Zero Punctuation: Overwatch vs Battleborn

Stewie Plisken

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Michael Prymula said:
For me and many other people, Overwatch did not "stomp" anything, they just catered to the same group of Blizzard fanboys who happily bought cosmetic stuff with real money in WoW.
Sorry, I gotta ask; what does "for me and many other people Blizzard just catered to the same group of fanboys" even mean? That the success of Overwatch is only so because of Blizzard fanboys? Because that's just silly.

Incidentally, I played Overwatch for two days or so in beta and loved it, played Battleborn in a free weekend before release and I hated it. Having said that, Battleborn does do some alright things, the problem was that Gearbox is staffed by orangutangs and burned the game before it ever got a chance.

erttheking said:
Sins against the church of St. Anita. I just...*Sigh* really? Really man? Do I have to point out how that's massively hyperbole? Mainly because Anita never comes up?
Have you been to NeoGAF? He was talking about NeoGAF. Sadly, he was not exaggerating.
 

MgMn

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But seriously now the pose may have been out of character but do you honestly think that after spending so much time in development a team of professional character designers wouldn't have figured it out on their own?
They probably just didn't care, the pose wasn't changed before release because it was thoughtless fan service, and when it caused a stir they sudenly remembered the character is supposed to have a fucking personality.
So I think Yahtzee's point stands, improving the pose had fuck all to do with artistic vision.
 

Piecewise

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Entropy_kC said:
Piecewise said:
I hate everything about overwatch.

I hate online multiplayer only games because 3 months from now the servers will be dead and the game will be worthless. It's already dropped by 50% since launch.
LOL yeah you just proved how you know absolutely nothing about the game. 7 million initial sales with 10 million active players at the last update. It's increased by 50% not decreased.

Just like how League of Legends, Dota2, CSGO etc. are all multiplayer only and died 3 months after launch. Oh wait... don't let your incredible bias hit you on the way out.
1. I was looking at players online at any given time, not number of sales. Number of sales is a completely pointless thing to base this on because it says nothing about the actual population of people playing currently. Halo 2 sold a lot of copies, I guess that means all the people with a copy are online playing it right now, right?

When you look at actual server max populations at peak hours (in North America) the number of people online has dropped by half since day 1.

2.Just because a handful of games maintain a high following is no indication that this will. And even if it maintains this following for years, it will still eventually become worthless after a while because the audience won't hang around forever. I can go back and play Halo 1 today in single player despite the fact that the servers for it are long gone and the online system doesn't exist anymore. Overwatch? If I try to go play it 10 years from now, it's gonna be a ghost town if it's even still in existence. It's just another in the growing mindset of games--and game ownership--being something transitory that isn't meant to last.
 

Groverfield

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A better point of reference from Battleborn would be to the creative team's previous game, Wildstar, which was basically "Let's make World of Starcraft because we really liked World of Warcraft but thought it grew up wrong, so let's make our game a modern Reticle-Action MMO the way all of the MMOs after 2010 have been, but take all of the worst grindwalls and hide our lack of endgame behind that. Most people familiar enough with Battleborn to see it's not an Overwatch ripoff were familiar enough with a team that had some really good ideas ruined by really bad nostalgia.
 

Hawki

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Groverfield said:
A better point of reference from Battleborn would be to the creative team's previous game, Wildstar, which was basically "Let's make World of Starcraft because we really liked World of Warcraft but thought it grew up wrong, so let's make our game a modern Reticle-Action MMO the way all of the MMOs after 2010 have been, but take all of the worst grindwalls and hide our lack of endgame behind that. Most people familiar enough with Battleborn to see it's not an Overwatch ripoff were familiar enough with a team that had some really good ideas ruined by really bad nostalgia.
Gearbox made Battleborn, Carbine made WildStar. I'm not aware of any 'cross-pollination' between the two games.

And "World of StarCraft?" Apart from the space western element, where's the similarities?
 

Transdude1996

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Samtemdo8 said:
KissingSunlight said:
Buffy the Vampire Slayer (The Best TV Show Ever Made!)
No that would be The Sopranos and the Wire and anythign on HBO really.

And the first 3 Star Trek shows.

And Seinfeld.
No love for Stargate? Also, are we just limiting this to live-action shows?
 

JagerBombastic

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Still not played the games...oh wait yes I have when I played team fortress 2 the first time round, still lovely bum. :)
 

FireAza

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Uh Yahzee? Blizzard didn't change the tracer pose because of ONE complaint on the forums. Christ, if game companies were THAT attentive to the desires of their fans, games would never be released because there's always someone who's unhappy about some small detail. No, Blizzard themselves weren't pleased with the pose and were planning on changing it even before the butt-gate controversy started. They unfortunately worded it so that the howling chimps that make up the usual participants in these arguments were able to say "SEE?? A single SJWs had the power to FORCE Blizzard to change something they find offensive! I bet they don't even play games!"
 

alceste007

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I have played both games. The two games are pretty different. The reason why I like Battleborn more is character customization. Through gear and talent choices, you can change the play and feel of a character. This can lead to build / gear loadouts that vary from ineffective to wrecking crew on the same character.

Overwatch is much easier to get into because there really is not much more than map memorization. You have seen one Tracer, you have seen the skills of all Tracers.
 

Anasynth

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FireAza said:
They unfortunately worded it so that the howling chimps that make up the usual participants in these arguments were able to say "SEE?? A single SJWs had the power to FORCE Blizzard to change something they find offensive! I bet they don't even play games!"
1. A spokesman for a game developer says to the masses "We are changing this in order to be more inclusive".
2. Audiences take issue with the supplied rationale for the change.
3. Audiences are stupid for believing the words uttered by said spokesman. (?)

I don't know how anybody can see Buttgate as anything other than a PR fuck-up by Blizzard - or not, depending on your opinions on good/bad publicity. If Blizzard was truly planning to replace the pose any way, they could have done the normal developer thing and swapped it out behind the scenes and make a mention of it in the patch notes. If they felt the need to comment further on the change, they could have have written up a lengthier update explaining how they changed the pose to make it more in line with her character or even just generically "better" (although I'm pretty sure they'd have no reason to do so in this alternate reality).

What Blizzard did instead was wade into their forum and publicly validate the concerns of a pearl-clutching ninny. You can frame the complainer's arguments as mostly pertaining to Tracer's character and not the "sexiness" itself, but that seems like a pointless distinction since it's the sexually suggestive pose itself that is argued to be incongruent with Tracer's personality. This poster followed up further by arguing that the pose depicted what's known as "presenting", which I assume means an invitation for fucking. This is silly, especially in the context of a video game that is already saturated with attractive designs and animations. And yet Kaplan felt this was worth responding to in the open.

So if Blizzard didn't want to give off the impression of taking heartfelt feedback from prissy nobodies literally arguing "DO THIS FOR MY DAUGHTER", then it's absolutely bewildering that they would have gone about it the way that they did. If you're going to be changing the pose any way - and it can't be to make it less sexist since the replacement pose is arguably even more alluring - then just do it and don't present it to the world as some societally-conscious action borne from compassion.
 

Raioken18

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Overwatch feel waaaaay too simple to have a $70-90 AUD price tag.
I feel like if they put half as much effort as they did advertising into the game itself it would be much better.

I hear a lot of people saying that is has a Rock, Paper, Scissors system for battling, however I would more compare it to being like a pokemon type chart with only one pokemon of each type. You have Ground and Ice which just wreck most people, Steel is crazy defensively.

The worst part is being a healer or a tank and just not having the ability to effectively kill people. You can have the best positioning in the world and still be useless as tits on a bull.
 

DTWolfwood

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While i agree about Overprice, there is a $40 version on PC. You just have to know how to find it lol
 

DTWolfwood

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While i agree about Overprice, there is a $40 version on PC. You just have to know how to find it lol dafaq with the double post?
 

aeroblaster

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So essentially, Yahtzee had no complaints for Overwatch.

His points were flawed:

1. Overwatch being overpriced is false. It's $39 base price for PC. $60 for special edition, which is the price of a NORMAL game. The price for the console version is $60 as well. Plus, considering he paid $70 Australian dollars for it, that means he bought the used version for a value of $52 USD. So calling it "overpriced" is an outright lie, especially for such a polished game with tons of essential FPS features, including the ability to save individual settings for every character and customize nearly every aspect of the settings for them, down to the smallest detail like reticle color.

2. The micro-transaction complaint is moot as well. The whole loot box system allows everyone to earn the cosmetics for free. If you have extra money you can choose to have all the flashy skins sooner, but that's entirely optional and in no way needed to enjoy the game. The default models, including the easily won skins through the loot box, are very satisfying.

So ignoring the non-sensical "overpriced" and "micro transaction greed" complaints, his only gripes were the simplified lore and the Tracer butt pose change.

TF2 didn't have much lore either, but that didn't stop it from being the greatest class-based shooter of all time. So that complaint, although valid, is beside the point. The butt pose change had Yahtzee arguing about loss of art direction, however the replacement pose was even better from an art direction standpoint as well! So Blizzard clearly cared about their game, but Yahtzee conveniently omits this fact and talks about how responding to "one" complaint is somehow indicative of Blizzard not caring about their game. Pessimistic spin while glossing over the good points is not fair judgement and really is more telling of Yahtzee's poor reviewing skills.

My main takeaway from watching this video is that Yahtzee found Overwatch fun, and he wanted to say it in a way that makes you think he isn't too crazy about it with a bunch of nitpicky side arguments of non-issues. He sure knows how to please his fans, but objectively this was a shitty review and pandered to those who just love to hear Yahtzee complain for 5 minutes.
 

ToastyMozart

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There is a non-full-priced version, Yhatzee. I mean I know it all being a business expense probably makes buying games a fairly carefree affair, but if you look on the store page there's one fancy edition that's full price, and then the normal version that's 2/3rds the cost and just doesn't include a handful of cosmetic skins.
 

EvilRoy

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ToastyMozart said:
There is a non-full-priced version, Yhatzee. I mean I know it all being a business expense probably makes buying games a fairly carefree affair, but if you look on the store page there's one fancy edition that's full price, and then the normal version that's 2/3rds the cost and just doesn't include a handful of cosmetic skins.
He actually buys the games himself, and writes it off his taxes as a business expense so he does have to pay attention to what they cost. The issue is more likely that its worth 70-90 AUD which in terms of what they pay over there is basically a full price game before taxes.

Here in Canada the only way you can get the cheaper version is online (no retailer appears to currently carry anything but the full price one, so I guess fuck you console users), but the online version is still worth about $55 - $60 (its hard to be certain because sometimes you pay the flat conversion rate which is $52 and other times you pay the "Canadian Version" rate which would probably be $60). This is vs a full price for a new game being about $70-$80 (I think D3 was 70 when it came out for blizzard reference). So its sort of cheaper, but not by much.

Its just a region thing where the US gets a few options, Canada maybe gets an option or two just by proxy, and everyone else pays an inflated price because they can get away with it.