Discuss and Rate the Last Thing You Watched (non-movies)

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
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I've been watching Delicious in Dungeon, and while it's quite good it feels seriously hampered by not just its generic fantasy lore, but by nearly all the backgrounds being brick walls. I get it, it takes place in a dugeon most of the time, but have some imagination with the scenery, please.
 

Thaluikhain

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Sherlock Holmes - 10/10

This is the Grenada Television series that starred Jeremy Brett as Holmes and David Burke (later Edward Hardwicke) as Watson. Now by and large this is some of the best serialised Sherlock Holmes you're ever going to see. Jeremy Brett lives rent free in the head of many fans as the definitive performance of the great detective and I'll be honest, I see why. He's got that manic aloofness down pat but there's also a strong streak of humanity in him, even if its one Holmes doesn't fully appreciate himself aside from his obvious and genuine love for Watson. Even his more socially oblivious moments with Watson are just Holmes' eccentricity and never seem malicious.

Each episode runs a brisk pace, and each story is good fun to watch unfold. Burke is also credited as the Watson who helped bring the character back to his roots as an intelligent, capable man of action - as you'd expect an ex-military surgeon to be. Of the two men, Burke has the better build and physical presence for such a role but Hardwicke still has good bearing so it all works out. They're not quite the devilish handsome and physical powerhouse that is Jude Law, but considering what had come before, both were amazing.


Now I do have complaints; the fight scene staging is just, godawful. Like they were wise to not show in any detail the final confrontation between Holmes and Moriarty because what snippets we did see were some of the most laughable shit I've ever seen. Now to the major villain: the actor playing Moriarty is entirely lacking in physical threat; looking to be at least ten years Brett's senior. An accomplished martial artist like Holmes should have been able to take him apart with ease. Also, his scheme is rather asinine and not worthy of a man described by Homes as 'The Napoleon of Crime' since it amounts to a foiled theft of gold and selling knock offs of the Mona Lisa. Say what you will of the Guy Ritchie films action movie approach to the property, basically starting World War 1 and cornering the market on arms and material is a scheme worthy of the appellation, to say nothing of the fine physical duel between them both.

But, set that aside, and this show is supremely worth the watch. I cannot recommend it highly enough.
Seconded, Brett is Sherlock Holmes.

Other adaptations should change the names and put "inspired by" instead of "based on". Though there are some good ones.
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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Devs (2020)

Science Fiction series by Alex Garland, 8 episodes long. Not to make any grand statements about a guy I only know from his work, but Garland clearly has a great fascination with the end of history. Almost all of his movies deal with apocalyptic events or their lead up or aftermath. But almost none of them quite as literally as Devs does.

Just outside of San Francisco is the campus of a powerful tech company called Amaya, a large statue of a young child ominously looming over it. And on that campus is a top secret laboratory that resembles an egyptian temple, its gilded interior containing a quantum computer that a small clique of programmers are attempting to utilize to see both the past and the future. After one of them attempts to smuggle information outside, he got killed by the company, leaving his girlfriend to investigate the truth of his death.

Devs is a very interesting series with a very interesting approach to science-fiction, depicting a near future at the cusp of its transition from rationality to a sort of techno-shamanistic age where humanity would have to accept the existence of an all knowing and all seeing machine. What I'm saying is, there are some mighty evocative ideas and mighty evocative imagery in Devs, the caveat being that most of them are concentrated at the beginning and the end of the series.

Devs core issue is that much of its middle part is dedicated to protagonist Lily investigating a murder mystery the viewer already knows the answer to. Not exclusively, of course, it also uses that time to flesh out a supporting cast of mostly interesting characters but it does feel like its more engaging metaphysical ideas take a backseat towards something that more closely resembles a not particularly exciting tech thriller. Make no mistake, once the grander ideas come back into focus and the show really gets into the "why" and "what for" of its cyber-hermetic experiments and CEO Forests obsession with them it really captured my attention.

I'm not claiming that what it's trying to say about determinism and free will is anything new or anything particularly bold but what it has is a sense of genuine awe towards the scope of its themes that lends them a sense of gravity that makes you actually want to think about them, rather than dismiss them as cliches. Garland's better works show some degree of respect for the old notion that advanced enough technology is indistinguishable from magic and Devs' basic idea of the computer as a powerful magical artefact used for divination, programmers as priests, studying its secrets and the laboratory as their temple is an endlessly compelling one.

I do think that Devs gets bogged down somewhat by its aforementioned pacing issues and too great a focus on the personal, rather than the bigger picture but I can't say I regret watching it. At its best it really nails that cerebral tone of high concept science fiction. It lacks the sense of escalation into the outright psychedelic of something like Serial Experiments Lain or the methodical peeling away of reality of something like World on a Wire but it does offer reasonably thought provoking and atmospheric modern take on that kind of curiously transhumanist material.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Devs (2020)

Science Fiction series by Alex Garland, 8 episodes long. Not to make any grand statements about a guy I only know from his work, but Garland clearly has a great fascination with the end of history. Almost all of his movies deal with apocalyptic events or their lead up or aftermath. But almost none of them quite as literally as Devs does.

Just outside of San Francisco is the campus of a powerful tech company called Amaya, a large statue of a young child ominously looming over it. And on that campus is a top secret laboratory that resembles an egyptian temple, its gilded interior containing a quantum computer that a small clique of programmers are attempting to utilize to see both the past and the future. After one of them attempts to smuggle information outside, he got killed by the company, leaving his girlfriend to investigate the truth of his death.

Devs is a very interesting series with a very interesting approach to science-fiction, depicting a near future at the cusp of its transition from rationality to a sort of techno-shamanistic age where humanity would have to accept the existence of an all knowing and all seeing machine. What I'm saying is, there are some mighty evocative ideas and mighty evocative imagery in Devs, the caveat being that most of them are concentrated at the beginning and the end of the series.

Devs core issue is that much of its middle part is dedicated to protagonist Lily investigating a murder mystery the viewer already knows the answer to. Not exclusively, of course, it also uses that time to flesh out a supporting cast of mostly interesting characters but it does feel like its more engaging metaphysical ideas take a backseat towards something that more closely resembles a not particularly exciting tech thriller. Make no mistake, once the grander ideas come back into focus and the show really gets into the "why" and "what for" of its cyber-hermetic experiments and CEO Forests obsession with them it really captured my attention.

I'm not claiming that what it's trying to say about determinism and free will is anything new or anything particularly bold but what it has is a sense of genuine awe towards the scope of its themes that lends them a sense of gravity that makes you actually want to think about them, rather than dismiss them as cliches. Garland's better works show some degree of respect for the old notion that advanced enough technology is indistinguishable from magic and Devs' basic idea of the computer as a powerful magical artefact used for divination, programmers as priests, studying its secrets and the laboratory as their temple is an endlessly compelling one.

I do think that Devs gets bogged down somewhat by its aforementioned pacing issues and too great a focus on the personal, rather than the bigger picture but I can't say I regret watching it. At its best it really nails that cerebral tone of high concept science fiction. It lacks the sense of escalation into the outright psychedelic of something like Serial Experiments Lain or the methodical peeling away of reality of something like World on a Wire but it does offer reasonably thought provoking and atmospheric modern take on that kind of curiously transhumanist material.
Devs is one of my favorite seasons of TV. It has an amazing monologue by Nick Offerman's character about death that perfectly describes it IMO even though the dialogue itself is playing off of quantum mechanic ideas of the show.

The moment my daughter was taken from me... it was as if I was instantly placed into two concurrent states. In one... I had a full understanding... that Amaya was gone. There was no doubt. No... hope. No holding onto anything. No going back. Just the certainty of her death. In the other, I had no comprehension of her death. It was an impossible thing. An implausible thing. Absurd. Vast. Meaningless. Untrue. It wasn't just that they were contradictory states. They were absolute states. Each was complete in itself, leaving no room for the other. But... I held them both. And still do. There was nothing anyone could say to me. There's nothing I can say to you.
 

Old_Hunter_77

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Devs (2020)

Science Fiction series by Alex Garland, 8 episodes long. Not to make any grand statements about a guy I only know from his work, but Garland clearly has a great fascination with the end of history. Almost all of his movies deal with apocalyptic events or their lead up or aftermath. But almost none of them quite as literally as Devs does.

...
How the heck have I not heard of this show? I love hi-concept overly serious sci-fi b.s. I'll have to check it out. Does it have a satisfying ending (since it's only 1 season? I mean was it a planned miniseries or was it just canceled?)

Wife and I finished Fallout and I agree with the internet consensus, it's great.

We then started The Sympathizer which is the current HBO main Sunday night prime time show. The reason we are checking it out is simply because we love the novel it's based on.

The novel/show is about a biracial double agent during the time of the Vietnam war as he lives in the US to continue spying on some secret police general. But it's really one of those novels that is like an excuse for the author to expound on his observations about race, culture, politics, etc, which sounds like it could be an academic tedium except it's funny because it's also a satire, or dark comedy, or whatever is the appropriate term. It feels like this epic sweep of a novel but is normal length so it's sort of breezy while still being serious about its themes.

So the show is 8 episodes total, the third aired last night, we watched 2 so far. It seems to be focusing more on the irreverance and "dark comedy" aspect than the deeply personal and tragic elements. It feels like watching American Hustle or Wolf of Walf Street or The Gentlemen, one of those movies where they show you things happening with stylized action and montages. It certainly makes it more "watchable" but less impactful, so it's a trade-off.

The most famous cast member is the white guy- Robert Downy Jr, who actually plays the role of all the major white guys. Which I guess is supposed to drive across how "American white guy" presents itself in the life of our main character or something? I dunno... it's weird and his accents and hair styles are a lot to deal with. I like the actor- heck, we all do- but so far this aspect ain't working for me so much.

The other famous person in a minor role is Sandra Oh. I do like when casting is like this- a couple of big names to pop in but let the newbies carry the show.

So far the show is... pretty good, I guess? It's fun to watch even if/when they show torture or murders or whatever. But it's also continuing a trend for me this year with book adaptions- the book is better! And I'm really not THAT guy that always says that because I can think of examples where the book is not better in my example (even if those examples are primarily films that Stanely Kubrick directed).
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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How the heck have I not heard of this show? I love hi-concept overly serious sci-fi b.s. I'll have to check it out. Does it have a satisfying ending (since it's only 1 season? I mean was it a planned miniseries or was it just canceled?)
Oh no, it wasn't made with a continuation in mind or anything, it wraps everything up in one season.

Devs is one of my favorite seasons of TV. It has an amazing monologue by Nick Offerman's character about death that perfectly describes it IMO even though the dialogue itself is playing off of quantum mechanic ideas of the show.

The moment my daughter was taken from me... it was as if I was instantly placed into two concurrent states. In one... I had a full understanding... that Amaya was gone. There was no doubt. No... hope. No holding onto anything. No going back. Just the certainty of her death. In the other, I had no comprehension of her death. It was an impossible thing. An implausible thing. Absurd. Vast. Meaningless. Untrue. It wasn't just that they were contradictory states. They were absolute states. Each was complete in itself, leaving no room for the other. But... I held them both. And still do. There was nothing anyone could say to me. There's nothing I can say to you.
Yeah. Honestly, Offerman was great in it. I can take or leave the protagonist and her friend, performance wise, but him and Allison Pill carried it hard.
 
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Gordon_4

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Gerry Anderson's UFO


If you ever want to see a show with a fucking identity crisis that somehow still manages to be compelling and exciting, its this one. The plot concerns SHADO: Supreme Headquarters Alien Defence Organisation and its commanding officer, Cmdr. Straker and their ongoing mission to defend planet Earth from a race of unknown and unnamed aliens who keep attack Earth, seemingly for the purpose of pinching body parts and cover up the existence of the same. If you've ever played X-Com and are going "Hey, wait a minute", well, now you know what its creators watched as kids.

Being a Gerry Anderson show, the big action bits and complex sets - Interceptors and jets going after the UFOs, the big submarine, moonbase and many tracked vehicles - are handled by their legendary miniatures team which means for the relatively modest budget the show had, you get plenty of shit blowing up. But what kept it from being slightly silly family fare is that all the characters are played by actual actors on sets. And it doesn't shy away from some of the shady shit such an organisation gets up to: the second episode was about a test pilot who got himself in between SHADO and UFO and took pictures and all the ways they kept trying to make him just forget what he saw. In the end it looked like Straker was going to shoot him, but then ends up recruiting him.

Yet it still got all these very 70s overtones like skin tight outfits for its many female characters, some truly appalling wigs that its space station women wear on duty, office politics of the day, a submarine screw who wear string vests, and of course the late sixties to early seventies interpretation of what the eighties would look like.

I recommend it, but looking at it now, its definitely an odd duck.
 

Thaluikhain

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Chaosium's Graveyards of Arkham series, which is on youtube here

Well, done, though I wish they'd do the Epic NPC man thing of lots of smaller episodes, not fewer really long ones.
 

Phoenixmgs

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2 examples of very well produced sleaze

Wolf Like Me - 2/10 or 8/10

I think it was Johnny mentioned this show a few weeks back. Wolf Like Me is in the category of "so bad it's good". It's about a woman that's a werewolf and starts dating a guy and gets pregnant, and just about every logistical issue with being a werewolf and dating and getting pregnant is hilariously explored (will she give birth to a human, a wolf, a werewolf, a litter of wolves?). She even demanded to the doctor that she can't get a c-section because the recovery is too long and what if she bursts open when she transforms into a werewolf during recovery. The dialogue is so bad that I had to pause every episode at least once from laughing at it so much. The show also tries to do super serious like Oscar-baity subjects out of the blue (more so the first season) when just a second ago the werewolf chick is running from her date because the guy picked an Italian restaurant...

Also, there's no such thing as spoilers with this show because everything that you think of that could possibly happen to a werewolf in any situation will happen. For example:
- werewolf, guy, and daughter go to some super remote location to go camping and plan to come back the morning before the full moon. Of course, the car doesn't start and there's no cell service
- will werewolf chick give birth at or near a full moon and then have to leave the hospital in a rush? you know it!

---

The Woman in the House Across the Street from the Girl in the Window - 2/10

I checked this out because of the ridiculous name and it stars Kristen Bell (loved her since Veronica Mars). This is literally the worst murder mystery I've ever seen, you'll never guess the killer because it's so fucking stupid. However, it does lead to perhaps the most ridiculous and hilarious fight scene ever. The episodes are only like 20 mins and the show moves fast and breezes along. You almost think the show might be doing something with playing with reality because of how off everything just is. For example, Kristen Bell has a handyman on basically retainer that is constantly fixing her mailbox through the entire show, then you find out her ex-husband hired him when they were still married to fix the mailbox and he's still fucking fixing it everyday. But nothing comes out of that besides they use the handyman as a red herring in the murder mystery at one point. I guess it's worth watching if you want some high quality sleaze to make fun of, like Kristen Bell, and want to see the most ridiculous fight scene ever at the end.
 
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Dirty Hipsters

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I've been watching Delicious in Dungeon, and while it's quite good it feels seriously hampered by not just its generic fantasy lore, but by nearly all the backgrounds being brick walls. I get it, it takes place in a dugeon most of the time, but have some imagination with the scenery, please.
I don't know that I agree. The different floors do have their own designs that aren't just brick walls.

The first 2 episodes were mostly outside, the living paintings in episode 6 brought some additional backgrounds and areas, episodes 7-9 were the underground lake area, and half of episode 10 was the above ground. 8/17 episodes aren't just brick wall backgrounds.

The problem is that the last 7 or so episodes are as you describe, because they've spent all of those episodes on a single floor, which makes it difficult to introduce variety.
 

Casual Shinji

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I don't know that I agree. The different floors do have their own designs that aren't just brick walls.

The first 2 episodes were mostly outside, the living paintings in episode 6 brought some additional backgrounds and areas, episodes 7-9 were the underground lake area, and half of episode 10 was the above ground. 8/17 episodes aren't just brick wall backgrounds.

The problem is that the last 7 or so episodes are as you describe, because they've spent all of those episodes on a single floor, which makes it difficult to introduce variety.
I watched I think the first 5 episodes, but so far I haven't gotten a real sense of the world other than there's a dungeon. And even the dungeon itself feels rather undefined. I get that it's probably relying on the audience being aware of the general Fantasy lore it operates under (elves, dwarves, dragons), but a lot of the fun (and immersion) of a fantasy world is getting to explore some of its reaches. And with Delicious in Dungeon so far I haven't gotten much of that.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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I watched I think the first 5 episodes, but so far I haven't gotten a real sense of the world other than there's a dungeon. And even the dungeon itself feels rather undefined. I get that it's probably relying on the audience being aware of the general Fantasy lore it operates under (elves, dwarves, dragons), but a lot of the fun (and immersion) of a fantasy world is getting to explore some of its reaches. And with Delicious in Dungeon so far I haven't gotten much of that.
You'll get more lore on the world and how the dungeons work as time goes on. It gets sprinkled in here and there throughout the episodes and there's a bigger explanation around episode 10.
 
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PsychedelicDiamond

Wild at Heart and weird on top
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Baby Reindeer (2024)

Autobiographical dramatization of scottish comedian Richard Gadd's traumatic experiences with stalking and sexual abuse, starring himself.

One of those quintessentially british productions that are simultaneously rather gloomy and depressing, while also always capable of getting a chuckle out of the sheer absurdity of the situations it presents. Gadd plays his fictionalized self, here named "Donnie Dunn", a struggling stand up comedian working at a London bar as his day job. When, out of sympathy, he decides to buy a lonely middle aged woman a cup of tea, she develops an unhealthy infatuation with him that threatens to ruin his life.

Baby Reindeer is a show many will no doubt find difficult to watch, not only because it deals with some very personal and very intimate situations, but also because it puts great focus on people making some very unwise, often downright self destructive, decisions. Probably to the point some will turn it off in anger at all the ways its characters manage to dig themselves deeper when it seems like simply doing nothing could have resolved their issues.

Well, that's the point though, isn't it? It's a show about people who are very mentally unwell and do very mentally unwell things. Gadd himself is clearly the centerpiece of it all and it's a testament to either his bravery or his self loathing that he manages to portray himself as this pathetic. While the majority of the series deals with the ways being a stalking victim affects his life, a lot of his behaviour is contextualized in an episode midway through that deals with the way he was sexually taken advantage of by a wealthy television writer who gave him drugs and promised him a career in show business.

It's hard not to view Baby Reindeer as a therapeutic exercise to some extent. Gadd mulls over his difficult feelings towards his abuser, towards his stalker, towards his own difficulties coming to terms with his own bisexuality, towards the way all of it destroyed his relationship... it is, by all means, an inherently egocentric project. How much you'll get out of it depends on how relatable and sympathetic you find some the situations presented. And how much you can empathize with the ways people cope with them.

Make no mistake, the cast brings all of it to life marvelously. Gadd really throws himself at this opportunity to reenact some of the lowest points of his life while his opposite Jessica Gunning as his stalker Martha brilliantly portrays a person who can go from harmlessly irritating, to creepy, to genuinely pitiable in the same scene. Nava Mau, playing the put upon girlfriend also deserves a mention, struggling to put up with a partner who seems incapable of working through his baggage.

But in the end the question is whether anything about these sad, pathetic, stupid people and the frustratingly counterproductive ways they try to work through their issues feels relatable to you. And... yeah, some of this actually got me. I know what it's like to deny and dismiss your own trauma, even when it's eating away at you. And I know what it's like to be the weird person sitting alone at a bar and forming an unhealthy attachments to someone who's nice to you out of pity. Not to pretend I've experienced anything close to what the people in this series did, but at least I felt some familiarity to it.

Not to talk this up as some great drama, it has utilitarian cinematography and ends, as productions based on true stories tend to, on a rather arbitrary point. But I do think it portrays some pretty uncomfortable aspects of human behavior very candidly and has a pair of stellar lead performances.
 

Old_Hunter_77

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2 examples of very well produced sleaze

The Woman in the House Across the Street from the Girl in the Window - 2/10

I checked this out because of the ridiculous name and it stars Kristen Bell (loved her since Veronica Mars). This is literally the worst murder mystery I've ever seen, you'll never guess the killer because it's so fucking stupid. However, it does lead to perhaps the most ridiculous and hilarious fight scene ever. The episodes are only like 20 mins and the show moves fast and breezes along. You almost think the show might be doing something with playing with reality because of how off everything just is. For example, Kristen Bell has a handyman on basically retainer that is constantly fixing her mailbox through the entire show, then you find out her ex-husband hired him when they were still married to fix the mailbox and he's still fucking fixing it everyday. But nothing comes out of that besides they use the handyman as a red herring in the murder mystery at one point. I guess it's worth watching if you want some high quality sleaze to make fun of, like Kristen Bell, and want to see the most ridiculous fight scene ever at the end.

I think my wife and I watched 2 episodes of this (she is also a huge Veronica Mars fan, we both loved The Good Place, and Kristen Bell is to me first and foremost Lucy from the first three Assassin's Creed games, so we are fans) and were like wtf lol nope, too stupid.


Meanwhile we're almost done with Devs so thanks guys or reminding me of this. After we started watching it I realized it was something I was aware of at one point, meant to watch it, didn't, then forgot about it. It's definitely a mood and that's enough for me.
 
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Ag3ma

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Gerry Anderson's UFO

If you ever want to see a show with a fucking identity crisis that somehow still manages to be compelling and exciting, its this one.
I loved that as a child. Sorry, but I also loved the purple wigs.

I feel that UK television was source of a load of fascinating SF ideas in the 60-80s, unfortunately often also critically compromised by a welter of problems. Often connected with rarely having the budgets to do them justice, and the higher budgets tending to be financially unsustainable even as they were insufficient.
 
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The Roast of the GoAT, Tom Brady on Netflix

Might also be the same for roasts. Let’s just say if an AI can ever come up with this shit, we’re probably pretty close to being fucked.
 

Gordon_4

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I loved that as a child. Sorry, but I also loved the purple wigs.

I feel that UK television was source of a load of fascinating SF ideas in the 60-80s, unfortunately often also critically compromised by a welter of problems. Often connected with rarely having the budgets to do them justice, and the higher budgets tending to be financially unsustainable even as they were insufficient.
Oh I love the shit out of Gerry Anderson’s shows. UFO is no different but there is no doubt some very 70’s quirks and tonal clashes. But it’s still a damn amazing show. Once I’m done with it I’m going on to Space 1999.
 

Gordon_4

The Big Engine
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Tried watching that. It was intended to challenge Dr Who, apparently. Yeah, good luck with that. (Also, it got moved to another timeslot, so it wasn't in direct competition)
I can’t see how. What little I know about Space 1999 makes it seem like it’s tonally and thematically different to Dr. Who in every possible way.
 

Thaluikhain

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I can’t see how. What little I know about Space 1999 makes it seem like it’s tonally and thematically different to Dr. Who in every possible way.
More or less, yeah, but I believe it was the intent of the creators to do a sci-fi show (with something like 7 times the budget of Dr Who, though that isn't saying much), put it on at the same timeslot in Britain, and take sci-fi fans from the BBC. Which, needless to say, didn't work.