Dr. Fauci “not convinced” coronavirus developed naturally

[Agema]

And if he didn't want to?

The point here is that whether it was classified is neither here nor there, because he could just unclassify it. Therefore, the matter begins and ends on Trump either wanting it released or not. All other considerations are moot.

That said, I don't think he had evidence - or at least, not significantly more than public domain. What Trump did all throughout his presidency was read / be told stuff, and then repackage bits of it in public addresses to make him sound cleverer and better informed. It's the ultimate licence for a bullshitter to say what they like, to tell everyone something and then demand they can't argue because he's seen evidence they don't have rights to see.

I think what happened is that he was briefed, the brief put forward pros and cons for various scenarios natural or artificial, and Trump went up to a podium and like the big, fat, lying child he is, morphed that into "CHINA MADE IT I'VE SEEN THE EVIDENCE BECAUSE I'M SPECIAL".

 

[tstorm823]

The point here is that whether it was classified is neither here nor there, because he could just unclassify it. Therefore, the matter begins and ends on Trump either wanting it released or not. All other considerations are moot.

That said, I don't think he had evidence - or at least, not significantly more than public domain. What Trump did all throughout his presidency was read / be told stuff, and then repackage bits of it in public addresses to make him sound cleverer and better informed. It's the ultimate licence for a bullshitter to say what they like, to tell everyone something and then demand they can't argue because he's seen evidence they don't have rights to see.

I think what happened is that he was briefed, the brief put forward pros and cons for various scenarios natural or artificial, and Trump went up to a podium and like the big, fat, lying child he is, morphed that into "CHINA MADE IT I'VE SEEN THE EVIDENCE BECAUSE I'M SPECIAL".

You're not responding to what I'm saying. Public officials and news broadcasters heard Trump say "CHINA MADE IT I'VE SEEN THE EVIDENCE BECAUSE I'M SPECIAL" and then chose to declaratively report the opposite. That is not healthy.

 

[Agema]

You're not responding to what I'm saying. Public officials and news broadcasters heard Trump say "CHINA MADE IT I'VE SEEN THE EVIDENCE BECAUSE I'M SPECIAL" and then chose to declaratively report the opposite. That is not healthy.

Less healthy than a president with an unparallelled record of lying, who makes an incendiary claim he can't back up?

You think the media shouldn't challenge power when it speaks untruths?

 

[tstorm823]

You think the media shouldn't challenge power when it speaks untruths?

I don't think anyone, especially media, should challenge untruths with their own untruths. This is an example of the media challenging claims of unknown truth value with untruths. The media went out of their way to be worse than Trump.

 

[Trunkage]

Not if it was classified.

You.... think Trump cares if something is classified if keep it hidden is going to make him lose an argument? That is a very long stretch

I'd more readily believe that his underlings didn't tell him so he didnt break classification

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

The point here is that whether it was classified is neither here nor there, because he could just unclassify it. Therefore, the matter begins and ends on Trump either wanting it released or not. All other considerations are moot.

That said, I don't think he had evidence - or at least, not significantly more than public domain. What Trump did all throughout his presidency was read / be told stuff, and then repackage bits of it in public addresses to make him sound cleverer and better informed. It's the ultimate licence for a bullshitter to say what they like, to tell everyone something and then demand they can't argue because he's seen evidence they don't have rights to see.

I think what happened is that he was briefed, the brief put forward pros and cons for various scenarios natural or artificial, and Trump went up to a podium and like the big, fat, lying child he is, morphed that into "CHINA MADE IT I'VE SEEN THE EVIDENCE BECAUSE I'M SPECIAL".

And again if it would provide evidence as to the identity of a US agent possibly even in the Lab?

There's potentially some possible evidence that would be included in the leak which would lead to the person behind the evidence being exposed so even Trump could see the potential risk of declassifying the evidence.

 

[Thaluikhain]

You.... think Trump cares if something is classified if keep it hidden is going to make him lose an argument? That is a very long stretch

I'd more readily believe that his underlings didn't tell him so he didnt break classification

I remember a webcomic where the characters were sad because if the US military had evidence of aliens Trump would have blabbed about it.

 

[tstorm823]

You.... think Trump cares if something is classified if keep it hidden is going to make him lose an argument? That is a very long stretch

You think Trump viewed the media saying the wrong thing to disagree with him as "losing an argument"?

 

[Agema]

I don't think anyone, especially media, should challenge untruths with their own untruths. This is an example of the media challenging claims of unknown truth value with untruths. The media went out of their way to be worse than Trump.

I literally could not give a shit about an argument that boils down to "One woman on CNN said something therefore all the media are awful".

 

[tstorm823]

I literally could not give a shit about an argument that boils down to "One woman on CNN said something therefore all the media are awful".

The New York Times White House correspondent, who moonlights as a CNN analyst, is a touch more influential than "one woman on CNN". She, among others, accepted the 2018 Pulitzer Prize for National Reporting for her coverage of Donald Trump. You can't so easily minimize that person saying "well, we reported the wrong thing because Trump said the opposite and made it political".

 

[Agema]

The New York Times White House correspondent...

Who cares? All I'm reading on these claims is a lot of subjective opinion and very little fact about what Maggie Habermann said and meant from people who are out to get her.

 

[CriticalGaming]

 

[Agema]

So Fauci was in fact correct. The video merely edits him to appear otherwise.

 

[Trunkage]

You think Trump viewed the media saying the wrong thing to disagree with him as "losing an argument"?

You think Trump saying the wrong thing as 'winning an argument'?

Yep. We get it. You dont like the MSM and that excuses Trump.

To me, as a person who believes Covid might have come from a lab, the biggest argument against my assumption is that Trump had no proof to back up his claims. If he bad any, even circumstial or wrongly misinterpreted (i.e he got fact checked) he would have blurted out something.

I.e. The whole incident about this time a year ago was just him saying random to attack people. Mostly to distract from his performance. It had nothing to do with labs or Covid. He was just being vindictive and petty. But sure, the MSM attacked back which is just the worst.

That being said, all the US intelligence agencies said there was 'no evidence'... which is probably the biggest piece of evidence that Trump actually did have evidence. Because trusting those fuckers is a bad idea. Like, the MSM didn't make up that there was 'no evidence'. You could say they believed the wrong people.... but there isn't a great way to fact check this problem

 

[Agema]

Like, the MSM didn't make up that there was 'no evidence'.

There is no significant evidence that SARS-CoV-2 came from a lab. Just a lack of evidence confirming its origin, and people insinuating it came from a lab with circumstantial claims and conjecture.

 

[ObsidianJones]

And how much harm is done by people being disenfranchised by official messaging and not believing actual science later?

The Injecting Bleach into yourself to get rid of the virus Science?

The "Just Take it" Science about Hydoxychloroquine?

The "Coronavirus is no worse than the common Flu Science?

The "No more greater testing because it is motivated by Politics" Science?

I mean, Trump himself knew the science. He knew how bad it was. And he willfully sacrificed 588,421 (at the time of me writing this out, check here[url] for updates) fellow citizens to play it down, as he said in his own words.

Are you interested in that harm?

Everyone here is saying it is well known it was man made, yet back in February 2020 the genome of SARS-CoV2 had been catalogued and showed no signs of human tampering but only the kind of alterations one would expect from natural evolution. [URL]https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/22221751.2020.1733440

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9.pdf

I swear, I will never understand how quickly the wind turns on these things. Especially when no new information has surfaced to seriously refute previous scientific findings.

I freely admit to speculation. But I do this after this very forum... well, the past forum discussing the tight lipped nature of how they handled the intial stages of the outbreak in China, how the deaths and bodies were being erased, and how journalists like Li were being disappeared for actually telling the truth. That is not the actions of a people who were just concerned of the welfare their people.

Given the past of this country, I don't know, but I believe. I'm great to be proven wrong. I'm happy if I am. I'm just crazy then and we can move on.

 

[fOx]

If this came from a Chinese lab for which China had already prepared vaccines, why didn't China have a vaccine ready? Several Western companies had vaccines ready and tested before China did, and China's vaccine was significantly less effective (in fact, it only just squeaked past minimal standards for approval by the narrowest of margin). Bluntly, Russia - probably less technologically advanced than China in biotech - developed a better vaccine from a standing start in the same timeframe. So there is a fundamental inconsistency in claiming SARS-CoV-2 came from a lab, and that these lab experiments facilitate advanced vaccine development in the way you say.

Because china doesn't care if a segment of their population dies off, since they're overpopulated anyway. Look at who the virus targeted. The elderly. Right now, chinese banks are able to make massive investments in foreign companies and markets because their older civilians have invested their saving in the banks. But there's a problem here. China has very little in the way of social services. Elderly people have to save money for retirement. Right now, they're investment generation is getting ready to reach retirement age. When that happens, there will be a massive withdrawal from chinese banks as retirees remove their money. This will slow chinese growth, and hurt them economically. But what happens if that generation dies off in large numbers? Perhaps due to a pandemic? Either their younger heirs recieve the money, or it goes to the chinese government. It secures the money for another generation of banking. Meanwhile, that same virus spreads on a global scale, lowering stock prices, and crashing the world economy. Which then allows china to invest at a far higher rate, and control the global economy. All of this plays into the hands of the chinese government. I mean, look at their response. They bought up masks on mass from other countries, and then resold them at a higher price. And they were defective! So they capitalized on the pandemic while also sabotaging us to maximize casualties. Not to mention their involvement with the WHO. The saddest part of this is that the chinese people are the ones who had to pay for their governments machinations. And the anti-chinese racism that spread in america because if the virus. Deplorable.

Finally, no sane country prepares a biological weapon of this sort. As we have seen with Covid-19, such viruses wreak havoc globally: it poses a vast risk to one's own country. The modern "gain of function" experiment is very new, it has not been going on for decades. Any viruses pre-~2010 would need to be artificially manipulated in ways that would be obvious from their genetic code, and no-one has found such a virus doing the rounds. Where there have been lab leaks, they are of "old" viruses - variants from the past that have been stored for analysis, not new and altered ones.

And yet we've had multiple viral "outbreaks" from china for decades.

A quick look through history tells us these sorts of pandemics keep occurring. Again, there are a lot of viruses out there in humans, in animals, mutating and evolving all the time. Many of these are a few mutations away from being transmissable to humans, and of those inevitably some will eventually develop the potential for a Covid-19 level of infectiousness. Every unit time, nature rolls a million billion-sided dice. Every once in a while, it rolls a 1 and we have a new major health concern. That's just the way it is.

And yet, what caused so many of these pandemics? Chemical warfare. What caused the black death? The Mongols using infected carcasses to infect a besieged city. It's the same here, except instead of a city, it's the global economy. The advantage of viral warfare is that it is also economic warfare that plays to chinas benefit.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

That didn't trouble you when you wanted to cite a gastrointestinal surgeon's opinion on virology, why worry about it here?

And, I'm guessing that opinion ended up being true because there's very few things I've been wrong about. I look at multiple sources and arguments before making a statement on something. The doctor I'm talking about here talks to many experts in the field so I'm leaning to it being true but I won't make a statement on just that alone. Plus, I really don't care THAT much about this so I really don't care to put in the time to look into much.

So Fauci was in fact correct. The video merely edits him to appear otherwise.

Nope, you can watch the unedited version if you want. Paul asked about funding the lab and Fauci wouldn't even answer the question asked jumping to gain of function research and money. Paul claimed it's just theater having previously infected and vaccinated people wearing masks and Fauci disagreed saying "but.. but... the VARIANTS!!!" Paul got Fauci asking about cross reactive immunity and Fauci said there was no evidence of that even though his own organization, NIH, has that on their website.

The Injecting Bleach into yourself to get rid of the virus Science?

The "Just Take it" Science about Hydoxychloroquine?

The "Coronavirus is no worse than the common Flu Science?

The "No more greater testing because it is motivated by Politics" Science?

I mean, Trump himself knew the science. He knew how bad it was. And he willfully sacrificed 588,421 (at the time of me writing this out, check here[url] for updates) fellow citizens to play it down, as he said in his own words.
Are you interested in that harm?

When was injecting bleach a public health message? Also, that article talks about Trump and the UV light thing, which is actually a thing, Healight, that was actually studied for use on covid.

And there's still no data showing Hydroxychloroquine doesn't work and many countries actually do use it for standard covid treatment.

Again, it's no worse than the flu is not official public health messaging. I'm not saying Trump is cleared of saying bullshit but one person, that's not even a doctor, saying something and the CDC saying something are 2 different things.

The US never used the proper ways to test though. Trump might be trying to message that there, but who really knows as he rarely makes any sense.
Michael Osterholm was a Biden advisor on covid and said this about testing near the same time of the Trump testing fiasco.

And what about the harm of the CDC/Fauci saying "masks bad" then "masks good" or the CDC waiting until MAY 7TH of THIS FUCKING YEAR to say the virus was airborne? The public lost all faith in official public messaging, just go to Youtube and just about any coronavirus main network news video over the last several months has more dislikes than likes. The President saying something stupid and the actual health agencies and top health expert misleading the public are 2 very different things.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

I remember a webcomic where the characters were sad because if the US military had evidence of aliens Trump would have blabbed about it.

It's weird this idea Trump can't keep secrets when no-one knew about the Stormy Daniels affair until he ran for election.

The Injecting Bleach into yourself to get rid of the virus Science?

The "Just Take it" Science about Hydoxychloroquine?

The "Coronavirus is no worse than the common Flu Science?

The "No more greater testing because it is motivated by Politics" Science?

I mean, Trump himself knew the science. He knew how bad it was. And he willfully sacrificed 588,421 (at the time of me writing this out, check here[url] for updates) fellow citizens to play it down, as he said in his own words.
Are you interested in that harm?

I freely admit to speculation. But I do this after this very forum... well, the past forum discussing the tight lipped nature of how they handled the intial stages of the outbreak in China, how the deaths and bodies were being erased, and how journalists like Li were being disappeared for actually telling the truth. That is not the actions of a people who were just concerned of the welfare their people.

Given the past of this country, I don't know, but I believe. I'm great to be proven wrong. I'm happy if I am. I'm just crazy then and we can move on.

1) Hydoxychloroquine is used in bleaching agents so it is the bleach
2) https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m2378
3) https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...ican-physicians--surgeons-aaps-301078986.html

Late in the disease, antivirals are unlikely to help because patients are dying of organ damage and blood clots, possibly due to immune overreaction.

• The SARS-CoV-2 virus may infect the heart, and this may cause arrhythmias.
• Doses of HCQ in some trials, such as the UK's "Recovery" trial and the multinational World Health Organization (WHO) Solidarity trial may be toxic or even lethal, and much higher than recommended for any medical condition. The cumulative dose of this long-acting drug in the "Recovery" trial (9.6 grams) is four times as high as used in India.
• A Brazilian study published in JAMA is being investigated by Brazilian governmental authorities for ethical reasons: investigators were giving seriously ill patients a lethal dose of chloroquine. HCQ (hydroxychloroquine) is much safer than chloroquine but like all drugs is toxic in too-high doses.

To be clear I'm not saying it works but Trump saying it was being looked into was not wrong and one of the main studies being cited as an example of how it didn't work at the time in the media was the Brazilian one where they were found to be giving patients lethal doses of it.
4)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...a15166-4444-11ea-b5fc-eefa848cde99_story.html

But this year, a new coronavirus from China has focused attention on diseases that can sweep through an entire population, rattling the public despite the current magnitude of the threat. Clearly, the flu poses the bigger and more pressing peril; a handful of cases of the new respiratory illness have been reported in the United States, none of them fatal or apparently even life-threatening.

Coronavirus is scary, but the flu is deadlier, more widespread

A new case of coronavirus was confirmed Saturday in Massachusetts. But the flu is more dangerous and much deadlier, infecting millions of Americans.

eu.usatoday.com

The flu is a far bigger threat to most people in the US than the Wuhan coronavirus. Here's why.

Five people in the US have been diagnosed with the coronavirus that started in China. Since October, at least 10,000 Americans have died of influenza.

www.businessinsider.com

That enough sources yet?

They were wrong. Pretending Trump was somehow uniquely stupid in his take isn't really showing how much of the rest of the media had been pushing that exact claim.

5) Considering the line of attack at the time was Trump mishandling the pandemic yes testing was being used as a political tool because t would mean more cases and that would help push the claim Trump was screwing up. Some News agencies had a running tickers of case and death counts and guess what CNN and other more left leaning places suddenly ditched these when Biden got in. The US knew the virus had got in and was loose testing it only tells you the scale of it it doesn't fight it for you.

6) Trump's claim for downplaying it was to try and stop panic and people rushing to stock up. Which still happened to an extent but can you really imagine everyone including those who listen to Trump rushing to the store to stock up on everything and the damage it would do? People buying up everything including masks which would be needed by hospital staff etc......

 

[Trunkage]

It's weird this idea Trump can't keep secrets when no-one knew about the Stormy Daniels affair until he ran for election.

Yah what?

You think no one knew before 2016?