Zero Punctuation: Papers, Please and Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons

Shamanic Rhythm

New member
Dec 6, 2009
1,653
0
0
Zombie Badger said:
Shamanic Rhythm said:
I don't think you quite get the point of the joke. This hypothetical politician only sleeps with pre-op transexuals. One can respect the rights of transexuals everywhere to self-identify whatever gender they feel they belong to, and still acknowledge that a man with a consistent sexual preference for men who identify as women is most definitely not straight.
Well,

Zombie Badger said:
The thing is, Yahtzee is saying that anyone who would have sex with a pre-op transgender person would be gay, which implies that any pre-op or non-op people cannot be considered in any way to be their desired gender. Now, the thing with the definition of gay and straight is that they are not based on genitalia, instead being based on gender. As strange as it may sound, being attracted to penis does not make you gay. Being attracted to people of the same gender (regardless of their genitals) does. This can be seen in that MtF transsexual porn is exclusively consumed by straight men (Details on FtM porn is hard to find and its existence is often debated). Gay men (such as myself) are not attracted to women, regardless of their genitalia, and MtF transgender individuals are not considered attractive to gay men due to them being distinctly female.
I'm not going to debate you if you're just going to cut and paste responses to me.

EDIT: Also guy below me, that was uncalled for.
 

Zombie Badger

New member
Dec 4, 2007
784
0
0
Shamanic Rhythm said:
I'm not going to debate you if you're just going to cut and paste responses to me.
I'm genuinely sorry if I've offended you in any way, but after six hours of this my hands are starting to hurt and I've repeated the same conversation so many times that it becomes mind-numbing.
 

Saika Renegade

New member
Nov 18, 2009
298
0
0
Playing Papers, Please is interesting because, in a way, following the rules leads to you come to realize that you're something a lot of people perceive as evil--a robotic, obstructive bureaucrat, whose only concern the procedures of his job, instead of the humanity of the people on the other side of the counter. Yet, at the same time, it's not even a proactive evil (most of the time anyway), but more of the dreary "but I must" mindset, since a lot of the time it boils down to attempting to hustle people through the checkpoint so your family can afford to both eat and not freeze. It's compelling because it makes you a part of two spheres of human drama, and in what I think was a brilliant psychological stroke, your family isn't even pictured, so far as I've seen playing. No names, no faces...they're just a collection of status indicators denoted only by the familial relationship to yourself.

It's not every day that we're given a glimpse into the operations of a Lawful Evil society; the people above you are the ones setting the arbitrary and restrictive rulings that will harm others by virtue of the law. Your only agency is obedience or defiance (presuming competency to be less of a choice thing and more related to skill), which is what, I think, makes it both such a bleak game and such an effective social satire.
 

UnravThreads

New member
Aug 10, 2009
809
0
0
Shamanic Rhythm said:
and still acknowledge that a man with a consistent sexual preference for men who identify as women is most definitely not straight.
If someone identifies as a woman, they're a woman. They're not "men who identify as women", they're women.

crimsonshrouds said:
And the third whiner.

You know the reason you three people made me wanna reply to you'll? I was on the receiving end of some nice bit of bile and hatred at work today. Im an Atheist by the way and i live in the bible belt.

You three are complaining about some jokes on a video with absolutely no vitriol or hatred behind them. There was no demeaning here or anything of that nature. You three are so soft skinned that this bothered you?

You three are a bunch of sad individuals who have wasted my time and a bunch of other peoples time with your pointless whining over something that had no hatred whatsoever. How about you worry about those that espouse hatred instead of jokes?
Right, because you being an athiest is totally the same as someone being transgender, right? And how have I "wasted your time"? I didn't make you read my comment, you could have skipped right over it. In fact, you had to collate those three quotes for your post so, in fact, you wasted your own time.

Maybe when the transgender community stops having the highest rate of suicide and stops being one of the most-targeted groups for assault/abuse/murder we'd be able to actually talk about things being 'jokes' or 'hatred'. And you - yes, you - cannot tell people what is or isn't offensive, because it's *subjective*. You have no 'right' to tell me or others that we cannot (or shouldn't) be offended by something. We all know Yahtzee is offensive, most of us have probably watched him for years, but this - for me - was when he crossed the line.

Also, it's not about "worrying about those who espouse hatred". It's about challenging ignorance, because ignorance is just as hurtful and as damaging as hatred can be. If we don't stand up and say "No, that was too far", then nothing will change.
 

Faegbeard

New member
Aug 22, 2013
4
0
0
So apparently making a joke about the holocaust is perfectly fine but making a joke involving transsexuals makes you worse than Hitler.

Funny how that works.
 

AuronFtw

New member
Nov 29, 2010
514
0
0
This just in: people with over-inflated egos and no sense of humor offended by crass joke from a fast-talking internet comedian.

It reminds me of the guy who played Chef on south park; he was totally fine with everyone ELSE being made fun of (races, religions, backgrounds) but as soon as they started attacking Scientology (his religion) he flipped out and quit the show.

Sorry chef, that only makes you a hypocrite. If you actually cared, you'd have cared from the beginning and spoke out against it. Starting to care only when you've been offended is picking and choosing. Yahtzee has been insulting groups of gamers, groups of real life people, a couple of religions and entire races (subtly and not-so-subtly) for years now. If you got cheesed off at a trans joke that wasn't even all that offensive nor made with malice or ill intent after years of enjoying it aimed at other parties, quit bitching. You have no ground to stand on.

Edit: to quote Matt Stone on the guy quitting South Park: "[We] never heard a peep out of Isaac in any way until we [lampooned] Scientology. He wants a different standard for religions other than his own, and to me, that is where intolerance and bigotry begin." And that hits the nail on the head. If you're a harsh advocate of political correctness, be sure to do it for everyone; if you wait patiently and question nothing until you personally get offended, you're creating/enforcing double standards that are good for nobody.
 
Aug 1, 2010
2,768
0
0
Loved the review. Papers, Please is one of the most perplexingly interesting games ever made. It has no right to be fun or meaningful, but it is.

On a side note, the amount of Tumblr social justice in these comments is staggering. Get the hell over it, it was a joke and not even at the expense of anyone. I hope this fad ends soon.
 

KarlMonster

New member
Mar 10, 2009
393
0
0
Hear! Hear! Well spoken Bruce!

I came here to opine about the tantalizing possibility of seeing an enormous scrotum in a video game, and not to witness a tenacious argument regarding a sexually themed joke.

In closing; see scrotum, avoid angst, (and also check out "Sir, You are Being Hunted").
 

moose and squirrel

New member
Jul 14, 2010
2
0
0
I know that Yahtzee regularly makes jokes at the expense of any and all groups of persons and I find them very amusing, but now he made a joke at the expense of a group of persons which I have emotional investment in! I am horribly offended and can no longer watch this video series.
 

Miroluck

New member
Jun 5, 2013
80
0
0
It actually was in "50 cent: Blood on The Sand" review. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/616-50-Cent-Blood-on-the-Sand

snowfi6916 said:
snip
Now, none of this has happened yet, because we are also long distance, so we have only talked over the Internet.
Then you're not reallly in a relashionship, sorry. Relationships do not become real until you have known each other in person for at least some time, and certainly not until you have personally met.
Hate to spoil your happiness, but if she asks to help her with money or something - do not send her anything under any circumstances and stop contacting her immediately. Too many conmen use that method now.
 

kuolonen

New member
Nov 19, 2009
290
0
0
Grach said:
I love how a absolutely throwaway joke made this thread burst into flames like powdered plutonium.
Meet the transgender community, in all its foamy-mouthed glory.

OT: Man I have to agree with Yahtzee on Papers please. This game is hell of a addictive. I also noticed that after a while I developed a burning hatred for receiving citations. I would get just giddy when I got chance to detain people, for trying to give me a citation.
 

snowfi6916

New member
Nov 22, 2010
336
0
0
team star pug said:
snowfi6916 said:
I usually enjoy Yahtzee's videos, but his joke about transgender people really fucking bothered me.

Why? Because my girlfriend is trans.

I've told her how much I love her on many occasions. I had to have an honest heart-to-heart with myself, because I want to have sex with her and make her happy, but it will be a while before she can have her surgery (she wants everything, the HRT therapy and the SRS surgery).

So yeah, I decided that right now, her penis is part of who she is, and I want to make her happy. So yes, I would be willing to do that for her.

Obviously, I would prefer vaginal sex (I mean hell, she told me she not only wants a vagina for herself, but because she wants to "ride me so fucking badly", which made me blush). But it's funny... I don't like dudes. I like women. And even though my girlfriend wasn't born one, I see her as one, because she acts like one and sees herself as one.

So, I look at it like I'm sucking my girlfriend's penis. =) I have yet to come to terms with my homosexuality.

Now, none of this has happened yet, because we are also long distance, so we have only talked over the Internet. But holy hell, every time I talk to her I get that warm tingly love feeling. Not just sexually aroused... it's more than that.

So yeah, I know this is the Escapist, and I know people will come out and call me gay for wanting to make my girlfriend happy because I love her. Don't care. I just wanted to say why Yahtzee's joke upset me.

...
Nice shitposting. Care to explain exactly why you have a problem with my post?

EDIT: Oh you changed it. Wow, you're real fucking mature.

Like I said, I could give a shit what you think. But if all you are doing is editing my posts, then I have already proven everything I need to.
 

snowfi6916

New member
Nov 22, 2010
336
0
0
Miroluck said:
JimB said:
Then you're not reallly in a relashionship, sorry. Relationships do not become real until you have known each other in person for at least some time, and certainly not until you have personally met.
Hate to spoil your happiness, but if she asks to help her with money or something - do not send her anything under any circumstances and stop contacting her immediately. Too many conmen use that method now.
So I guess the world has to adhere to what YOUR definition of a relationship is?

Also, she and I are in an open relationship, meaning we can see other people if we want to, given the distance. It's just that neither of us wants to.
 

Yuuki

New member
Mar 19, 2013
995
0
0
OHH right so the thread turned into a gender-debate thread. I was wondering how the hell this had so many comments, Zero Punctuation has been pretty boring for the past ~5 months or so.

I could watch Yahtzee's old stuff all day long on repeat and still laugh my ass off, but most of his newer stuff is just a snooze-fest.
 

Miroluck

New member
Jun 5, 2013
80
0
0
snowfi6916 said:
Miroluck said:
Then you're not reallly in a relashionship, sorry. Relationships do not become real until you have known each other in person for at least some time, and certainly not until you have personally met.
Hate to spoil your happiness, but if she asks to help her with money or something - do not send her anything under any circumstances and stop contacting her immediately. Too many conmen use that method now.
So I guess the world has to adhere to what YOUR definition of a relationship is?

First, I do not insist on anything. This was just an advice. Sure, you are free to use your own definitions - just don't complain if something bad happens as a result.
Second, it is not "my definition", I simply use definition that is already widely known.

Also, world will not "adhere" to anything anyway.

And you have never said what your definition of relationship is. Do tell how you define it, if that's not too hard.
snowfi6916 said:
Also, she and I are in an open relationship, meaning we can see other people if we want to, given the distance. It's just that neither of us wants to.
I did not mean that you're not in ANY relationships right now - I just meant that this particular one looks flimsy.

Another red flag - "open relationships". Under that trendy convinient pharse people simply hide their unwillingness to have commitment or responsibilities to their partner. Or just fornication - if person don't like anything, they can simply bail at any time.

Why would you even consider dating others if you and your gf are compatible and are committed to each other?
 

Reeve

New member
Feb 8, 2013
292
0
0
JimB said:
Reeve said:
Are people really saying in this thread that it wouldn't be homosexual behavior for a guy to suck off another guy just because he's going to have a sex change at some point in the future?
No, people are saying Mr. Croshaw, and you, and any outside observer, don't get to say someone who identifies as female is male. Gender dysphoria is a real thing, and being born with the wrong kind of crotch does happen. I don't think it's what Mr. Croshaw is describing in his joke, but as far as the whole "If she says she's a woman, then she's a woman" statement goes, I support it.
I doesn't matter what someone identifies as. A male is biologically male. Their chromosomes are XY. Putting on a dress and wearing makeup is not going to change that.
 

Reeve

New member
Feb 8, 2013
292
0
0
This reminds me of the Jimquistion where Jim pointed out that, just because the Asari are supposed to be genderless, does not make Femshepard having sex with Liara any less lesbian. That's because the Asari have a human female form. The same principle applies to a man sucking off someone who has the form of a man.

 

JudgeGame

New member
Jan 2, 2013
437
0
0
Miroluck said:
It actually was in "50 cent: Blood on The Sand" review. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/616-50-Cent-Blood-on-the-Sand

snowfi6916 said:
snip
Now, none of this has happened yet, because we are also long distance, so we have only talked over the Internet.
Then you're not reallly in a relashionship, sorry. Relationships do not become real until you have known each other in person for at least some time, and certainly not until you have personally met.
Hate to spoil your happiness, but if she asks to help her with money or something - do not send her anything under any circumstances and stop contacting her immediately. Too many conmen use that method now.
It's the 21st century. Your standards of what a "real" relationship constitutes are a little outdated.
 

AuronFtw

New member
Nov 29, 2010
514
0
0
Reeve said:
This reminds me of the Jimquistion where Jim pointed out that, just because the Asari are supposed to be genderless, does not make Femshepard having sex with Liara any less lesbian. That's because the Asari to have a human female form. The same principle applies to a man sucking off someone who has the form of a man.
Yep! Taking definitions that have had clear and meaningful biological definitions for hundreds if not thousands of years and dashing them to the rocks is a tactic that will only bring disaster on those who attempt it. If only they were wise enough to see their folly :(

Obvious objective rant from someone who has no troops in either camp: abuse individual trans people suffer - actual, malicious insults and attacks - is every bit as out of place and unacceptable as "normal" sexual abuse, and anyone guilty of it should be called out and punished for it. That said, a lot of this abuse comes from fear of the unknown - folks who are ignorant of what trans really is or means just spouting off rhetoric. Much of this kind of abuse can be reduced by simply teaching and educating folks on trans matters.

Look at how (generally) accepted the gay community is today - that came from decades of education and integration, dispelling rumors and undue fears. When a similar thing happens with the trans community, people will be more understanding and accepting (...in general, again, there will always be bigots). To give a specific example; gay men, for a long time, were implied to have or outright blamed for having a substantially increased leaning toward pedophilia. This had no basis in truth, and every scientific study done on the topic showed zero correlation. Over time the truth won out, and only hardcore bigots will quote this "fact" to attack gays anymore. Right now, the trans community has a lot of (equally bullshit) rumors and misconceptions floating around. With time and dedication, these will be dispelled - and said community will be one step closer to general acceptance.

What the trans movement doesn't need to do is force the world to change the basic definitions of "man" and "woman". There are biological definitions of man and woman that have existed for thousands of years, with obvious and clear meaning. Fucking that up with a less-than-0.5%-of-population jargon is just a disaster, and it's something none of them seem capable of understanding. Teach us about your issues; come up with terms for it that are descriptive of your issues. But don't take words that already have clear meaning and try to obfuscate them into meaninglessness. That will do you far more harm than good.

This is like the fifth civil rights movement in recent memory, so I'm honestly surprised people are still getting it wrong. Being overly hostile, labeling and degrading the "majority" will never win you brownie points. Throwing childlike temper tantrums over jokes will never win you brownie points. If you want to be accepted, show that you are accepting. If you want to be trusted, show you trust. If you want to be understood, educate and teach those who are ignorant of your lifestyle. If you want to continue being abused and mistreated, keep making mountains out of molehills - raising shitstorms over non-issues and straining relationships instead of improving them.

If your first reaction to a Yahtzee joke that offends you is "oh, fuck you, I'm never watching your video again," it doesn't really say anything good about your moral character or the movement you're trying to represent. If you are seriously interested in bridging the gap, reasoned and logical discussions and explanations will do far more good than temper tantrums and ragequits (and always have, in the end). The rare chaotic spark of a revolution is often wrought with conflict; but resolution and eventual acceptance requires mutual trust and understanding, none of which is gained through pointless conflict.
 

Miroluck

New member
Jun 5, 2013
80
0
0
JudgeGame said:
Miroluck said:
It actually was in "50 cent: Blood on The Sand" review. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/616-50-Cent-Blood-on-the-Sand

snowfi6916 said:
snip
Now, none of this has happened yet, because we are also long distance, so we have only talked over the Internet.
Then you're not reallly in a relashionship, sorry. Relationships do not become real until you have known each other in person for at least some time, and certainly not until you have personally met.
Hate to spoil your happiness, but if she asks to help her with money or something - do not send her anything under any circumstances and stop contacting her immediately. Too many conmen use that method now.
It's the 21st century. Your standards of what a "real" relationship constitutes are a little outdated.
What do you mean? What, in 2001 ALL of the standards just magically shifted for no reason and with no explanation?

Apparently, 21st century simply cannot exist without debauchery because without it, everything will revert to Dark Ages.