Tokyo Mirage Sessions FE Encore Impressions - All of these games are the same.

CriticalGaming

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What is the deal with the....I dunno what to call it so I'll just call these things the AA-Anime game. While these games aren't AA priced, they feel like they are made on a AA budget at best. You all know how I felt about Scarlet Nexus, but if you look back you might also remember my impressions of some other AA-Anime games like Conception 2, Ys 8, and Tales of Berseria.

All of these games are technically JRPG's but I've been calling them anime games because they all seem built around that similar structure in which, if I had any knowledge of anime, they feel more like playable ads for a television show rather than trying to be complete games.

Tokyo Mirage Sessions has the exact same feel. A crazy anime premise set up very quickly at the beginning of the game, a build up to the main gameplay loop, and then off you go. What makes TMS feel like most of the other "anime" games is that everything is so piece meal. The world map is just a menu of areas that either lead you to a single room, or a very small "street" in which you can find two shops on, or you can select whatever your active dungeon is.

The biggest problem with the games is the dungeons imo. Usually they are all either exactly the same with different colors, or slightly different (maybe randomized) with different colors. Dot Hack was like this, Persona 4 was like this, Conception was like this, Nights of Azure was like this. And it always feels so low effort. I can partly understand if the title was a budget title, but these games are $60 full priced fuckers. Tales of Arise, Ys 9, Scarlet Nexus, all of them are full priced games that in my opinion don't offer full priced experiences. Everything about the core design here is disconnected from everything else. City maps, world maps, combat maps, are all extremely limited and frankly boring.

Some games like Ys 9 are slightly better at covering it up by changing the location. Sometimes a prison, or a cave, or a castle, or whatever. But the problem remains the same as you zone into the "combat area" the map is very boring with nothing to really see or explore as even the walls themselves are basically barren textures. None of the locations every feel like parts of the same world, and some anime games actually write alternate worlds into the zones to give this kind of thing an "excuse" which still doesn't explain away the blandness.

I brought up Persona, and that is an example of a series that does it right imo. Namely Persona 4 and, even more so, 5. These games do have you go into an alternate dimension and in the case of 4 all the dungeons are just recolors of the same randomized idea. However with 5 every dungeon was handcrafted to fit each dungeon theme. The reason why Persona 4 pulls it off is because the game's narrative is fantastically told, the "real world" is more open even if you zone from spot to spot, each spot has a lot to do so they feel more dense and alive. Persona's cram as much as possible into their limited spaces.

So enough rambling.

Tokyo Mirage Sessions then. It's a persona clone. Except inside of the power of your inner demons used to fight monsters in the "otherworld" you use the power of being an extremely cute popstar to battle monsters in the "otherworld". Each character has a special weapon they unlock which manifests in the form of some sort of warrior (their Persona's basically), they each have an element and a specialty that you can use to combo with other characters to deal massive damage to the monsters. While you don't collect all the Pokemon in the game, they do drop their "essences" which can be used to evolve your weapon into a better version. Which already makes the combat less interested because you don't really have the strategic options that Persona would have with all the different monster loadouts to bring into battle. So instead it plays out like a Pokemon battle with an extremely limited team. And once you figure out which attacks from each of your party members work for the monsters in whatever dungeon you are in, you basically spam them until you reach the next dungeon.

Speaking of dungeons, this game really really wanted to be Persona. So while the Dungeons are themed differently and occasionally have a flavored puzzle, you still will end up in the same hallways with the same enemy shadow things around every corner. It's like a Persona 5 dungeon, but poorly done, because there is not as much thought put into the theme of what the dungeon is about and why it is the way it is. It's just a dungeon, go through it, fight the boss at the end so we can all go the fuck home.

I will say the popstar outfits and the attacks are fun to pull off, despite the repetitiveness, and it is an interesting concept in idea. So far in my 5 hours of playtime they haven't really evolved it beyond evil portals suck out people's talent and there are monsters to fight because this is a video game. Let's just say I'm cautiously optimistic? I do find the turn-based JRPG combat much more fun and interesting that the sluggish attempt at action RPG's from Scarlet Nexus, and I like the themes around the story better. TMS so far is a better game but I still don't think it was worth the full price.

I think that's my biggest gripe maybe. These games shouldn't be full price, because they are not put together well enough to be worth that cost. I don't care if the games are still 60 hours, if it is 60 hours of the same shit over and over again then it's actually a 10 hour game with 6 reskins.
 

meiam

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Wait they're selling it full price? It's like 5 years old...

Yeah straight of scarlet nexus to jumping into this you're going to have an anime overload. Quality isn't that high since its selling itself as a crossover between SMT and fire emblem, so minimal effort was put in, its mostly banking on brand recognition.

I just went trough digimon cyber sleuth and it has the same problem, every dungeon is just the same blue vaguely matrix like environment, to make matters worse your constantly going back to the same few dungeon. I'm also playing legend of mana and there the problem is the exact opposite, every dungeon is beautiful and unique, but the combat is an absolute slog to get trough (thankfully you can just turn encounter off).

imo if you want JRPG like game nowaday you're better off looking into the indie market than big Japanese developer, similar level of quality for a quarter of the price.
 

CriticalGaming

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Wait they're selling it full price? It's like 5 years old...

Yeah straight of scarlet nexus to jumping into this you're going to have an anime overload. Quality isn't that high since its selling itself as a crossover between SMT and fire emblem, so minimal effort was put in, its mostly banking on brand recognition.

I just went trough digimon cyber sleuth and it has the same problem, every dungeon is just the same blue vaguely matrix like environment, to make matters worse your constantly going back to the same few dungeon. I'm also playing legend of mana and there the problem is the exact opposite, every dungeon is beautiful and unique, but the combat is an absolute slog to get trough (thankfully you can just turn encounter off).

imo if you want JRPG like game nowaday you're better off looking into the indie market than big Japanese developer, similar level of quality for a quarter of the price.
It isn't just this though. I've played several games this year alone with the exact same problem. Ys 9, for example, was so awful I couldn't bring myself to struggle through it long enough to deal with it's boringness. It's also why I can't seem to get through a Tales game, even though Tales games are more put together and play more like Final Fantasy games with action combat.

I think the game I played the longest was Conception because I just liked making babies with all the waifu's.......I should play that again at some point.
 

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Wait they're selling it full price? It's like 5 years old...
Because there are plenty of desperate people wanting to pay top dollar for it. Especially if it was on a console that didn't sell that well to begin with originally.

What is the deal with the....I dunno what to call it so I'll just call these things the AA-Anime game. While these games aren't AA priced, they feel like they are made on a AA budget at best. You all know how I felt about Scarlet Nexus, but if you look back you might also remember my impressions of some other AA-Anime games like Conception 2, Ys 8, and Tales of Berseria.

All of these games are technically JRPG's but I've been calling them anime games because they all seem built around that similar structure in which, if I had any knowledge of anime, they feel more like playable ads for a television show rather than trying to be complete games.

Tokyo Mirage Sessions has the exact same feel. A crazy anime premise set up very quickly at the beginning of the game, a build up to the main gameplay loop, and then off you go. What makes TMS feel like most of the other "anime" games is that everything is so piece meal. The world map is just a menu of areas that either lead you to a single room, or a very small "street" in which you can find two shops on, or you can select whatever your active dungeon is.

The biggest problem with the games is the dungeons imo. Usually they are all either exactly the same with different colors, or slightly different (maybe randomized) with different colors. Dot Hack was like this, Persona 4 was like this, Conception was like this, Nights of Azure was like this. And it always feels so low effort. I can partly understand if the title was a budget title, but these games are $60 full priced fuckers. Tales of Arise, Ys 9, Scarlet Nexus, all of them are full priced games that in my opinion don't offer full priced experiences. Everything about the core design here is disconnected from everything else. City maps, world maps, combat maps, are all extremely limited and frankly boring.

Some games like Ys 9 are slightly better at covering it up by changing the location. Sometimes a prison, or a cave, or a castle, or whatever. But the problem remains the same as you zone into the "combat area" the map is very boring with nothing to really see or explore as even the walls themselves are basically barren textures. None of the locations every feel like parts of the same world, and some anime games actually write alternate worlds into the zones to give this kind of thing an "excuse" which still doesn't explain away the blandness.

I brought up Persona, and that is an example of a series that does it right imo. Namely Persona 4 and, even more so, 5. These games do have you go into an alternate dimension and in the case of 4 all the dungeons are just recolors of the same randomized idea. However with 5 every dungeon was handcrafted to fit each dungeon theme. The reason why Persona 4 pulls it off is because the game's narrative is fantastically told, the "real world" is more open even if you zone from spot to spot, each spot has a lot to do so they feel more dense and alive. Persona's cram as much as possible into their limited spaces.

So enough rambling.

Tokyo Mirage Sessions then. It's a persona clone. Except inside of the power of your inner demons used to fight monsters in the "otherworld" you use the power of being an extremely cute popstar to battle monsters in the "otherworld". Each character has a special weapon they unlock which manifests in the form of some sort of warrior (their Persona's basically), they each have an element and a specialty that you can use to combo with other characters to deal massive damage to the monsters. While you don't collect all the Pokemon in the game, they do drop their "essences" which can be used to evolve your weapon into a better version. Which already makes the combat less interested because you don't really have the strategic options that Persona would have with all the different monster loadouts to bring into battle. So instead it plays out like a Pokemon battle with an extremely limited team. And once you figure out which attacks from each of your party members work for the monsters in whatever dungeon you are in, you basically spam them until you reach the next dungeon.

Speaking of dungeons, this game really really wanted to be Persona. So while the Dungeons are themed differently and occasionally have a flavored puzzle, you still will end up in the same hallways with the same enemy shadow things around every corner. It's like a Persona 5 dungeon, but poorly done, because there is not as much thought put into the theme of what the dungeon is about and why it is the way it is. It's just a dungeon, go through it, fight the boss at the end so we can all go the fuck home.

I will say the popstar outfits and the attacks are fun to pull off, despite the repetitiveness, and it is an interesting concept in idea. So far in my 5 hours of playtime they haven't really evolved it beyond evil portals suck out people's talent and there are monsters to fight because this is a video game. Let's just say I'm cautiously optimistic? I do find the turn-based JRPG combat much more fun and interesting that the sluggish attempt at action RPG's from Scarlet Nexus, and I like the themes around the story better. TMS so far is a better game but I still don't think it was worth the full price.

I think that's my biggest gripe maybe. These games shouldn't be full price, because they are not put together well enough to be worth that cost. I don't care if the games are still 60 hours, if it is 60 hours of the same shit over and over again then it's actually a 10 hour game with 6 reskins.

These type of AA Anime games do nothing for me. I get the appeal, but I'm seeing why I tend to avoid them nor bother doing a full playthrough.
 
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Elvis Starburst

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Ys 9, for example, was so awful I couldn't bring myself to struggle through it long enough to deal with it's boringness.
Dang, really? I had a blast with this game myself. Though the dungeon design visually is definitely a step back from Ys 8. Which, speaking of, you mentioned you had some impressions of Ys 8, but I couldn't find the thread that mentions it? I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on that game by comparison
 
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CriticalGaming

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Dang, really? I had a blast with this game myself. Though the dungeon design visually is definitely a step back from Ys 8. Which, speaking of, you mentioned you had some impressions of Ys 8, but I couldn't find the thread that mentions it? I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on that game by comparison
Might have been on the old forums.

I played Ys8 on the Switch around launch I believe. I don't know how much I can remember off-hand, I do remember never finishing it though.

Let's see, I remember the setting on the island and I remember liking the idea of exploring the island to find survivors and each one you saved did something to open a new portion of the map by expanding your camp. Some people would allow you to craft, or cook, or some such other thing that meant you could explore more of the map. The combat was okay, it was generic action JRPG combat that was fine but unremarkable. Honestly I think the reason i dropped the game was that the story simply wasn't interesting, they try to sell you on the mystery of the island and the problem of getting saved from being shipwrecked but really it didn't have much story at all. It was go explore until you save a new survivor, open new parts of map, rinse repeat....In fact I think the main cast of Ys9 are the same as the shipwrecked folks from Ys8, but im not 100% on that.
 

CriticalGaming

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This is because it's an SMT/Fire Emblem crossover.
Is it? I literally have no idea. I've never played a Fire emblem (never will) nor have I played an SMT game, though I did buy SMT 3 remasters on Switch.
 

09philj

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That I knew, but I thought you meant that Tokyo Mirage Sessions was also a spin-off.
Yeah it is. IIRC Tokyo Mirage Sessions is a bit more like Persona than mainline SMT, although Persona itself is very similar to mainline SMT to being with. (Persona's easier though.)
 
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CriticalGaming

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Yeah it is. IIRC Tokyo Mirage Sessions is a bit more like Persona than mainline SMT, although Persona itself is very similar to mainline SMT to being with. (Persona's easier though.)
I'll be playing my first SMT game soon, Any tips. I've heard they are fucking hard.
 

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This game was always a very curious case study of bad marketing. One day Nintendo announced that a crossover between FE and SMT was in the works and then years went by without a single shred of news. When the game finally emerged from the darkness it turned out to have an incredibly heavy pop idol theme and not a lot of Fire Emblem to go with it.

Especially the proud focus on the pop idol theme turned me straight off.
 

CriticalGaming

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This game was always a very curious case study of bad marketing. One day Nintendo announced that a crossover between FE and SMT was in the works and then years went by without a single shred of news. When the game finally emerged from the darkness it turned out to have an incredibly heavy pop idol theme and not a lot of Fire Emblem to go with it.

Especially the proud focus on the pop idol theme turned me straight off.
Funny enough, I think the pop idol theme has a lot of potential. I like the games like this and Persona where the core theme is something grounded. High school students, pop stars, are easier to digest for me than a super natural school that trains people to fuck mind-monsters.

It's a very outlandish setting though and I can see how it would turn people off.
 
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Thanks Escapist.
Anime doesn't ruin everything. Nor does it make everything better. It's the people behind it that counts of where it matters and where the intention lies. It will be no different than saying how Western animation ruins everything. I know it's mainly hyperbole and a clickbait, but they can tone it down.
 
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Elvis Starburst

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I played Ys8 on the Switch around launch I believe. I don't know how much I can remember off-hand, I do remember never finishing it though.

Let's see, I remember the setting on the island and I remember liking the idea of exploring the island to find survivors and each one you saved did something to open a new portion of the map by expanding your camp. Some people would allow you to craft, or cook, or some such other thing that meant you could explore more of the map.
This part definitely set it out from the rest of the series and was a ton of fun. Ys 9 had the same kind of exploration, but it feel a little more for its own sake this time around.

The combat was okay, it was generic action JRPG combat that was fine but unremarkable.
Falcom has bolstered the gameplay to a decent degree since its earlier games, so I'm hoping Ys 10 will bring a bit of a revolution to the combat kinda like Ys 7 did now that the exploration has improved, cause it kinda needs it at this point. The old games were a lot simpler than it is now if you could believe it (Though mid 2000's game design probably played a part in that).

Honestly I think the reason i dropped the game was that the story simply wasn't interesting, they try to sell you on the mystery of the island and the problem of getting saved from being shipwrecked but really it didn't have much story at all. It was go explore until you save a new survivor, open new parts of map, rinse repeat....In fact I think the main cast of Ys9 are the same as the shipwrecked folks from Ys8, but im not 100% on that.
Adol and Dogi are mainstays of the whole series, but I don't believe there are any Ys 8 characters in Ys 9. I do know a few got mentioned, but they never actually showed up. Did you get to the other side of the island in 8 by chance? As soon as you do the story picks up a fair bit. Though, looking back, Ys 8's story was cool, but I agree it never really hit any major highs, save for maybe one or two spots. It was just consistently "good" in my eyes, but nothing much more.
Ys 9, on the other hand had a lot more peaks and dips. Where Ys 8's story curve was more of a flat line, Ys 9's was a bit more W shaped, thus making it a little less consistent. Lemme tell ya, though... the final act in Ys 9 kinda blew me away. For people who don't enjoy the series as a whole, it might not hit very hard. But for fans of Ys like me? Holy shit, it was kinda mind bending and had me seriously excited.

Ys 9 overall feels like more of a love letter to Ys fans than anything else. Falcom threw EVERYTHING at Ys 8 to make it one of their biggest and most polished games in the series, and I feel they did a good job of it. Ys 9, however, was making tons of callbacks to past adventures either through plot points, dialogue, or character interactions. But it did end up feeling slightly rushed in spots, and the final act kinda came at you suddenly. There definitely feels like a chapter's missing near the end.

Shame ya didn't care for it! But it's always nice to hear people Ys a shot after the series lived in obscurity for the longest time