Zero Punctuation: Shovel Knight - Good NES Nostalgia

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,759
0
0
ZZoMBiE13 said:
Wow. Yahtzee likes Red Dwarf. Good to know!
Unless he's nostalgic about hating it. >.>

Falseprophet said:
I like to watch classic film noir like The Big Sleep and Double Indemnity, but there's no way I'm nostalgic for them--they were made when my dad was still in diapers! I think it's a mark of a medium's maturity that there are older works that can still speak to today's society.
Depends on why you like them, I guess. I have a friend who's nostalgic for John Wayne movies, when Wayne died the year he was born. Frankly, he grew up on them. I grew up with the MArx Brothers, and while I think their comedies work on their own, I admit that a certain level of nostalgia goes into it. I've seen wrestling fans wax nostalgic for the Hulkamania era that died before they were born.

I mean, you can like them anyway, but that doesn't mean you're not nostalgic.

bobdole1979 said:
wow Shovelknight has paid everyone haha. I didn't know Yatzee did paid reviews but ok. Not very sudbtle when Continue? GameGrumps, Yatzee and everyone else reviews the same game at the same time.
Indie games are notorious for buying everyone off.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

Alleged Feather-Rustler
Jun 5, 2013
6,760
0
0
OH GOD!
Can the miffed trifle please be a reoccurring bit?!
That face was absolutely hysterical! I'd buy a t-shirt with that little guy and the text "I'm a trifle miffed!"
 

Thanatos2k

New member
Aug 12, 2013
820
0
0
The nostalgia bashing always makes me laugh. No, older games really ARE just better than the crap we get today.
 

Ephidel

New member
Jan 29, 2014
59
0
0
It's quite a bizarre coincidence that Yahtzee has been playing the DS Castlevanias recently, seeing as I finished Order of Ecclesia myself yesterday. Halfway through a Normal Mode re-run for a second Master Ring now. I beat Portrait of Ruin back in late May/early June and I've had Dawn of Sorrow since 2008.

Makes me think of what Koji Igarashi will do next. I've heard there's some dispute about who actually owns the Castlevania franchise, so I'm hoping Iga can keep it and run with it on solo projects. Konami have really gone down the shitter as well. They were one of the classics, with Gradius, Contra (Probotector for me), Castlevania, Cybernator, Axelay and Pop'n Twinbee. I tried getting into MGS several times, but never could, and I always just went with Resident Evil, not Silent Hill. I had hoped to get the HD Version, but after hearing what Jim Sterling said about it, I decided to skip it.

Anyway, just a bit strange to think that "the industry" (< I hate that term) has changed so much and yet the insular Japanese developers are still failing to listen to any outside input after nearly 30 friggin' years. I mean, take Nintendo and "localisation" for example. We should have worldwide release dates by now, or at least release "weeks" where everyone gets a game within a few days of one another. Taking months for localisation is just a BS carryover relic of a practice that should be long dead by now.

I worry for the Japanese gaming industry. The world will be a dimmer place without it, but they really need to get their shit together.
 

Thanatos2k

New member
Aug 12, 2013
820
0
0
Machine Man 1992 said:
What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?
PS1 onward was 3D. We want 2D.

I too hate the crusade to flee back to the NES, because the NES wasn't the pinnacle - the SNES was. When you make the decision to use pixel art instead of 3D - I expect at a MINIMUM that the graphics look SNES quality. These intentionally bad NES-caliber (or WORSE!) pixel graphics are just lazy.
 

bobdole1979

New member
Mar 25, 2009
63
0
0
orangeapples said:
bobdole1979 said:
wow Shovelknight has paid everyone haha. I didn't know Yatzee did paid reviews but ok. Not very sudbtle when Continue? GameGrumps, Yatzee and everyone else reviews the same game at the same time.
Well, people tend to do reviews of games when they come out and it is kinda a high profile game. Also, Game Grumps does reviews?
not like this haha. This is clearly a grass roots type of marketing. Basically give people who have a lot of influence in the gaming world ie youtubers money to play your game and talk about how awesome it is.

It's not a bad game but the face that EVERYONE is playing this little indie game at the same time is a bit suspect. Game Grumps tends not to do just released games unless they are paid same with Continue (and the fact that Continue did their first ever 2 part episdode)

It's pretty clear that Shovel knights marketing budget has all gone to this.

oh and in no way is Shovel Knight a high profile game. It's an indie game... that's it really


Look at this way when was the last time all these youtube channels happened to do the same game at the same time?

Edit; Don't get me wrong i'm not saying "ERRRR THEY SOLD OUT" or anything like that i just find it funny when marketing is so obvious. I mean hell give me $5 and Ill play your game on youtube and rave about it. Shovel Knight is a good game its just funny is all
 

WhiteTigerShiro

New member
Sep 26, 2008
2,366
0
0
Normally I don't comment on ZP since I figure that it'll get lost in all the slurry, but I felt like posting in response to that niggle that Yahtzee pointed-out:

Yes, bottomless pits are just as good of an instant-death mechanic as spikes are when you have the spikes at the very bottom of the screen. However, what you cannot do with a bottomless pit is create a narrow path that needs to be jumped through, or a wall of death that needs to be avoided. Spikes are basically a mechanic that lets the level designer say "Don't go here or you die" in a manner that offers more flexibility than putting a bunch of pits all over the level.

As such, I would argue that they are just as valid here as they were in Mega Man where the spikes gained their infamy.
 

Machine Man 1992

New member
Jul 4, 2011
785
0
0
Thanatos2k said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?
PS1 onward was 3D. We want 2D.

I too hate the crusade to flee back to the NES, because the NES wasn't the pinnacle - the SNES was. When you make the decision to use pixel art instead of 3D - I expect at a MINIMUM that the graphics look SNES quality. These intentionally bad NES-caliber (or WORSE!) pixel graphics are just lazy.
Indeed. SNES graphics are the shit, even by today's standards. Nice, clean, colorful, and detailed (ideally).

And then there's 2.5D graphics; I for one, actually like the freaky effect they create.
 

Scow2

New member
Aug 3, 2009
801
0
0
Ephidel said:
Anyway, just a bit strange to think that "the industry" (< I hate that term) has changed so much and yet the insular Japanese developers are still failing to listen to any outside input after nearly 30 friggin' years. I mean, take Nintendo and "localisation" for example. We should have worldwide release dates by now, or at least release "weeks" where everyone gets a game within a few days of one another. Taking months for localisation is just a BS carryover relic of a practice that should be long dead by now.
Localization requires time. Worldwide release dates merely means they're holding off on releasing a finished product until the slowest localization teams finish, as opposed to releasing the game when it's done where it's done, and not holding back releases for unrelated development cycles.
 

Muspelheim

New member
Apr 7, 2011
2,023
0
0
Beat it down, Sir? Alright, the usual routine. Allow me to fetch the sunday mallet, Sir.

I wonder what would be a nostalgia product for me. Probably some high-res re-release (rererererere...) of Operation Flashpoint or somesuch.
 

step1999

New member
Mar 11, 2010
91
0
0
Machine Man 1992 said:
What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?
Have you played the Rise of the Triad remake? It's a really good 90's style shooter that came out last year
 

Lotet

New member
Aug 28, 2009
250
0
0
bobdole1979 said:
Wait, you were serious when you made the original comment?

I played and finished Shovel Knight within the first few days of its release. It just tries to do what the old games did well. There's a reason people liked those old games mate.
 

KoudelkaMorgan

New member
Jul 31, 2009
1,365
0
0
How in the hell did no reference to THIS not find its way into the review? I was waiting for it, but sadly it never came.

 

bobdole1979

New member
Mar 25, 2009
63
0
0
Lotet said:
bobdole1979 said:
Wait, you were serious when you made the original comment?

I played and finished Shovel Knight within the first few days of its release. It just tries to do what the old games did well. There's a reason people liked those old games mate.
i'm not saying its not a good game i'm saying that when almost every youtuber out there who does videos of them playing OLD games all of a sudden decide to play the same exact game in the same week its kind of obvious what is happening here.


I never said it wasn't a good game or it doesn't do what it does well. Just that the developer spent a LOT of money on a viral marketing of sorts.
 

Machine Man 1992

New member
Jul 4, 2011
785
0
0
step1999 said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?
Have you played the Rise of the Triad remake? It's a really good 90's style shooter that came out last year
Do I have to get it off steam? Because my computer can't handle half the shit that get released nowadays.
 

Bunni

New member
Mar 12, 2010
5
0
0
Complaining about uninteresting indie titles when Transistor came out two months ago and you completely ignored it.

I'm in pain.
 

step1999

New member
Mar 11, 2010
91
0
0
Machine Man 1992 said:
step1999 said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?
Have you played the Rise of the Triad remake? It's a really good 90's style shooter that came out last year
Do I have to get it off steam? Because my computer can't handle half the shit that get released nowadays.
Yeah, it's from steam. It was on sale for £2.00 a few days ago. I hear some other players have performance issues with it, although it runs fine for me. Captcha: string along
 

Lotet

New member
Aug 28, 2009
250
0
0
bobdole1979 said:
Lotet said:
bobdole1979 said:
Wait, you were serious when you made the original comment?

I played and finished Shovel Knight within the first few days of its release. It just tries to do what the old games did well. There's a reason people liked those old games mate.
i'm not saying its not a good game i'm saying that when almost every youtuber out there who does videos of them playing OLD games all of a sudden decide to play the same exact game in the same week its kind of obvious what is happening here.


I never said it wasn't a good game or it doesn't do what it does well. Just that the developer spent a LOT of money on a viral marketing of sorts.
Well, with the Continue guys at least, one of them was just friends with one of the developers and got a free copy.

In the case of Game Grumps, you might already know that Egoraptor likes the old classics. As seen with sequalitis. He says he was anticipating the release of the game. That sounds appropriate.

Yatzee gave his reason.
 
Jan 27, 2011
3,740
0
0
bobdole1979 said:
i'm not saying its not a good game i'm saying that when almost every youtuber out there who does videos of them playing OLD games all of a sudden decide to play the same exact game in the same week its kind of obvious what is happening here.


I never said it wasn't a good game or it doesn't do what it does well. Just that the developer spent a LOT of money on a viral marketing of sorts.
Well, to be fair, it's possible they all backed it on Kickstarter so they were all hyped to play it long before release, and they all jumped on it as soon as it was out. I know my youtube video making friend did just that.