Zero Punctuation: Top 5 Games of 2015

shrekfan246

Not actually a Japanese pop star
May 26, 2011
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Kingjackl said:
Also, you can't call Undertale a hipster SJW game anymore when it's Yahtzee's game of the year, and TotalBiscuit's second favourite game. For a start, the final genocide run boss is probably harder than anything in Dark Souls.
It shouldn't have been called a hipster SJW game in the first place.

The only reason it was is because it's a game that appeals to people who aren't straight white men.

And yes, that's the greatest affront a video game can make to the community these days, apparently.

Lightspeaker said:
Maybe I'll play it in a year or two if it ever gets really cheap and when people finally stop going on and on.
I'm not going to get involved in any discussions on the relative merits of Undertale but, as a point of note, if $10 isn't what you consider to be "really cheap" then I'm not sure what is.
 

CaitSeith

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I would put Bloodborne and SOMA higher on the list. Although I have played neither Witcher 3 and Elite Dangerous, so whatever.
 

Weaver

Overcaffeinated
Apr 28, 2008
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saxman234 said:
I don't know where these rabid crazy fans of Undertale are.

I feel like I see so many more rabid haters of Undertale who comment about Undertale and its fans whenever they can.
I think they're all on Tumblr or something cause I've legitimately really not seen anywhere on the internet I frequent - including this site.

I loved Undertale but I can totally understand how exposure to an irritating fanbase would put you off something.
 

SeventhSigil

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As someone who got a fair bit of enjoyment out of OTHER titles that people on the Internet kept insisting were artsy-fartsy rubbish like Journey, Thomas Was Alone, etc, it's looking I should give Undertale a try. o.o I haven't encountered any form of rabid fanbase- to be honest, seen way more backlash against the game, though it might just be that I don't hang around the right Internet circles- soooo without that to spoil my appetite for it, I might have myself a new thing to occupy myself til No Man's Sky comes out! =D
 

BX3

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MerlinCross said:
Just gonna talk about Undertale real quick.

A rather big strength and weakness is the whole "Have to play for yourself" mantra. The fans that say this are kinda right. Going into the game without knowing helps to strengthen some of the head turns the game has(Flowy in general). But at the same time, this desire to keep just about everything secret when actually talking about the game(Oh but not in art works) kinda grates on and on. Just some info would be nice.

This is basically Spoiler Warning, the game. Or Indie Spec Ops. Just talk about the basic plot or at least the gameplay a bit.
What makes it even more off-putting is the fact that this isn't true for everyone. I actually wasn't the least bit interested in Undertale UNTIL I saw a playthrough of the pacifist route. When I saw all the options in the game, how it remembered shit you did and how interesting I found the battle system, I made a beeline to Steam to purchase it. The other stuff like my appreciation for music, the story and the hidden sidequests all came later.

If I had gone into the game without knowing anything, I probably would've been almost as off-put by it as SlumlordThanatos. Maybe not to the point of hating it, but I definitely wouldn't appreciate it and Toby's antics as much as I currently do.

Weaver said:
saxman234 said:
I don't know where these rabid crazy fans of Undertale are.

I feel like I see so many more rabid haters of Undertale who comment about Undertale and its fans whenever they can.
I think they're all on Tumblr or something cause I've legitimately really not seen anywhere on the internet I frequent - including this site.

I loved Undertale but I can totally understand how exposure to an irritating fanbase would put you off something.
I bounce around Tumblr a fair bit these days. Maybe it's because I mostly follow artists and comedians, but I haven't seen any rabid fans there either. Mostly just some amusing fanart and a few cringeworthy webcomics/animations.

The closest thing I can link to UT fans being outright insufferable was during the whole NeoGAF "Best Game Ever Poll" thing... but even that debacle was apparently a direct response to users getting angry that UT was even nominated in the first place so... I'unno. I guess that sorta counts, since the UT fans could've just as easily been bigger men/women about the whole thing.
 

Arnoxthe1

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Dec 25, 2010
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SlumlordThanatos said:
For me, it was finally getting past Toriel without killing her. The very end of the demo.

The moment I decided I didn't like the game and wasn't going to play it was when the game called me out for reloading a save in order to leave Toriel alive.

That was the last nail in the coffin. A game is not supposed to remember that sort of thing. When all of the games I've played in my life all behave the exact same way, it's difficult to handle a game that takes perverse pleasure in subverting the most basic of your expectations.

That might not be so bad for your average gamer, but when you've played as many games as I have, it's hard to distance yourself enough to appreciate something like that.

Holy shit, am I turning into that old coot who screams at the kids on my lawn?
Well... That's the thing...

Flowey is there to knock your **** in the dirt. Whether you deserve it or not. He's the voice of cynicism and downright nastiness. He does a very creepily good job of establishing this RIGHT at the start of the game too. He's also integral because he makes you start off distrusting any monster, whether they're supposedly helping you or not. You don't know whether you should trust this monster or that or just end them quickly.
 

wizzy555

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Oct 14, 2010
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shrekfan246 said:
Kingjackl said:
Also, you can't call Undertale a hipster SJW game anymore when it's Yahtzee's game of the year, and TotalBiscuit's second favourite game. For a start, the final genocide run boss is probably harder than anything in Dark Souls.
It shouldn't have been called a hipster SJW game in the first place.

The only reason it was is because it's a game that appeals to people who aren't straight white men.

And yes, that's the greatest affront a video game can make to the community these days, apparently.
Actually I think undertale captures what it's like to be a straight white man on the internet really well. Everyone attacks you for no reason and if you actually defend yourself, you're worse than Hitler.
 

shrekfan246

Not actually a Japanese pop star
May 26, 2011
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wizzy555 said:
shrekfan246 said:
Kingjackl said:
Also, you can't call Undertale a hipster SJW game anymore when it's Yahtzee's game of the year, and TotalBiscuit's second favourite game. For a start, the final genocide run boss is probably harder than anything in Dark Souls.
It shouldn't have been called a hipster SJW game in the first place.

The only reason it was is because it's a game that appeals to people who aren't straight white men.

And yes, that's the greatest affront a video game can make to the community these days, apparently.
Actually I think undertale captures what it's like to be a straight white man on the internet really well. Everyone attacks you for no reason and if you actually defend yourself, you're worse than Hitler.
Were we playing the same game?

A large number of enemies in the game straight up didn't want to fight. Even many of the bosses were only doing so because they thought they had to, because they were told to by their king.

And, small thing but, "defending yourself" can take many forms other than physical violence. Undertale certainly isn't the first game to acknowledge that mindless slaughter isn't the only course of action to respond to everything with, but it's one of the only ones I can think of that so naturally integrates the player's decision into both the gameplay and narrative.

Disclaimer: I'm not even really all that hot on the game. I played it to record an LP of it, in which I proceeded to apparently miss a lot of the things that made people fall in love with it. I thought it was cute, and I can appreciate what it does re: gameplay and story because I think it's a massive step forward to have a game remember things like Undertale does and I did really enjoy the characters, but the biggest reason it would potentially be on my "Game of the Year" list is simply because I don't really have the capability to play other games like Bloodborne or The Witcher 3, I haven't yet been able to dive into Metal Gear Solid V or SOMA, and I honestly don't even remember all that well what else came out last year. I could've sworn The Order: 1886 came out in 2014, for example.

EDIT: Oh, also -
The only people I've ever really been attacked by on the internet are other straight white men. They tend to be incredibly insecure about things like their sexuality and masculinity, as if those are things that could be taken from them if they don't bench-press fifty-million pounds 200 times a day and eat raw steaks for every meal while loudly proclaiming about how much totally heterosexual sex they have.
 

wizzy555

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Oct 14, 2010
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When I say no reason I mean no reason initially apparent to the player character. You are walking down the street and wild froggit appears.

Yes you can defend yourself in various ways but again if you choose the method they use on you, you are terrible.
 
Jan 27, 2011
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SlumlordThanatos said:
That was the last nail in the coffin. A game is not supposed to remember that sort of thing. When all of the games I've played in my life all behave the exact same way, it's difficult to handle a game that takes perverse pleasure in subverting the most basic of your expectations.
Yeah, then the game is DEFINITELY not for you. The fact that the game does that, that it remembers everything you do, even if you load a previous file, is one of the things that makes it truly special. It's a game in which your actions do indeed have consequences, and I love it for that.

After having played at many RPGs as I have, it's refreshing as hell to have a game surprise me like that. Man, that Neutral Ending Final boss...Holy shit I have not had my mind blown that hard in forever.

...Then again, I'm one of those guys who absolutely loved Spec Ops the Line and how it slapped my hero complex attitude in the face. :p I love subversions, deconstructions and games of that sort. Comes with being a writer at heart, and someone who wants to design games for a living.

Holy shit, am I turning into that old coot who screams at the kids on my lawn?
Maybe you are.

Then again, I feel that way too sometimes and I'm only 27. >_>
 

SlumlordThanatos

Lord Inquisitor
Aug 25, 2014
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aegix drakan said:
...Then again, I'm one of those guys who absolutely loved Spec Ops the Line and how it slapped my hero complex attitude in the face. :p I love subversions, deconstructions and games of that sort. Comes with being a writer at heart, and someone who wants to design games for a living.
There's subverting stories and trends, and then there's subverting the very basic inner workings of a game. I rather liked Spec Ops; I had never played a game that made me feel genuinely bad about my actions.
For example, the moment that sticks out most to me was when I found out that you didn't actually have to shoot at the crowd of civilians who had you and your men cornered. I killed even more innocent civilians than I already had, because I didn't think to simply fire off a warning shot. I had an excuse for the white phosphorous bombing; with the information available to me at the time, I thought that I was bombing enemy positions, not civilians. I didn't have that excuse when I was cornered by an angry mob and shot several of them in cold blood. That chilled me to the bone, a feeling that no game before or since has evoked.

But Spec Ops didn't remind me about what I previously did when I played through the game a second time. It also didn't seem to take pleasure in calling me a monster. Spec Ops made me question who I was, and left me to think about what I did; they never outright called me a monster, just showed me the horrific actions that I undertook to make it to the end. Undertale just told me who they thought I was to my face, and did so with almost childlike glee. This is despite using everything at my disposal (namely, save-scumming) in order to try to do the right thing.

It's certainly thought-provoking, but that doesn't mean that I have to like how Toby Fox went about it. Spec Ops attacked the power fantasy of the military first-person shooter, while Undertale attacks how the player plays their video games. That makes it personal.

Too personal for me.
 

gorfias

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Michael Prymula said:
while Battlefront 3 does not deserve to be on a "worst" list, I have to write, in a generation that includes Titanfall, this is pretty thin stuff. I bought it anyway. It's Star Wars man!
The "it's Star Wars" excuse doesn't fly with me considering the game has so much less content compared to BF2, and don't even get me started on that stupid fucking 50 dollar season pass, or the pay to win nature of the game(if you buy the Digital Deluxe edition, you get the best gun in the game at level 1, otherwise you have to wait til level 30).
I never played BF2 online. (I have it for PC now. I should see if anyone is out there!) When I did try it on PS2, I died violently, very quickly. Almost unplayable.

There is fun to be had in 3. My nephew has played it more than me in one sleep-over day. He tied a number of modes, including one where you pilot fighters but ended up liking heroes vs. villains the most.

I do worry for a buddy that will never play on line. I hope the missions are worth the $60 price tag to him. He does adore Star Wars to the point that I don't think he'll care. The label still matters to a lot of people.

EDIT: Just tried 2 on PC. Multiplayer requires Gamespy, which is defunct :-(. 4x3 visuals! Single player campaign reasonable fun. Level 2 includes flying in space. I wasn't hitting a damn thing but it was pretty.
 

Parama

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Aug 15, 2013
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what was the music clip he used for the worst games intro? i recognize it from somewhere and it's driving me crazy trying to figure out where
 

Zahri

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Dec 15, 2008
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SlumlordThanatos said:
aegix drakan said:
...Then again, I'm one of those guys who absolutely loved Spec Ops the Line and how it slapped my hero complex attitude in the face. :p I love subversions, deconstructions and games of that sort. Comes with being a writer at heart, and someone who wants to design games for a living.
There's subverting stories and trends, and then there's subverting the very basic inner workings of a game. I rather liked Spec Ops; I had never played a game that made me feel genuinely bad about my actions.
For example, the moment that sticks out most to me was when I found out that you didn't actually have to shoot at the crowd of civilians who had you and your men cornered. I killed even more innocent civilians than I already had, because I didn't think to simply fire off a warning shot. I had an excuse for the white phosphorous bombing; with the information available to me at the time, I thought that I was bombing enemy positions, not civilians. I didn't have that excuse when I was cornered by an angry mob and shot several of them in cold blood. That chilled me to the bone, a feeling that no game before or since has evoked.

But Spec Ops didn't remind me about what I previously did when I played through the game a second time. It also didn't seem to take pleasure in calling me a monster. Spec Ops made me question who I was, and left me to think about what I did; they never outright called me a monster, just showed me the horrific actions that I undertook to make it to the end. Undertale just told me who they thought I was to my face, and did so with almost childlike glee. This is despite using everything at my disposal (namely, save-scumming) in order to try to do the right thing.

It's certainly thought-provoking, but that doesn't mean that I have to like how Toby Fox went about it. Spec Ops attacked the power fantasy of the military first-person shooter, while Undertale attacks how the player plays their video games. That makes it personal.

Too personal for me.
If I may, I think you may be looking at this in the wrong light on 2 levels that I can identify.

The first is this idea that the game takes pleasure in making you feel bad. It's a game. It doesn't feel jack. It's a nitpicky point, but it's not as if the game is out to attack you. Making the argument in reference to the character of Flowey would be a lot more reasonable.

In doing so, though, it kind of overlaps with the other level that I can identify. Some other folk have pointed it out, but that whole bit about him dragging you through the mud is a rather integral character trait of his.

Total Biscuit put it really well in calling Undertale a god game. The game recognizes you the individual behind the screen as an entity and interacts with you through several facets, one of those being Flowey. This idea comes into huge play later on, and it's one of the large reasons people are so nuts in the game.

In effect, it takes many of the tropes that apply to the videogame medium specifically and incorporates them into the writing, with many an implication of that notion. Including how the world itself responds in light of such an individual with the capabilities at your disposal as the PLAYER, as well as how other elements within the game may take advantage of such an individual, of such a situation.

In short, it's a narrative device that works on multiple levels, one of my favorites including wiping out the all too common problem of story and gameplay segregation to a large extend in a way that from what I see makes sense for the context of the game.

This idea and the implementation of such in Undertale is what makes it special.

That and all the love Toby put into the bloody thing, for lack of a better term. The world building at the most micro level and the implications tiny details bring.

I do note some other people have brought up points similar to mine as well, though in reading the topic, I didn't see one that went over them in a way I thought was satisfactory, hence me elaborating.

My two cents, at least.
 

FireAza

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Aug 16, 2011
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Camels don't have water in their humps, they have fat. Pick up a biology textbook, ya git!

<UNNECESSARY EXTRA CONTENT ADDED SO AS TO PLEASE TRIGGER-HAPPY MODS>

How similar is "Rise" to the previous Tomb Raider? I really enjoyed the TR reboot, so I would hope the next one is just as good. Though if it feels like an expansion pack and adds nothing new, I think I can understand why it made it on the bland list.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

Bound to escape
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I cannot plat Undertale without a PC. Something is telling me i am missing out. Oh well. Wouldn't be the first time. *sighs heavily and cracks open bottle of wine*
 

iller3

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brief revival of the Dolphin running gag ... 2015 was alll worth it then


PS: Never played undertale, but I'm listening to its SoundTrack and remixes every day. Large part of that was due to Yahtzee's Extra Punctuation earlier this year where-in he reviewed it more thoroughly than most of the games on this list.. Take That "ya broke your own rule!" Nerds.
 

pequod

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Normally I think Yahtzee's GOTY lists are narrow-minded and a bit ignorant. I agree with this one though.
 

stringtheory

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Xsjadoblayde said:
I cannot plat Undertale without a PC. Something is telling me i am missing out. Oh well. Wouldn't be the first time. *sighs heavily and cracks open bottle of wine*
Do you have a mac? It runs on OSX. Or any laptop capable of running OSX or windows, a steam account, and $10? Then you can run Undertale. The game could probably run on a mobile device too considering how simple the graphics are