National Guard called into Minneapolis

[Dwarvenhobble]

Looks like we got two different narratives on our hand:

Well here's the evidence of basically a crew going round enforcing law and order


oh and the Police got called in but as the zone said they didn't want police the police obliged by not going there and letting the autonomous community handle it.

 

[Hawki]

Protester critically injured after protesters pull down confederate monuments and the monument lands on his head

You know, I'd say karma's involved, but then again it's a Confederate statue, so maybe not.

The autonomous zone of Capital Hill that people had named the state of Chaz has become a failed independent nation before even gaining independence and has been abandoned

Y'know, I knew this was going to end badly, but Christ!

 

[Revnak]

Since CHAZ has been brought up, maybe look at a take from a journalist who is, uh, there and an actual journalist rather than Andy Ngo, provable fraudster.
Edit- before I get someone calling Robert a LARPing Antifa terrorist, I’ll go ahead and point out his credentials as an actual conflict journalist who covered the retaking of Mosul. He’s not exactly some random leftist blogger. He has literally covered wars.

 

[CM156]

You know, I'd say karma's involved, but then again it's a Confederate statue, so maybe not.

I think that if these statues need to be taken down, it's important that it's done safely. After all, if you act in haste, you can repent at leisure.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Since CHAZ has been brought up, maybe look at a take from a journalist who is, uh, there and an actual journalist rather than Andy Ngo, provable fraudster.
Edit- before I get someone calling Robert a LARPing Antifa terrorist, I’ll go ahead and point out his credentials as an actual conflict journalist who covered the retaking of Mosul. He’s not exactly some random leftist blogger. He has literally covered wars.

Ah Frank West = He's covered wars you know.

But in more seriousness the Autonomous Zone / Chaz so far is or was autonomous except for.

Food
Water
Power
Finance
Communication
Supplies
Refuse services

So the main things it's autonomous for is it's own law enforcement which has already come under criticism and government where one of the founders how had to quit due to being an abuser.......

 

[Hawki]

Ah Frank West = He's covered wars you know.

World War Z being among them.

 

[Trunkage]

Ah Frank West = He's covered wars you know.

But in more seriousness the Autonomous Zone / Chaz so far is or was autonomous except for.

Food
Water
Power
Finance
Communication
Supplies
Refuse services

So the main things it's autonomous for is it's own law enforcement which has already come under criticism and government where one of the founders how had to quit due to being an abuser.......

Is this one of those 'it's not perfect so we should utterly destroy it' things?

Also, 'had to quit' is a feature, not a bug. If someone had done something similar, AMY, there wouldn't have been any riots. But no, 20 further incidents later, ghdy finally got someone (elsel killed and set America on fire.

Had to quit would have stopped people like Bush, Clinton, Trump or Obama gain office and America would be a whole lot better off

 

[Trunkage]

World War Z being among them.

Isn't Frank West from Dead Rising

 

[Trunkage]

I'm pretty sure people are tired of me saying this by now, but the southern strategy is a modern myth. The Republican Party did not change policies to cater to racists, the southern states didn't really move to the GOP until basically the current millennium, it's a lie through and through.

Was Nixon remotely like Reagan?

 

[Hawki]

Isn't Frank West from Dead Rising

Yes - I'm referring to the quote, and putting it in the context of him fighting and killing so many zombies, it might as well be a war.

 

[Kwak]

You really don't seem to understand how this works. Everyone except communists hate communism. The communists know this, so they pretend to be something else. That's the game being played on you.

Edit: the black flag is concealing a red flag. You can't miss that imagery. Black is a front, red is what they are.

Do you know where your kids are?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Way I figure it, we've got two conflicting stories. So who do we trust?
Do we trust the saps that uncritically parrot every obvious police "Concrete Milkshake" lie
Or do we trust literally anybody else?
(The NYPD's tried the ol' "photograph concrete samples from construction yards and try to claim that they're disguised ice cream treats" trick again. And got prominent headlines parroting their obvious lies, again.)https://nypost.com/2020/06/08/nypd-finds-concrete-covered-as-ice-cream-at-george-floyd-protests/

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Is this one of those 'it's not perfect so we should utterly destroy it' things?

Also, 'had to quit' is a feature, not a bug. If someone had done something similar, AMY, there wouldn't have been any riots. But no, 20 further incidents later, ghdy finally got someone (elsel killed and set America on fire.

Had to quit would have stopped people like Bush, Clinton, Trump or Obama gain office and America would be a whole lot better off

Had to quit because people wouldn't donate to fund the Zone thinking she was in charge.


It's no-where near perfect it's an idealist place with little to not practicality in terms of it surviving more than a month.

Also the 1 incident so far is in 24 hours of the place existing and involved a guy getting his glasses broken then being told it was his fault he was set upon for not following the rules. (The rule he broke was allegedly spraying over a persons existing spray tag on a wall).


Also it's 1 incident people know of so far.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Way I figure it, we've got two conflicting stories. So who do we trust?
Do we trust the saps that uncritically parrot every obvious police "Concrete Milkshake" lie
Or do we trust literally anybody else?
(The NYPD's tried the ol' "photograph concrete samples from construction yards and try to claim that they're disguised ice cream treats" trick again. And got prominent headlines parroting their obvious lies, again.)https://nypost.com/2020/06/08/nypd-finds-concrete-covered-as-ice-cream-at-george-floyd-protests/

Well we could look at raw pictures.

Here's a closer look at their communal food garden this was posted to the Autonomous Zone's subreddit

 

[deleted20220709]

DELETED

 

[Agema]

You really don't seem to understand how this works. Everyone except communists hate communism. The communists know this, so they pretend to be something else. That's the game being played on you.

Really? I've known dozens of communists, hard socialists and anarchists over the years, and they're perfectly happy to tell you what they believe in. In fact, they are remarkably earnest and passionate about their politics. They start political parties, advertise their activities, groups and societies on posters and flyers around the city. You can pop along and meet them, they're open and happy to talk (they do, after all, want to convince people to their cause). These forums (old and new) have had Communists, who post with Communist avatars and tell you they're Communists.

Maybe it's just that where you live there aren't any, so they may seem quite exotic and secretive.

There are certainly a handful of hard-core activist groups which you'd not be able to easily join, because they do stuff the police would be very keen to squash. There are some leftwing groups that are effectively cults. But even something like Antifa operates pretty much in plain sight, that you could get in with if you were interested with little trouble. In fact, I'll bet Antifa is shot through with state surveillance and undercover cops, because they're so relatively easy to join it barely even would qualify as infiltration.

 

[Revnak]

Really? I've known dozens of communists, hard socialists and anarchists over the years, and they're perfectly happy to tell you what they believe in. In fact, they are remarkably earnest and passionate about their politics. They start political parties, advertise their activities, groups and societies on posters and flyers around the city. You can pop along and meet them, they're open and happy to talk (they do, after all, want to convince people to their cause). These forums (old and new) have had Communists, who post with Communist avatars and tell you they're Communists.

Maybe it's just that where you live there aren't any, so they may seem quite exotic and secretive.

There are certainly a handful of hard-core activist groups which you'd not be able to easily join, because they do stuff the police would be very keen to squash. There are some leftwing groups that are effectively cults. But even something like Antifa operates pretty much in plain sight, that you could get in with if you were interested with little trouble. In fact, I'll bet Antifa is shot through with state surveillance and undercover cops, because they're so relatively easy to join it barely even would qualify as infiltration.

I for one will happily admit to being a Marxist through and through. I am not an anarchist though, and resent the implication.
Edit- like, this has also always been the case. DSA has fucking membership roles. Most groups during the civil rights era were pretty open about being socialists, Huey Newton didn’t pretend he wasn’t a Maoist. Most of these guys fled to Cuba for a reason, they weren’t hiding who they are. Anti-Fascist groups can be more secretive about membership, but that goes back to most anarchist groups trying to function as secret societies because Bakunin has a weird fetish for it, and they certainly don’t hide being anarchist organizations, the flag’s right there.

 

[tstorm823]

Really? I've known dozens of communists, hard socialists and anarchists over the years, and they're perfectly happy to tell you what they believe in. In fact, they are remarkably earnest and passionate about their politics. They start political parties, advertise their activities, groups and societies on posters and flyers around the city. You can pop along and meet them, they're open and happy to talk (they do, after all, want to convince people to their cause). These forums (old and new) have had Communists, who post with Communist avatars and tell you they're Communists.

Maybe it's just that where you live there aren't any, so they may seem quite exotic and secretive.

There are certainly a handful of hard-core activist groups which you'd not be able to easily join, because they do stuff the police would be very keen to squash. There are some leftwing groups that are effectively cults. But even something like Antifa operates pretty much in plain sight, that you could get in with if you were interested with little trouble. In fact, I'll bet Antifa is shot through with state surveillance and undercover cops, because they're so relatively easy to join it barely even would qualify as infiltration.

a) You're not in America. Of course you and the people you know have a different view of communism. People on this forum are also often not American, and are effectively anonymous on top of that.
b) I'll bet Antifa is shot through with surveillance now, but 4 years ago not so much.

Was Nixon remotely like Reagan?

Yes.

 

[Trunkage]

Yes.

And how was he the same? different?

 

[Agema]

a) You're not in America. Of course you and the people you know have a different view of communism. People on this forum are also often not American, and are effectively anonymous on top of that.

No, but I'd suggest the average US Communist is going to be more concerned about being socially ostracised, harassed by the authorities and shot by right-wing yahoos than conducting a secret conspiracy to subvert the USA. it's not like there are Soviets planting agents any more.

b) I'll bet Antifa is shot through with surveillance now, but 4 years ago not so much.

True, but Antifa was barely heard of four years ago. Trump was both a massive recruitment drive for it and also inspiration for right wing rallies that Antifa turn up to counter-demonstrate. That said, I would never underestimate just how much the police and security services are keeping tabs on organisations like that.