Why 99% of (Mainstream) Movies are Garbage

[BrawlMan]

Avatar is one of those weird things that was really popular for a hot minute then everyone forgot about.

Glad I did not go to theaters to watch the movie. I waited until DVD, and even then, I was watching my brother's copy. The only ones that I know that bothers to remember are big bro and parents. And even then, that's a big stretch. They have not seen the movie since 2010. I loved it better when it was called Dances With Wolves, Pocahantas, Ferngully, and Princess Mononoke. Especially the last movie on the list; it has a thing I like to call actual grey areas, characters and motivations, and not being so black and white, nor up its own ass.

Inception was cool but I saw it during drink night.

I saw on torrents once, and never bothered with it again.

Oscar movies tend to be more of sold then well regarded.

The exact problem. All part of the self sucking hype machine.

Anyway, listen to these dulcet tones and be calmed.

I already have the song on my laptop, but thank you. I appreciate the gesture.

 

[Worgen]

Glad I did not go to theaters to watch the movie. I waited until DVD, and even then, I was watching my brother's copy. The only ones that I know that bothers to remember are big bro and parents. And even then, that's a big stretch. They have not seen the movie since 2010. I loved it better when it was called Dances With Wolves, Pocahantas, Ferngully, and Princess Mononoke. Especially the last movie on the list; it has a thing I like to call actual grey areas, characters and motivations, and not being so black and white, nor up its own ass.

I think you should have seen it in theaters. Some movies are much better with the full theater experience, especially the 'summer blockbusters'.

 

[Hawki]

Which I personally find really funny, since I don't know a single person who has ever actually SEEN Citizen Kane, but everyone knows "oh yes, it's totally the greatest film of all time." Yeah, I question that. It's just cultural conditioning at this point.

Raises hand as someone who's seen Citizen Kane, who genuinely thinks it's an excellent movie, and yet still laughs at the corresponding Family Guy take on it.

Avatar is one of those weird things that was really popular for a hot minute then everyone forgot about.

Everyone says they've forgotten about Avatar, yet if I say "James Cameron's Avatar," they'll easily remember it, only to say that no-one remembers it.

 

[BrawlMan]

I think you should have seen it in theaters. Some movies are much better with the full theater experience, especially the 'summer blockbusters'.

You're not the first person to tell me. I have no regrets. Besides, I got to see Princess Mononoke when I was 10 back in 1999 in theaters. I consider it a bigger win. Also, my first Miyazaki/Studio Ghibli movie.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Honestly, one of the greatest cinematic experiences I've ever had in a theater was Pacific Rim.

Look, Hollywood found out that you can make a billion dollars by making a movie that most people mostly kinda enjoy. It's the Rotten Tomatoes effect. Which is why most big movies are bombastic, focus-tested, blended mayonnaise. A hand full are good, most are bad, and 40 years from now the Turner Classic Movies effect will kick in and we'll only remember the great ones, leading to our 70 year old selves remembering how movies were better back in the day than the modern era's mostly bland offerings.

AAA games have the same problem.

 

[Worgen]

Everyone says they've forgotten about Avatar, yet if I say "James Cameron's Avatar," they'll easily remember it, only to say that no-one remembers it.

Oh, I remember a lot of what happened in Avatar, but my point by saying that is that it kinda left the cultural zeitgeist really quick for something that was that big.

You're not the first person to tell me. I have no regrets. Besides, I got to see Princess Mononoke when I was 10 back in 1999 in theaters. I consider it a bigger win. Also, my first Miyazaki/Studio Ghibli movie.

I saw Princess Mononoke in theaters also, twice actually. Once in a little specialty theater and once in a normal one after it got a true wide release.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Oh, I remember a lot of what happened in Avatar, but my point by saying that is that it kinda left the cultural zeitgeist really quick for something that was that big.

Is that not common nowdays? The Harry Potter and LotR films still get people talking a lot, but most recent(ish) films/franchises seem to quickly disappear once they are finished.

Nobody seems to mention The Hunger Games anymore, and Twilight seems most forgotten.

 

[Worgen]

Is that not common nowdays? The Harry Potter and LotR films still get people talking a lot, but most recent(ish) films/franchises seem to quickly disappear once they are finished.

Nobody seems to mention The Hunger Games anymore, and Twilight seems most forgotten.

It certainly is becoming more common, but Avatar is one of the first times I remember it really happening. I mean this was the highest grossing movie in the world and after a year if not less the conversation about it just poofed into nothing.

 

[Xprimentyl]

It certainly is becoming more common, but Avatar is one of the first times I remember it really happening. I mean this was the highest grossing movie in the world and after a year if not less the conversation about it just poofed into nothing.

I think it’s largely because so many films nowadays are just trying to one-up with star power and CGI, they all kinda get muddled in the wash. I’ve noted it before here recently, there have been several movies of late that I forget having seen within a week of doing so because there’s just so much mediocrity out there, none of it stands out and it all wants to be part of a series of films or larger “universe” creating ironically very vague and bland showings. Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Avatar, etc. they were exceptional for their time, but now, EVERY movie is doing what they did (and doing so worse,) and we’re numb to it.

 

[Worgen]

I think it’s largely because so many films nowadays are just trying to one-up with star power and CGI, they all kinda get muddled in the wash. I’ve noted it before here recently, there have been several movies of late that I forget having seen within a week of doing so because there’s just so much mediocrity out there, none of it stands out and it all wants to be part of a series of films or larger “universe” creating ironically very vague and bland showings. Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Avatar, etc. they were exceptional for their time, but now, EVERY movie is doing what they did (and doing so worse,) and we’re numb to it.

I think its actually something more mundane. I think we are getting a higher average quality of movies so the "greats" stand out less and don't last as long in the public conscience since something just as good if not better will come out soon.

 

[Agema]

That’s reductive and unfair and frankly I expected better from you.

It is, in a nutshell, why many people do not think films like Citizen Kane are good films. I think the one word summary would be "boring".

I remember reading about some movie which had a famous and very long "tracking shot" ('Snake Eyes'?) Film-makers and critics were aglow with how technically impressive it was. Do you think the average moviegoer would notice? My guess is not. So there is this level that things are going on in film-making that many film-watchers don't recognise or appreciate or care about to assign it value.

The second is simply subjective taste. A great deal of people go to the movies for action excitement. Pretty much every single movie that has made over $1 billion at the box office is either an action movie (likely with superheroes) or a kids movie. Plus the odd film like Titanic, which is probably best characterised as a romance, although with that whole sinking bit is also an action movie - disaster movie subtype.

I'm very wary of accusations of snobbery. There is literally no good reason to look down on a well-crafted action / horror / etc. movie as if good fight choreography, incitement of tension are somehow not real achievements requiring skill. Just like no-one should need to feel embarrassed about saying Britney Spears made some really great pop songs, as horrifically uncool as it may sound in some more pompous indie/rock circles (never mind the high-minded fans of jazz / classical). But "snobbery" in reverse is also an accusation from people who don't appreciate certain forms of quality, particularly those associated with perhaps more high-minded things.

I recall saying in a group of SF afficionados that I was sometime frustrated with the shitty writing of a lot of SF&F books: bad characterisation, poor language etc. One guy said "So what you're saying is that you're a snob." Because apparently I'm doing it wrong to think there can be more to fantasy literature than peasant finds magic sword kills dark lord becomes king marries princess. I think part of it is a sense of inferiority, a defence of preceived lack of sophistication and being looked down on: "You sound like you're (trying to be) cleverer than me so I'm taking you down a peg". It's better to just say you don't give a shit if the author can barely write, that's not what you value. There is room for everything, and we can all have our own tastes. It's okay to say you didn't like something that is in some ways brilliant, or you liked something that is in ways awful. No-one needs to say that if they didn't like something then it is therefore rubbish and denigrate others who did appreciate it.

 

[BrawlMan]

Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Avatar, etc. they were exceptional for their time, but now, EVERY movie is doing what they did (and doing so worse,) and we’re numb to it.

​

I think its actually something more mundane. I think we are getting a higher average quality of movies so the "greats" stand out less and don't last as long in the public conscience since something just as good if not better will come out soon.

​

 

[Mister Mumbler]

 

[Cicada 5]

A buddy just IM'd me on facebook with this very same clip. A movie with the resources of, say, Start Wars, should never fail. That they messed up the sequel trilogy, badly, should cause someone to be facing charges for negligence.

The Last Jedi was the highest grossing movie of 2017 and the ninth highest grossing film of all time. All three sequels were billion dollar hits, even the third one which is the most maligned. I'd love to have a "failure" like that on my resume.

 

[Thaluikhain]

The Last Jedi was the highest grossing movie of 2017 and the ninth highest grossing film of all time. All three sequels were billion dollar hits, even the third one which is the most maligned. I'd love to have a "failure" like that on my resume.

Get one of the most popular movie franchises ever behind you before your failure then. The next Fantastic Beasts or whatever movie can be as awful as it wants, but because it's technically Harry Potter, it'll rake in zillions.

 

[Cicada 5]

Get one of the most popular movie franchises ever behind you before your failure then. The next Fantastic Beasts or whatever movie can be as awful as it wants, but because it's technically Harry Potter, it'll rake in zillions.

When something proves to be financially successful, those who hate will always come up with any reason as to why it made money and ignore the obvious answer that the majority of people liked it.

 

[deleted20220709]

DELETED

 

[Cicada 5]

This is true. It is also true that if a real stinker is released as an official entry into an already established franchise it tends to do well anyway, as people are ready to take a chance on brand recognition alone. That's how certified stinkers like Rise of Skywalker and Alien 3 can have really good revenue numbers and also have terrible viewer and critic ratings.

Rise of Skywalker has an 86% audience score on RT.

 

[gorfias]

When something proves to be financially successful, those who hate will always come up with any reason as to why it made money and ignore the obvious answer that the majority of people liked it.

Wait, what? The majority of people liked it? And this is after Rotten Tomatoes no doubt manipulates this to look better than it really is.

You don't think that an IP bought for $4 billion should have wanted to do much more? These movies could have made double, triple what they made. This was a softball pitch that could have resulted in adoration, merchandise sales, successful theme parks. Instead, you have a number of stalled, delayed or outright canceled projects, merchandising crashing and failing theme parks. It resulted in 1/2 the fan base thinking this nothing but an incompetent open hate letters to men, boys, and star wars fans in general. Maybe the TV shows can repair the damage.
And money is not the only measure of success. Game of Thrones, for instance, was huge. But it botched the landing so badly that it badly harmed its place as part of the cultural conversation. More stalled projects. I'm not sure that one can ever be fixed.

It's easy to feel that way when it seems most of what's come out of late it simply a re-hash, if not an outright re-make, of stuff we've been seeing for decades. I'm not a movie snob by any stretch, but even I can appreciate the lack of originality in the recent films industry. Very little has come out in YEARS that I felt the need to see because I was genuinely intrigued, and most of the stuff I was intrigued by underwhelmed because it tried to toe a line of satisfying too many demographics, i.e.: a bland porridge can be spiced up to each individual's liking, but that doesn't make porridge an inspired meal.

Hollywood needs a makeover. Stop pandering to nostalgia and take some pride in itself by making somethings new. I'll be so glad when they stop looking to the past for inspiration and take some risk by doing things that don't rely on tired tropes, remakes and for God's sake, can we STOP planning trilogies already??? If your idea is shit out the gate, no one wants to wait around for 6 years while you finish squeezing out that turd!

To his credit, Christopher Nolan states that when making the Batman movies, he approached each on to be a success on its own. Sure, Begins ends with Batman looking at a Joker card, but it is meant more as an Easter egg than a teaser for a sequel. But the Snyder JLA? It is dying for a sequel but I have to think, it just threw a ton of crap against the wall with no idea how it would fit into anything. They'll have to work in reverse, for instance, to explain why Batman would need the help of the Joker to stop Darkseid.

Well planned sequels can work though. Much of the MCU, particularly Infinity War and End Game mostly pulled it off.

Where does Hollywood go from here? The MCU, for instance, is moving toward getting into the Multiverse. I'm looking forward to seeing where that takes us.

 

[Cicada 5]

Wait, what? The majority of people liked it? And this is after Rotten Tomatoes no doubt manipulates this to look better than it really is.
View attachment 3854
You don't think that an IP bought for $4 billion should have wanted to do much more? These movies could have made double, triple what they made. This was a softball pitch that could have resulted in adoration, merchandise sales, successful theme parks. Instead, you have a number of stalled, delayed or outright canceled projects, merchandising crashing and failing theme parks. It resulted in 1/2 the fan base thinking this nothing but an incompetent open hate letters to men, boys, and star wars fans in general. Maybe the TV shows can repair the damage.
And money is not the only measure of success. Game of Thrones, for instance, was huge. But it botched the landing so badly that it badly harmed its place as part of the cultural conversation. More stalled projects. I'm not sure that one can ever be fixed.

So we had one movie that was critically acclaimed, another that was liked by audiences more than critics and both pulled in ridiculous amounts of cash.

There is no rational metric by which this can be considered a failure by anyone other than an armchair accountant. The Star Wars fan base has been a chaotic mess since the prequels, with damn near everything this franchise has done being treated like World War 3 by a loud, obnoxious minority. These are the same people who were all too happy when Disney bought the franchise from Lucas only to declare him their lord and savior when they were once again dissatisfied with what they got (not that it actually mattered).

As for merchandise, sales have actually been up despite there being no Star Wars movie since 2019.

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-movie-show-toy-sales-2020-increase/