Zero Punctuation: Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number & Ori And the Blind Forest

[Overquoted]

Once we start quoting the Rocky Horror Picture Show, we've officially hit rock bottom.

Mmmm, Tim Curry in fishnet stockings. I can't even be jealous that he looks better in heels than me. B)

 

[CaitSeith]

Thanks for the spoiler warning

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I wasn't going to buy either of these games anyway, but thanks for reassuring me that I'm not really missing anything.

Basing your purchase on a game entirely on a Yahtzee "review" seems a bit premature. Look up some actual reviews before you write it off, because to me (and many others) Ori is game of the year material.

Captcha: too salty! no captcha, I'm not THAT salty!

Did you not read what I said? I said I wasn't going to buy them anyway. IE I'm not basing my purchase on Yahtzee's review.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I'm probably alone in this but I got happy when Yahtzee revealed the dead parent comes back to life. Agree that it undermines the whole purpose of the narrative but it's just a silly thing I like to be happy about right now.

 

[Xman490]

"A character dying and then being resurrected before we can see repercussions beyond a sob scene" sounds like a trope in EVERY BLOODY DISNEY MOVIE RECENTLY. Heck, some of them are brought back by tears, like Pokemon: The Movie (or whatever came before it) was somehow genius in that regard! Everyone remembers the deaths of Simba's dad, Bambi's mom, and Booker Dewitt (the story death, that is), but we can't feel sorry for any character who isn't at least partially damaged by their sacrifice.

 

[Strazdas]

Yeah, calling it now, the Order 1886 is making Yahtzee's worst list this year.

Well unless five even more terrible games come out before list-time runs around but come on how likely is that to happen?

have you seen steam greenlight? i could name you 5 worse games every week.

 

[Somekindofgold]

Hotline Miami 2 was just so disappointing. I loved the first game and I even committed a criminal act to get the second game in my country (Thanks Australian Government), but in the end it just wasnt worth it because the game quickly became infuriating.

And not in the Hotline Miami 1 style of infuriating. Theres a difference between biting off more than you can chew and being gangbanged to death by a bunch of angry russians, and being sniped from out of vision because of the absurdly large rooms. Hotline Miami worked so well partly because of the claustrophobia, tight hallways and small rooms that made guns a last resort. HM2 makes guns your bread and butter and encourages baiting and peekaboo combat instead of the frenzied 'Run in screaming like a maniac and hope you have the reflexes to live' gameplay that was so fun in the original.

Though I will disagree with him on the drug ending, that shit was awesome and I liked that the Fans became gigantic animals with exaggerated versions of their abilities.

 

[Nurb]

I'm glad someone is letting a little air out of Ori, it's gotten a little too puffed up because of the cute animation and visual style and the emotional manipulation which seems to be really easy these days.

 

[Cidward]

This is why I try to be thick-skinned about spoilers, because WOW would I have been unhappy if I'd gotten to the end of something like Ori to that.

 

[josh4president]

Yeah, calling it now, the Order 1886 is making Yahtzee's worst list this year.

Well unless five even more terrible games come out before list-time runs around but come on how likely is that to happen?

have you seen steam greenlight? i could name you 5 worse games every week.

Greenlight is cheating.

You don't rummage through the dumpster to find something to feed a food critic.

 

[EvilRoy]

The 'Nam sections bugged me a bit. Still, better than mandatory stealth like in the first one.

What I really hated in Hawaii was the limited ammunition. Just give me a full reload if I'm out of ammo, not just a few bullets.
The flamethrower is the best stealth weapon of any game though

And I will say that the music was fantastic - I can't believe that there were 49 original tracks for the game, but I do kind of want to buy the soundtrack now.

Get it! It's totally worth paying the full price.

The whole idea of "pick this weapon and now use it for the whole level" was what got to me. On one particular occasion I picked up the heavy machine gun thing, when it turned out to be the single worst choice I could make for that section. Struggling through two sections only to give up and just slooooowly knife my way through the last one really killed the level for me - but at least there was that option.

 

[deleted+75193]

DELETED

 

[Scootinfroodie]

And not in the Hotline Miami 1 style of infuriating. Theres a difference between biting off more than you can chew and being gangbanged to death by a bunch of angry russians, and being sniped from out of vision because of the absurdly large rooms. Hotline Miami worked so well partly because of the claustrophobia, tight hallways and small rooms that made guns a last resort. HM2 makes guns your bread and butter and encourages baiting and peekaboo combat instead of the frenzied 'Run in screaming like a maniac and hope you have the reflexes to live' gameplay that was so fun in the original.

I keep seeing this and it doesn't at all match my experience with the game.
HM2 is actually better for rushing through. Your swings are much more forgiving, your move speed is faster, and enemies are less finicky to bait out, meaning you can keep your combo going if you cant quite make it to the next guy with a gun. I also actually found it more responsive. The only gun-focused levels were on characters whose abilities were based around guns. Everything else I found possible to beat in the mad-dash-with-a-baseball-bat style outside of environments and enemies that even required shooting in HM1
There were also a number of rooms that definitely did not work on "guns as a last resort" in the first Hotline Miami, as well as rooms where you could be killed from offscreen/through multiple sets of windows

I even played through Hotline Miami 1 (standard ending and secret ending) within the last few weeks to make sure I was remembering everything correctly/not going crazy. All it did was cause me to notice more QOL improvements in the sequel

 

[felltablet]

I'm not one to respond normally to "defending" a game but Yahtzee it's worth noting that in Ori and the Blind Forest...

Spoiler

Gumon, the friend we make in the middle of the game, revives Naru with the only method he knew possible, the last bit of energy his people had left.

Now, Gumon KNEW Naru was there because if you look at the beginning, you'll notice Gumon is in the foreground, blurred out momentarily and even seen several times throughout the game. Gumon follows Ori in remarkably subtle ways. That plot hole has been resolved.

Now as for why Naru was revived, Gumon did it out of a "thanks" to Ori for saving him. Gumon learned Kindness from Ori and as such delivered it to Ori by doing Ori a favor.

Now, I can see where "They're dead they should stay dead" thing comes up, but don't forget this was the only way to resurrect someone throughout the whole world of the game. The point of the "come back" is to show hope and kindness prevails, not hate and darkness. If that doesn't fit your bill, fine. Its your opinion, I'm not here to change that at all but rather explain why a few things did happen in the game that were unanswered.

Personally I thought the game was perfect, I had 0 issues with it at all and it's my instant GOTY until something somehow does better. The actual gameplay of manipulating forms of platforming to solve puzzles almost portal level complex was extremely great to go with a skill-based timing is extremely well done. The visuals themselves have a charm that is amazing and overall I don't see where someone could criticize it to where it's considered "bad", even with it's questionable plot element.

Essentially Yahtzee I know you might not read this but I don't think you're inherently wrong, I just believe you missed something.

I heavily recommend Ori. It's beautifully made and crafted with a love and care that most games don't seem to have often now-a-days.

I really don't understand how someone misses all of what you mentioned. The revival required the sacrifice of a major power source. In addition, why does yahtzee harp on it for the need to be overly innovative? It is a platformer for all ages. No GOTY, but it is an incredibly solid game.

 

[Somekindofgold]

And not in the Hotline Miami 1 style of infuriating. Theres a difference between biting off more than you can chew and being gangbanged to death by a bunch of angry russians, and being sniped from out of vision because of the absurdly large rooms. Hotline Miami worked so well partly because of the claustrophobia, tight hallways and small rooms that made guns a last resort. HM2 makes guns your bread and butter and encourages baiting and peekaboo combat instead of the frenzied 'Run in screaming like a maniac and hope you have the reflexes to live' gameplay that was so fun in the original.

I keep seeing this and it doesn't at all match my experience with the game.
HM2 is actually better for rushing through. Your swings are much more forgiving, your move speed is faster, and enemies are less finicky to bait out, meaning you can keep your combo going if you cant quite make it to the next guy with a gun. I also actually found it more responsive. The only gun-focused levels were on characters whose abilities were based around guns. Everything else I found possible to beat in the mad-dash-with-a-baseball-bat style outside of environments and enemies that even required shooting in HM1
There were also a number of rooms that definitely did not work on "guns as a last resort" in the first Hotline Miami, as well as rooms where you could be killed from offscreen/through multiple sets of windows

I even played through Hotline Miami 1 (standard ending and secret ending) within the last few weeks to make sure I was remembering everything correctly/not going crazy. All it did was cause me to notice more QOL improvements in the sequel

No, it really isnt better for rushing through. I dont know if we played the same game but my copy of HM2 made you play corner bait and blind fire due to the massive corridors and the sheer amount of gun using enemies.

It is nowhere near the same as HM1. I went back after finishing 2 to play 1 and I found 1 to be a lot more satisfying design wise.

 

[Terminate421]

I'm not one to respond normally to "defending" a game but Yahtzee it's worth noting that in Ori and the Blind Forest...

Spoiler

Gumon, the friend we make in the middle of the game, revives Naru with the only method he knew possible, the last bit of energy his people had left.

Now, Gumon KNEW Naru was there because if you look at the beginning, you'll notice Gumon is in the foreground, blurred out momentarily and even seen several times throughout the game. Gumon follows Ori in remarkably subtle ways. That plot hole has been resolved.

Now as for why Naru was revived, Gumon did it out of a "thanks" to Ori for saving him. Gumon learned Kindness from Ori and as such delivered it to Ori by doing Ori a favor.

Now, I can see where "They're dead they should stay dead" thing comes up, but don't forget this was the only way to resurrect someone throughout the whole world of the game. The point of the "come back" is to show hope and kindness prevails, not hate and darkness. If that doesn't fit your bill, fine. Its your opinion, I'm not here to change that at all but rather explain why a few things did happen in the game that were unanswered.

Personally I thought the game was perfect, I had 0 issues with it at all and it's my instant GOTY until something somehow does better. The actual gameplay of manipulating forms of platforming to solve puzzles almost portal level complex was extremely great to go with a skill-based timing is extremely well done. The visuals themselves have a charm that is amazing and overall I don't see where someone could criticize it to where it's considered "bad", even with it's questionable plot element.

Essentially Yahtzee I know you might not read this but I don't think you're inherently wrong, I just believe you missed something.

I heavily recommend Ori. It's beautifully made and crafted with a love and care that most games don't seem to have often now-a-days.

I really don't understand how someone misses all of what you mentioned. The revival required the sacrifice of a major power source. In addition, why does it need to be overly innovative? It is a platformer for all ages. No GOTY, but it is an incredibly solid game.

Quoted the wrong person?

I never said it had to innovate....at all.

I also thought it was amazing.

As for the revival that's...exactly what I said? I was explaining to Yahtzee in case for some reason he actually felt like reading these comments.

 

[Grabehn]

I gotta say, after spending double the time into Hotline Miami just to get all the achievements cuz I liked it that much, I expected to like HM 2 as well, but that didn't happen, especially since the restrictions and enemies bugging out on doors make the whole thing WAY slower than the first one, and the quick "die and retry" gameplay was one of the main things I liked about it.

Also having filler dialogue at points, when you could sum it up as "yeah, that was cool", doesn't help much either.

I did not expect that kind of ending from something that tortures a cute glowy rabbit thingy to death in its opening sequence.

I kind of was, especially since the "mother" thing was present in the cover art of the game, and that the rabbit thing was supposed to be hope and all that.

 

[loa]

I kind of was, especially since the "mother" thing was present in the cover art of the game, and that the rabbit thing was supposed to be hope and all that.

Eh. I don't like it if characters are nothing more than personified concepts.
Final fantasy does that a lot.

I thought ori would show some huma- catrabbittity by dealing with his/her/its loss or something since that's the theme here, that this whole nuanceless "light vs dark" bore was just a means to that end.
The intro did a good job at characterizing without any dialogue. More of that.
Having a magical happy end button sabotages the entire thing.
Loss is irreversible. That's why it stings.

What I expected was something like transistor.
A gut punch at first but if you think about it, the best possible ("realistic") ending.

 

[Scootinfroodie]

No, it really isnt better for rushing through. I dont know if we played the same game but my copy of HM2 made you play corner bait and blind fire due to the massive corridors and the sheer amount of gun using enemies.

It is nowhere near the same as HM1. I went back after finishing 2 to play 1 and I found 1 to be a lot more satisfying design wise.

What do you mean by blind fire exactly?
Also you've managed to skim over all the reasons why I suggested it was better
HM2 is faster
HM2 has more forgiving melee hits
HM2 allows you to more efficiently manipulate enemy aggro to keep combos going if you need to wait for something else to fall into place

Additionally, every level where you could play a character who didn't have a gun-based bonus could be rushed with melee outside of the sorts of gun-based scenarios that HM1 had. You just had to recognize where you could and couldn't go, which is no different than HM1

 

[TheUnbeholden]

Its true that HM2 has buggier gameplay (but theres patches for that), it is noticeably better this time around. It feels like it flows more smoothly. The perks of the masks are more than just perks, they change up the gameplay sufficiently to make each level feel fresh. Theres the occasional odd ball mission that changes the gameplay quite abit, such having to collect ammo and use it wisely in the right moments due to the large amount of strategically placed enemies. Those missions feel more like a specially constructed puzzle than the more dynamic style of the usual levels, which is actually quite refreshing. Also its kind of funny for Yahztee to criticize the game for having uninteresting character arcs that don't go anywhere with weird moments... because thats been the theme since the first game. Its not really about whats happening storywise, the first one was questioning whats real and whats not and let the player come to his own conclusion, this one is has a more concrete story. Its the gameplay that is the main point, and it REALLY delivers. It seems to me that Yahztee played it all in 2 or 3 sessions rather than in bite sized bits (being a reviewer and his time obligations and all), its either that or he just isn't in the mood for this kind of fast paced balls to the wall difficulty anymore, and after seeing his first review, hes not a fan of synth music which already seriously damages how seriously I can take this review. The music is the second reason why you should play it, its fits the game and actually enhances it with its rythme. Its like you become one with the violence, speed and beat. Like a crazy spiritualistic guru.