Zero Punctuation: Sonic Boom - Boom or Bust

RealRT

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Oh, fuck me. I mean... what the fuck, Sega? You make a great game in Sonic Generations (yeah, it was pretty damn good, even if Yahtzee will never admit it) and then you just fuck it up more and more and more. What the hell is wrong with you. Were you too afraid of being accused of copying yourselves? Well fuck that, Mario is formulaic as hell and his games don't make people want to murder the developers.
 

gamegod25

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It's interesting that the devs of Sonic Boom, Big Red Button Entertainment, are former former Naughty Dog members (as well as a few other studios) and considering how terrible the game turned out it's no hard to see why they are former members.
 

hermes

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LordTerminal said:
hermes200 said:
That final exchange seems like the design motto of the people that makes the modern Sonic. At this point, anyone dumb enough to buy the modern games, is dumb enough no level of contempt displayed by the developers seems enough.
That is ignorant thinking as there have been good modern Sonic games. Colors and Generations being the two main obvious ones and I really think the people hating on Unleashed and Lost World (Not that those games didn't have glaring flaws mind you) are being too cynical to trust.

Really if you say that simply because of Big Red Button's mess alone then congratulations, you're a reminder as to why franchises die in the first place.
Really? Thanks. I will take your guilt trip over overplayed franchises with poor to mediocre entries while the SEGA executives let more interesting games rot or go, as a compliment.

At this point Sonic is a franchise that needs to take a good look at itself, even if it means not having a new Sonic game for the next 5 years or so. Sonic appears in 3 to 4 games every year, the good ones at this point being the anomalies, not the norm. And if that means the franchise is better in our memories than in store shelves, so be it. It is not like the people handling Sonic has anything to do with the original team to begin with.
 

BeerTent

Resident Furry Pimp
May 8, 2011
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I'm still trying to figure out what's more hilarious. The fact that the brick took offense, or Yahzee's review.
Flunk said:
GENERATIONS WAS GOOD.

This looks more like a Sonic Unleashed, terrible because they focus all on the "not Sonic" gameplay.

I'm tempted to start working on my own Sonic rip-off. I'll have to change just enough stuff to not get sued but I can rip off the gameplay from Sonic 2 & 3 almost totally (it's not like Sega is using it). I'm almost not kidding, maybe after my current contract is finished.
Really, nobody has any kind of patent on "2D platformer."

If you're actually serious, I'd consider jacking into Unity, or Ethanon engine. I also have some royalty free music I had found. Find yourself a little team. The hard part is finding a group of people, and the overall design of the levels. Get the pencil and paper out now and use your spare time to figure that shit out. Do your research too.
 

Megacherv

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Sep 24, 2008
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Logience said:
IamLEAM1983 said:
You're not funny. Memes that aren't funny are the worst memes.
Dude, chill. I'm a pretty big Sonic fan, probably the second biggest Sonic fan I know in person (the other being a good mate of mine who lives and breathes it), and we both accept that it's a terrible game and that badly-drawn-Sonic is amusing. Because we accept that it has it's bad points and we know where the faults lie (namely in Bed Red Button for this travesty)

IamLEAM1983 said:
I mean, CryEngine 3 felt sluggish even on the 360 and its optimal PC requirements are still slightly insane. Considering how quickly 3D Sonic games have to update what's visible at max draw distance, I can see how the engine would buckle under pressure. Boom was hastily cobbled together, the cartoon is only slightly better - great visuals, meh writing - so yeah.
I loved reading about how the Hedgehog Engine worked (the engine used in Unleashed and Generations), the lighting was pre-calculated in a large cluster over the course of the day, and the lighting values were all stored in the level, similar to how WoW 'bakes' the lighting into the textures but this method still has proper lighting that is cast onto the level and the object within it. This meant that you could get proper lighting without compromising performance when moving at high speeds (which you most certainly did in those two games)


Chalk it up to Sega's inability to find a competent outsourced team and to said outsourced team's generally not giving a shit.
I'm wondering why Sonic Team didn't work on it themselves, unless they're working on something else and/or didn't want to work on another Nintendo-exclusive title (which I think that their exclusivity contract is now finished)

It's a crazy thing when the best thing the Sonic license has going for it as of the last decade is the Archie comics...
Ehhhh...not sure that's entirely true. Unleashed isn't actually that bad, it has fun daytime stages and the nighttime stages are just average slog-fests, and the Unleashed Project can get rid of that anyway. Generations and Colours were both great, although Generations was in dire need of DLC which we would happily have paid for, and I've heard that Lost World is actually pretty good from people that have played it.

EDIT: Oh yeah, gotta go fast

 

IamLEAM1983

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Aug 22, 2011
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Quiotu said:
Sega basically needs to play nice with Archie and start making games in their universe, because Sega's Sonic universe is awful and keeps getting worse. Now that'll never happen, and it would mean Sega'd have to wade in the festering sewer that is Archie's Sonic comic character IP hell, but I fail to see Sega alone making anything decent with the Sonic franchise again without fresh blood, and a lot of it.
I'd like that, myself. I'm a bit of a closeted Mammoth Mogul fan, nevermind how much his concept is a rip-off of DC's Adam Savage, and I'm kind of bummed out by the treatment he's received in the comics, following Sega's involvement. He was Sonic's first decent and fairly intellectual antagonist in a long time, what with Robotnik-slash-Eggman devolving into the butt of jokes.

If anything, I'll admit Penders et al. painted themselves into a corner. When you write an unkillable warlock-slash-immortal with nigh-on godlike powers and you manage to get him defeated by your plucky, weaker if more resourceful protagonist, then your only course of action pretty much is to make the guy pull anything between a Doctor Zhivago or just going "Fine, I'll wait you out". They went with Option B, and we haven't seen him since.

Megacherv said:
Ehhhh...not sure that's entirely true. Unleashed isn't actually that bad, it has fun daytime stages and the nighttime stages are just average slog-fests, and the Unleashed Project can get rid of that anyway. Generations and Colours were both great, although Generations was in dire need of DLC which we would happily have paid for, and I've heard that Lost World is actually pretty good from people that have played it.

EDIT: Oh yeah, gotta go fast

Yeah, Lost World is supposed to be decent; I'm mostly basing myself off of my personal experience with Modern Sonic; I've only read reviews for most of these games and have only played Generations. I loved it to bits, though, and I loved that it was released on the PC. I'm not as much of a console gamer as I used to be, and consolidating my Steam library feels more effective than hunting more living room hardware every five or six years.
 

Pebkio

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Nov 9, 2009
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Okay, honesty time, I liked Sonic CD. And it had a time-travel mechanic. Finding the areas where you go go the 88 miles per hour needed was rewarding. Also: Sonic 3 is my favorite... not 2.

I also liked the Sonic R songs. I liked how I could put my Sonic R disc into a cd player and it would play the music starting at track 2 (track 1 was just all the data so it gave white noise).
 

MCerberus

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vonSanneck said:
I can wager you feeling rather nice after that review.

Btw Sonic fans that are smart enough bought Freedom Planet.
Unfortunately, according to my calculations they conquered planet freedom.
Oh references to ancient YTPs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9fHGdR1IyM
 

crazy_horse1989

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Hey, new guy here, sorry for butting in, but it seems no one recognized who he was talking about starting with 2:33, so I just had to make an account to comment about this.

"Over the weekend, an associate asked me what kind of game Sonic Boom was."

I watched every video Yatzhee posted on his Youtube channel, so I know for a fact that the associate was Gabriel, the guy who he records "Let's Drown Out" with. I know it's something minor, but it was really funny how he made him a bartender in the review, seeing as Gabriel was in fact a bartender in the past.

They did talk about this in their latest Let's Drown Out, so I've been waiting for the review since. Nice work, as always.
 

Madd the Sane

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Flunk said:
I'm tempted to start working on my own Sonic rip-off. I'll have to change just enough stuff to not get sued but I can rip off the gameplay from Sonic 2 & 3 almost totally (it's not like Sega is using it). I'm almost not kidding, maybe after my current contract is finished.
Somebody has already done that. It's called Freedom Planet [http://freedomplanet.galaxytrail.com]. The bosses are hard, the levels are big, and you get to run around really fast.
 

Charli

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Logience said:
IamLEAM1983 said:
You're not funny. Memes that aren't funny are the worst memes.
As a sonic fan I disrespectfully disagree.

Those memes are funny and actually keep sonic relatively alive in public consciousness. At least as a butt of a joke.

So grow up you mirthless turkey.
 

Thanatos2k

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Logience said:
I'd still like to know why Sonic is automatically considered bad.
It's not. 3D Sonic is what is automatically considered bad. Is it Sonic in 3D? It'll be bad.

It's why Generations was not entirely bad.
 

Logience

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Thanatos2k said:
Logience said:
I'd still like to know why Sonic is automatically considered bad.
It's not. 3D Sonic is what is automatically considered bad. Is it Sonic in 3D? It'll be bad.

It's why Generations was not entirely bad.
Then why do people now hate Sonic 2 and 3 for causing the cast to expand? Sonic 4 for having messed-up inertia?

And Sonic Generations is only good in 2D but always bad in 3D?! What?!

And disregarding these points, I have one question for you: Why is 3D Sonic automatically bad? It isn't; it's just an overly popular buzzword that everyone repeats to make themselves seem cool. Just like the whole concept of how Sonic 06 became infamous: Everyone and their mother just thought it was FUN to say "SONIC 06 SUCKS LOL" all the goddamn FUCKING time!!!!
 

144_v1legacy

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Logience said:
LordTerminal said:
Except that Sonic '06 did legitimately suck.
That's not what I asked and you know it. Stop weaseling out of answering me.
I think the bigger question is, why are you, throughout this thread, defending sonic to such an extent? What is it you like about the various iterations that makes them worth defending, in spite of the continuous critical panning they receive after high hopes?
 

Thanatos2k

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Logience said:
Thanatos2k said:
Logience said:
I'd still like to know why Sonic is automatically considered bad.
It's not. 3D Sonic is what is automatically considered bad. Is it Sonic in 3D? It'll be bad.

It's why Generations was not entirely bad.
Then why do people now hate Sonic 2 and 3 for causing the cast to expand?
I have not seen a single person saying they now hate Sonic 2 and 3. Where in god's name are you getting this from.

Besides, Sonic Adventures is what I hate for causing the cast to expand with useless side characters.

Sonic 4 for having messed-up inertia?
Saying "3D Sonic sucks" does not mean that "2D Sonic is always good." Sonic 4 is a perfect example of this.

And Sonic Generations is only good in 2D but always bad in 3D?! What?!
Yes. And look at the reviews, that's what most people agree with.

And disregarding these points, I have one question for you: Why is 3D Sonic automatically bad? It isn't; it's just an overly popular buzzword that everyone repeats to make themselves seem cool. Just like the whole concept of how Sonic 06 became infamous: Everyone and their mother just thought it was FUN to say "SONIC 06 SUCKS LOL" all the goddamn FUCKING time!!!!
Many reasons, but a few of the most important ones:

1. Controls. Controls in a 3D game (especially using an analog stick) are significantly different from those in 2D. In 2D it's left right and jump to move. In 3D there's all sorts of range of motion you have to tweak to feel right. Much, much easier to make tighter controls the fewer variables you have. Controls in the 3D Sonic games suck.

2. Camera. 2D games are far easier to get the camera right than 3D. 3D you have to make decisions of whether the camera will be fixed distance, fixed locations (think God of War/Resident Evil), how much control the player has over moving it, how to prevent it from occluding view of the character if things get in between you and the camera, and so on. All problems that don't really exist in 2D games, which is why you'll almost never see people complain about the camera in a 2D game while people will complain about the camera in almost every single 3D game.

3. Level design. Going with controls, it's far easier to make tighter and better envisioned level designs in 2D compared to 3D, where a player has far more movement range. A 2D track of land that is 20 feet long in a 3D world is a CIRCLE with diameter 20 feet, and has far more space for the character to move around in. In 2D imagine branching paths. You maybe have one that goes up and to the right, one that goes down and to the right, or maybe you have to double back to the left. Few options. In 3D you have tons more - because any edge of that circle could be a new path, not to mention adding height to the equation. Now imagine trying to develop a combat system. In 2D you can jump to avoid an attack, or move left and right. You cannot move "past" an enemy without jumping over them. In 3D this is possible - just run around them. So you've literally added another dimension of variables to every single thing you need to design. It's a LOT harder, and conversely, Sega has never gotten it right.

It's also why so many 3D Sonic games have you running through strips of land that simulate 2D experiences, like running forward unable to stop and only being able to move left and right and maybe jump - they've reduced the experience to a 2D equivalent because it's much easier to design and tune that way. Problem is they only do it for short periods usually, then it's back to the terrible 3D land.
 

yes_more_ads_please

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Toblo1 said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
I suppose Yahtzee has a new Worst GOTY contender for his end of the year list. Which would go something like:

1) Sonic Boom
2) The Evil Within
3) Thief
4) Lightning Returns
5) Hyrule Warriors
I disagree on Hyrule Warriors. Yahtzee didn't exactly say it was bad/horrible, just that it was boring to him and the plot was nonsensical(to him, at least.).

I say Risen 3, Sacred 3, Advanced Warfare, Amazing Spider-Man 2, Watch_Dogs or Destiny fit better on the list than Hyrule Warriors does. Then again, that can just be my inner Nintendo fan talking........
Came here to offer my Top5/Bot5 predictions, so I'm jumping off similar posts already on offer.

Bottom: Sims 4, Amazing Spider-Man 2, Evil Within, Thief, Sacred 3
Dishonorable mentions: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow, Assassin's Creed: Unity

Top: Dark Souls 2, Shovel Knight, Alien Isolation, Middle Earth: Shadows of Mordor, Wolfenstein: New Order
Honorable mentions: Bayonetta 2, Valiant Hearts


Thanks for another great year, Yahtzee!
 

Cidward

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Adding to the Top 5/Bottom 5 predictions.

* Top 5: Valiant Hearts, Alien: Isolation, Bayonetta, Dark Souls 2, DA:I (token surprise placement)

* Bottom 5: Watch_Dogs (I'm betting on this for Worst of the Year), Sonic Boom, The Evil Within, Amazing Spider-Man 2, Castlevania

Ride to Hell will retain its place as the Total Abhorrence holder.

I feel like there's less awful this year than there was last year. More mediocre, but less outright awful.