don't see Sonic fans robbing jewellery stores or Half-Lifers breaking crates open with crowbars.
Give the general public a degree of sense.

 

[aquana]

...I'm just here to fangirl as usual, move along O_O;;

 

[MattMatt39]

well done again

i dont know how you do it- but you are a dam good reviewer

 

[Medical supervision req.]

Gotta love the ragdoll effects in Gta IV

 

[DashiWarhawk03]

Wow, it was just like every other grand theft auto game... with a differnt guy.

 

[lindsay40k]

My objections are to its reputation as a highbrow crime simulator, and its depiction of the sex trade. The fact that there are worse things happening in the media does not excuse the depiction of female sex workers as walking health bonuses who can be beaten into providing a refund with hardly any consequences. I'm sure those who think this act of rape being trivialised and rewarded in a video game is not a big deal would raise issue with a game rewarding acts of child molestation.

Whoa there mule...whoaaaaaaaaaaaa

What exactly makes beating up prostitutes worse than beating up the police? Or firebombing buildings? Or opening up with a minigun on a open road?

Now, it's not rape; for a start, rather negotiated sexual pleasure with afterwards (unrelated) assault, which you can perform on any of the characters. And I believe the first one is equally as illegal in most places.

Not only does beating up a prostitute to take back her pay constitute a breach of the terms by which consent was granted (buy a PS3 and force the clerk to return your money at gunpoint before leaving the store and it's likely the shop will press charges for theft and robbery no matter how much you hide behind your receipt), it is overwhelmingly likely that a street sex worker is being coerced by her pimp - especially when sex workers are criminalised.

The fact that a user is hiring an accomplice to hold the knife to her throat or threaten to withhold drugs should she refuse to do sex acts she would never consent to in a relationship of equals does not change in any way the balance of power from being one of rapist and victim. The assault is an extension of this exploitation and should be recognised as directly related.

Secondly, it's a game and therefore has to follow specific rules: I.E. Not charging the character with every crime he commits or you'd get a one star rating for driving on the other side of the road.

By all means let's have corrupt, incompetent, overstretched and unmotivated cops who never bother with such petty crimes, but let's at least make them crimes on paper. I'm sure players would enjoy seeing how large a list of offenses they can rack up in preparation for a mission involving getting sent to jail.

Thirdly, whilst the inclusion of 'protectors' would be realistic; it would then lead to people deliberately mowing them down to get all the protectors out.

Come on, try to launch a one-man armed crusade against the pimps. See how long you get to keep your willie

Fourthly, you don't have to use them. It's usually easier just to go back and get some health from the save points.

They give a unique >100% health boost, correct?

Fifthly, if you use them, you don't have to kill them.

The option is there. All I'm asking for is a bit more thought be put into the possible consequences. Where is the alternative option to support a sex workers' collective that helps women organise to protect themselves against pimps and campaign for decriminalisation?

Sixthly, it could be seen as a positive message that idiots MAY do that IRL, in which case, keep a crowbar or rape alarm ready.

Let's give this to the ingame sex workers. Try any rough stuff and you get maced, the screen goes black, health falls to zero and you wake up outside hospital with a status message: 'Penis severed. No longer able to use prostitutes. Manliness down 5pts.'

Seventhly, It is a game. A fragile depiction of real life with none of it's edges. You don't see Sonic fans robbing jewellery stores or Half-Lifers breaking crates open with crowbars.
Give the general public a degree of sense.

the GTA series has always provided high quality interactive comedy snuff for gamers able to keep reality and fantasy separate.

...

I wonder if it might not be time to make two series - one devoted to a cartoonish world of Miniguns, tanks and Rampages, and a reality version - one with mourning families, skilled detectives and no retries. The mesh of a side-splittingly funny world with heart-splittingly tragic events is a little jarring. I could handle it in Vice City Stories, but here it just clashed too much.

I quite like the contrast of tragedy and comedy - it's a classical Greek literary technique that intensifies both themes if done well - but I can certainly see a place in gaming for Postal-style kill 'em ups and realistic and thought-provoking crime simulators that don't pull their punches. All's I'm saying is that the GTA series has a long way to go to being the latter.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

My objections are to its reputation as a highbrow crime simulator, and its depiction of the sex trade. The fact that there are worse things happening in the media does not excuse the depiction of female sex workers as walking health bonuses who can be beaten into providing a refund with hardly any consequences. I'm sure those who think this act of rape being trivialized and rewarded in a video game is not a big deal would raise issue with a game rewarding acts of child molestation.

I agree, it's a rather silly feature that's simply not needed. Nobody cares, though, so bringing it up only invites flaming. So I guess you shouldn't.

aside from the unnecessary side quests and the hours of looking around for something to do...
the only REAL problem I have with this game is the "realism" factor when it comes to the art.

Yes! There are games out there that require massive amounts of realism BUT this game is not one of them.

I personally believe this game would have been more enjoyable if the art was a little more "stylized" like vice city or "the warriors" were.

what do you think?

So when Crysis has real-looking graphics it's a great feature, but when GTA IV does it's "realism" and should be rooted out? Aren't Crysis' great graphics "realism", too? How on Earth comes "realism" has become a collective term for things people don't like in a game? The mind boggles.

I'm beginning to agree with Yahtzee. The repurcusions of your choices lead (my Niko, at least) to outcomes that just aren't funny anymore - they become heartbreaking scenes and soul-searching questions. The right decision is so hard to find in this game the further you play.

I wonder if it might not be time to make two series - one devoted to a cartoonish world of Miniguns, tanks and Rampages, and a reality version - one with mourning families, skilled detectives and no retries. The mesh of a side-splittingly funny world with heart-splittingly tragic events is a little jarring. I could handle it in Vice City Stories, but here it just clashed too much.

That sounds like a good idea to me. When I play GTA, I play it for arcade-ish action. I've got nothing against implementing realistic consequences to your actions, but it's not what I expect from a GTA game.