Zero Punctuation: Soul Calibur IV

BloodMoon54

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Jul 16, 2008
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i must say as a fan of the soul calibur series 4 was quite disappointing all together 2 and 3 are much better and you can tell this one was just for money
 

ZodiacBraves

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BloodMoon54 post=6.69063.649231 said:
i must say as a fan of the soul calibur series 4 was quite disappointing all together 2 and 3 are much better and you can tell this one was just for money
I'm not sure about "Just for the money" but you're right 2 and 3 were far superior
 

Dectilon

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As long as you can play as Vader in a game, I'm in! Well, perhaps not but...

I don't think it reeks of desperation, but it does reek of something. It is to be noted that his "secret apprentice" is also in the game regardless of version. This is more of an "everyone profits" situation between companies. LucasArts get to promote The Force Unleashed and Soul Calibur will sell a few extra copies to the SW-fanatics whom otherwise wouldn't look twice at this game.

While there is at least one battle that I know of that you can't win with throws only (since that character auto-techs all throws) I do hate throws in SC games. They have much longer reach than they appear to, they do lots of damage and interupt any other attack (almost). Me and my friends have banned throws except for if the opponent just missed an attack that has long cooldown (like Yoshimitsu jumping past you by mistake).

As for this game in particular it is imo not nearly as good a game as the last one. The story mode has been reduced to absolutely nothing, the adventure mode is complete rubbish and the game has been slowed down for online play (which is too laggy to play in any meaningful manner) that I can deflect almost any attack; even the really quick ones!

Multiplayer was not brought up in the review here, and without multiplayer there are scant few fighting games worth playing. If I had to liken fighting games to something else in the gaming world I'd say they compare like a constant FPS duel where you're faced with a single skilled opponent and you're both trying to trick each other into sucking a rocket by stepping in the wrong direction or running into an enclosed space. Mastering a character, learning how to exploit frame-by-frame differences in move speed, varying up your attacks to keep your opponent guessing, and reflex-saving against powerful moves and combos makes fighting games a unique and satisfying experience in its own right.

Unfortunately, just like Yathzee said in the Ninja Gaiden 2 review, sometimes the adolescent minds of the desginers make you feel ashamed you're the intended audience ~~
 

Pehmu

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Jul 23, 2008
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Yahtzee usually makes funny game reviews. Unfortunately this wasn't one of them.
The main problem in this one was that Ben doesn't like fighting makes. So he clearly desperately tried to find something to complain about -- which was just too obvious.

I'd like to hear Yahtzee's opinion about a PS1 figting game called Bushido Blade. BB doesn't have blunt swords nor epic, but stupid backstories.
 

Blueberries

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Aug 20, 2008
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Usually I would agree whole heartedly with Yahtzee, but Fighting Games are my favorite genre. The deconstruction of the single player portion of a fighting game is just a tad ridiculous. Of course its crap. However as Mr Croshaw is so fond of mentioning, he doesn't play the multiplayer of anything, though if I remember correctly he did play Brawl with "friends". I will say this, I'm not defending Soul Calibur, I dislike 3D Fighters, I'm just defending the genre...mostly Street Fighter and King of Fighters.
 

arberp

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the issue i have always had with fighting games is that to enter combos on a controller bares very little resemblance to any feeling of combat, the exact mechanics of the game could be played out with two rubicks cubes on screen and who ever enter the right combination of purely random buttons wins...the "characters" on screen at the end of the day are window dressing for what i believe is a game completely detached from the gameplay and the silly lighting up and dancing models on the screen.

here is a simple formula for it

SCIV:
Punch Button + Forward Button + Forward Button + Kick Button + Kick Button = flying in to the air and glowing for five seconds and then eventually doing something god awful to your opponent that results in absolutely no physical mark left on your opponent

Proper Games:
Punch Button = A punch.

direct feedback anything less fails as a game for me.
 

Irysa

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Aug 20, 2008
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Odjin post=6.69063.649180 said:
Long time since I've seen more crap posted. Fighting Games are the most annoying and lame games in existence. So let's bust some myths here.

- They are about skill
A nice myth sticking around like stench to a toilet. They are not about skills especially if any twat just button-mashes his way to victory. I've played numerous fighting games and it is always the same. Some or less prone to trashing others more. In the end memorizing move sets is not a "skill" at all. Timing? Yeah my ass... Huffing down a combo chain by pressing buttons in a sequence in the right timing gives you kudos for having too much time at your hands to learn finger twist but shows your lack of any "combat" skills or gaming skills in general. So forget the one with the skills, it's just a nice myth
Again, doing combos isn't skill, it's the ability to read and predict your opponent's actions and have appropriate counters.

And "memorization" isn't how people come up with their own blockstrings and mixup. Playing off memory is how you get destroyed in high level play, where you need to change your style on the fly not to get predicted.


- Fun playing against buddies
Skill games are fun if played with buddies ( or party games if you are drunken like hell ). Luck and memory games are boring together since after a short time you know all the combos. Finding holes in his defense? There isn't much looking or finding in a game type which ends after 5 seconds if you just mash the buttons. The main problem with fighting games is that they are boring very quick since they lack anything new or different. After 5 minutes you've seen all the game has to offer. And don't come me with "goodies". If you think a game is good because it has goodies go bury yourself since you are a nerd with no life... and no taste :D
Sigh. Again, combos aren't the big point except in stuff like Tekken which has ridiculously long juggles. If people button mash, then they can easily be punished by any good counter setup, like using an attack with strong priority, shield/parrying/etc, or using superflash moves to hit them when they should have been blocking.


- Characters are good
Really? You should know it better nerd. You are playing this only because of the nearly naked girls with bigger boobs than they have swords. Granted not all fighting games are like this ( try to find a booby wielding girl in a godzilla beat'm up ;) ) but the ones with the big fellowship are. If I want naked women I can go get myself some pr0n... much cheaper and lasts longer ;)
Eh. SC character designs are garbage yeah, but I do quite like the designs in games like Guilty Gear.

There are other things but in general the main problem in this games is that they are exhausted after very short time. And comparing a fighting game to chess should get you arrested on the spot. Comparing a pure skill and tactic game with a button mashing memory game is like comparing a cake to a bag of poo ( to stick with the analogy given by Yathzee ).
Sigh. No. Again and again, button mashing and combo memorization is not the point of a good fighting game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_hxhwM8gOI

Tell me if you think the guys here are "button mashing", the mixup and pressure in these games are intense. Not to mention nearly all of Nero's combos require you to actually change the jump timing and cancels depending on practically anything from the range to the character.
JakobLogan post=6.69063.649199 said:
Irysa post=6.69063.649168 said:
JakobLogan post=6.69063.649082 said:
Irysa post=6.69063.649061 said:
JakobLogan post=6.69063.649026 said:
Shinkada post=6.69063.649014 said:
I like Soul Calibur/er but I can't defend it.

I can defend the general fighting genre, though.

They're only just behind FPS games when it comes to a pure match of skill, so those who like actual competition are the ones most drawn to it.
Are you kidding me? Fighting games are pretty far away from games of pure matches of skill
You clearly have never played a proper fighting game.
You're right, on second thought there are a few that come to mind, i was just thinking mainly of the Soul Calibur Series. I still wont give in to the point that they are "Just behind FPS when it comes to a pure match of skill"
And why would that be? Both effectively rely on what I exemplified on earlier, ability to read and understand an opponent's strategy and have effective reactions to be able to counter them.

Besides, I think he was reffering to videogames specifically. Not all competitive forms of sport of what have you.
Ever play an RTS?
O.k yeah. That's true. I'll submit on that.
 

Random Argument Man

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I liked the last thing he said in the credits. He didn't beleive that people took the top 5 seriously

Well anyway, I wonder when we will see the 10 reviews in these forums that says exactly what Yahtzee just said.
(If you haven't noticed, it actually happens alot).
 

scaramoosh

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SC was the only fighting game I've ever liked which was on the Dreamcast but since the it feels like they're just putting in aload of gimmicks I don't want and the SC series feels really cheap now. I'd rather them work on the quality of the game and the characters rather than have a customization mode which all the characters end up look crap. I understand why they put Star Wars in a SC game but the one thing I want to do which is Vader vs yoda I can't do, I'd rather Lucas Arts just team up with the SC crew and create a seperate Star Wars fighting game. Also I hate the over the top boobs, the Japs are really perverted and I just hate all their character designs, all too emo for me.

SC made in the west would be the best.
 

arberp

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Jul 28, 2008
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that video achieved nothing apart from boring me for the 2mins i could be bothered to watch it.
 

Woe Is You

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All I'm willing to say to this "fighting games aren't about skill" claim is that I'm believing it when someone enters a tournament like Evolution and button mashes their way to victory in a game like Street Fighter. There are bad fighting games that don't require skill, but there are also bad RTS games that don't require that much skill either. But that's normal with all games.

Also, Irysa, Melty Blood is pretty much the Tekken of 2D games. Just so you know, that's a BAD THING. Ridiculously long air combos with 20+ inputs is exactly what turns me off from it and Tekken.

laikenf post=6.69063.649284 said:
Anyone who plays a fighting game because of the story is a fool.
I would extend that to the FPS as well. Very few FPS games have a good story, but for those that do, it's a nice bonus (like Bioshock and...um...are there any others?).
 

UninspiringlyNamed

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Nice review. One point I don't agree with, though, is the 'random button mashing FTW' aspect being extended from SC4 to all fighting games. I've played my fair share of fighting games and the SC series is the only set of games in which random button mashing can give you a respectable chance of winning against most people. Usually, the problems dug up by Yahtzee are offset by multiplayer replayability value (as some previous posters have mentioned), but the nature of the series means that there is no real point to improving when you can still be beaten by anyone, hence there isn't really much point to it at all.

Also, what will it take to make Yahtzee review an RTS? So far it's the one genre I can think of that he hasn't touched.
 

Irysa

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Also, Irysa, Melty Blood is pretty much the Tekken of 2D games. Just so you know, that's a BAD THING. Ridiculously long air combos with 20+ inputs is exactly what turns me off from it and Tekken.

Hahaha, you cannot be serious. The longest combo in melty blood borders on about 15 inputs (most are about 10 or less) If you're talking about the hits Nero gets in the air, his JC attack does 4 hits, and he has low damage output, hence why he has to prioritize the amount he gets (since he can only get a total of 3 wallslams)

And proration DESTROYS any super long juggle combos because the damage output is severely reduced the more hits you get. The point of the combos is to find the SHORTEST POSSIBLE ONES that do the most damage, so it's the complete opposite.
 

Rogthgar

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Aug 18, 2008
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As hes stated several times before he reviews by popular demand, ei. he dosint choose them.
 

Woe Is You

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Irysa post=6.69063.649321 said:
Also, Irysa, Melty Blood is pretty much the Tekken of 2D games. Just so you know, that's a BAD THING. Ridiculously long air combos with 20+ inputs is exactly what turns me off from it and Tekken.

Hahaha, you cannot be serious. The longest combo in melty blood borders on about 15 inputs. If you're talking about the hits Nero gets in the air, his JC attack does 4 hits, and he has low damage output, hence why he has to prioritize the amount he gets (since he can only get a total of 3 wallslams)

And proration DESTROYS any super long juggle combos because the damage output is severely reduced the more hits you get. The point of the combos is to find the SHORTEST POSSIBLE ONES that do the most damage, so it's the complete opposite.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRF2tZPdnec

I see at least one 19 input combo there and the rest seem to average around 15 inputs. And I remember that characters like Akiha had even longer combos, but I haven't touched the game for a long ass time (since MBAC ver. A, actually), so I can't be completely sure.
 

Bob_F_It

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May 7, 2008
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The point made about Darth Vader pumping lots of sales is more than valid.

The SC2 version I hated the most was the Gamecube one, because it came with a ridiculous controller that doesn't connect with best-of-3-rounds fighters. Yet it sold the most because it had Link in it, and that's what did it for a lot of gamers: spastically mash some buttons to watch their favourite adventure character go round in a somehow lethal loop of the same moves. Smacks of fanservice, lacks true gameplay.

But now SC4 is only playable on controllers with practical distribution of buttons, and you can start working into the mechanics of the game and perhaps work out some effective and nifty looking combos (but in doing so, you will of course become THAT GUY).

Also, if you don't like the idea someone nigh-on-naked being able to withstand 20 smacks with a hand-guillotine, you could just set the health really low. Makes swordfighting seem life threatening again.
 

Irysa

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Woe Is You post=6.69063.649345 said:
Irysa post=6.69063.649321 said:
Also, Irysa, Melty Blood is pretty much the Tekken of 2D games. Just so you know, that's a BAD THING. Ridiculously long air combos with 20+ inputs is exactly what turns me off from it and Tekken.

Hahaha, you cannot be serious. The longest combo in melty blood borders on about 15 inputs. If you're talking about the hits Nero gets in the air, his JC attack does 4 hits, and he has low damage output, hence why he has to prioritize the amount he gets (since he can only get a total of 3 wallslams)

And proration DESTROYS any super long juggle combos because the damage output is severely reduced the more hits you get. The point of the combos is to find the SHORTEST POSSIBLE ONES that do the most damage, so it's the complete opposite.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRF2tZPdnec

I see at least one 19 input combo there and the rest seem to average around 15 inputs. And I remember that characters like Akiha had even longer combos, but I haven't touched the game for a long ass time (since MBAC ver. A, actually), so I can't be completely sure.
VerB is much more balanced.

And the Hisui dust look is shit for damage considering how much meter you have to waste on it. Most good Hisui players prefer using EX dust for strings and not damage, since it's seriously not worth it. Not to mention it's ridiculously basic anyway, and the it's basically the only plausible one I can think of that goes that high anyway. The game is in no way centered around such combos.