Oh Look. He-Man

[TheMysteriousGX]

I mean, yeah, but Teela has an undercut now and is mad that literally all of her best friends, including her love interest and her "adoptive" dad, were deliberately lying to her for years. Then she only finds out when Adam (and the savior of the world who she also respected) bites it, *and* is asked by King Asshole to banish her lying "adoptive" dad from the kingdom of pain of execution and I can see a switch flipping and her going "fuck it, I'm out". That's a *lot* to have to process in what, 30 minutes? Good on her for not having a more violent mental break honestly.

Spoiler

That said, Adam getting stabbed ten minutes after resurrecting was goddamned hilarious. Pretty sure he isn't dead though, just gasping
Going full Yamcha. Timestamp 7m29s

 

[Chimpzy]

Saw it. Not homoerotic enough.

 

[happyninja42]

Okay so I was curious about this because I saw a big stink about Heman on Reddit. Never watched the show, always seemed gay in a professional wrestling oiled and shaved guys touching each other's bodies kinda way, have no stake in the canon or anything. Did not grow up with the show or toys.
But from what I can gather the big stink is that in a Q/A Kevin Smith, who I do really like and met once back stage at one of his standup shows here in town, said that the new show was very He-Man centric and he was a major character, and fans are accusing him of lying because He-man is actually killed in the first episode, only to be brought back to life and killed again in the last episode, and really its not about He-Man in the least, its like his sister's story or whatever. I mean sure? Who cares? Shouldn't the fans be happy they're getting more of their homoerotic cartoon show?

I think an important detail, is wording. "major character" does NOT mean protagonist. I mean the show is specifically NOT called He-Man: And the Masters of the Universe. Now, I do find it funny, that a character set up as sacrificing their life for the good of the planet, but still sort of maybe not dead, and if people just believe in him, and follow in his footsteps of behavior, is NOT a major character. Well, I think the church would have some words about that. He's basically become a christ like figure in the mythos. His presence in the story, is how he impacted others, in their lives as flashbacks, and as a guiding beacon going forward. How the world is impacted by his absence, etc.

That's fairly major IMO. But no, he's not the protagonist.

 

[BrawlMan]

I think an important detail, is wording. "major character" does NOT mean protagonist. I mean the show is specifically NOT called He-Man: And the Masters of the Universe. Now, I do find it funny, that a character set up as sacrificing their life for the good of the planet, but still sort of maybe not dead, and if people just believe in him, and follow in his footsteps of behavior, is NOT a major character. Well, I think the church would have some words about that. He's basically become a christ like figure in the mythos. His presence in the story, is how he impacted others, in their lives as flashbacks, and as a guiding beacon going forward. How the world is impacted by his absence, etc.

That's fairly major IMO. But no, he's not the protagonist.

For this type of trope, it's a combination of decoy protagonist for Adam, and then supporting protagonist for the sister. Neat.

 

[happyninja42]

For this type of trope, it's a combination of decoy protagonist for Adam, and then supporting protagonist for the sister. Neat.

Yeah, I mean I can kind of understand some level of annoyance. As it does brush up close to the "well, TECHNICALLY I never SAID it was about He-Man." from Kevin Smith. But, I don't think it was malicious, I just think he had a story he wanted to tell about...well basically The Death of Superman really, or at least that basic premise. And it needed to have He-Man not be in it for the start, to make the chaotic post-apocalypse setting going forward. Which is fine as a setting, one I personally really like. But, yeah the way they did it could be seen as someone of a rug-pull on the fan base. *shrugs* I'm fine with it, as I never really think any ensemble story should only be good if it has one person in it. If the rest are that badly written, that they can't have a good story without Priority A Guy, then, well you need to re-write it.

OT:
So just finished it, overall, it was pretty good. I think, given it's only 5 episodes, spent a LOT of time in transit, or just waiting around for something else to happen. I think more time could've been spent on exploring the characters, or their emotions about the situation, etc. But, eh, it was fine.

I had some genuine laughs at times, the cast all had moments to shine and be a badass to some degree or other. I liked how Teela's weapon is basically a swiss army knife of weapons, changing on the fly for whatever she needs it to be. Teela overall though, yeah she was a touch annoying. I won't say she was ALWAYS a problem, but whenever the topic of Adam/He-Man came up, she got really salty, really fast, and it did grate on the nerves a bit. I appreciate her having baggage to deal with, but, even after an episode ABOUT dealing with her baggage.....she hadn't dealt with any of it. Which, I mean if the resolution of the "Dealing with your shit" episode is "Shit is dealt with." Then....show that in her behavior later? But, eh, she was good for the most part.

I liked the rest of the cast, her friend, and engineer who....damn I honestly can't remember her name, Andra! That's her name. Yes, her. She was enjoyable. I thought she was a good counterpoint to Teela's salt.

My one big criticism, is how often they so blatantly used the Plotus Interruptus trope with Teela, but lots of things overall. It was just so blatantly "Nope! We're not telling you this thing right now! Look over here! Jangly keys! Jangly keys!"

7.5/10 - Had some issues, didn't make me choke up or get misty eyed very much for channeling my inner kids love of heroism. Mostly that happened in the opening episode a tad, but after that, it was just serviceable fare. I'll probably not load it back up for a re-watch, but I'll check out season 2 when it comes out.

Oh and @SilentPony , they didn't kill him at the end again. They just seriously wounded him. He's clearly laying there, from a gut wound (hardly a fatal injury in storytelling, compared to being atomized in a magical nuke), breathing and stuff. He just had to be interrupted for the cliffhanger ending.

 

[Piscian]

Unless Smith clearly stated it, I wouldn't make any assumptions about He-man not being a central figure in the show. This could easily have more twists in store. Transformers War for Cybertron did a lot of this kind of bait and switch.

 

[Jarrito3002]

I just finished it only 5 episode and pretty short and I all say is. I am very interested in what happens next after that cliff hanger so what it did even if some some was not executed the best did its job and has me hooked.

My personal favorite part of the what they did with Lockjaw and Triclops which I don't type out because I can't figure out the spoiler tag right now.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Also reminds me how little writers had to try back in the age of my innocence: "He's a guy with big metal fist... let's call him 'Fisto.' Wow, Steve, save some of the genius for the rest of us."

Well, could have called him Ferrus Manus and put him in charge of the Iron Hands.

Though, in the He-Man and She-Ra Christmas special, there's a monster called "The Beast Monster". And also a Snow Beast, which is a Beast that lives in the Snow. But the Beast Monster, that's another level of not trying.

 

[Dalisclock]

Watched the first episode.

So I'm gonna admit I barely remember watching the original show as a kid so I'm vaguely familiar with some of these characters and at some point I MIGHT have watched the live action 80's movie but I think I blocked most of that out(or those brain cells are in quarantine, either way). I don't have much in the way of expectation or even any real idea what's going on other then what's being presented and, it was entertaining enough so far. Super fucking cheesy, Like conan but also some people have lasers and one of the tanks has a giant hammer for some reason because, sure, why not? It's like I'm watching a heavy metal album cover in cartoon form and if that's the intent, it's doing a pretty good job of it.

I went into She-Ra not knowing much about that either and ended up really digging that(that fact my kid loves that show means I've seen it a couple times through now and I've yet to get tired of it). I'm also tempering my expectation that even though the two shows were originally connected, here they're not communicating ATM because of licensing and such, so I don't expect them to be terribly similar other then "Some have magic, some have laser tanks and the hero(ine) has a magic transformation sword because fantasy/sci-fi reasons".

Production values are pretty good. Voice acting is good(Mark Hamill is always a treat). Will keep watching just to see what happens(and because I finished Beastars, so I need something new to watch).

So outside of what other people on the internet are thinking or saying about the show, what were the thoughts of the people here about its plot points and such?

I've only seen the first episode so far(i'll catch up tonight) but it's fine so far. I have no idea if there's any lore to this show at all because I barely remember watching it as a kid and have had no interest in it since then, so something Fantasy/Sci-fi something something?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

 

[happyninja42]

Watched the first episode.

So I'm gonna admit I barely remember watching the original show as a kid so I'm vaguely familiar with some of these characters and at some point I MIGHT have watched the live action 80's movie but I think I blocked most of that out(or those brain cells are in quarantine, either way). I don't have much in the way of expectation or even any real idea what's going on other then what's being presented and, it was entertaining enough so far. Super fucking cheesy, Like conan but also some people have lasers and one of the tanks has a giant hammer for some reason because, sure, why not? It's like I'm watching a heavy metal album cover in cartoon form and if that's the intent, it's doing a pretty good job of it.

I went into She-Ra not knowing much about that either and ended up really digging that(that fact my kid loves that show means I've seen it a couple times through now and I've yet to get tired of it). I'm also tempering my expectation that even though the two shows were originally connected, here they're not communicating ATM because of licensing and such, so I don't expect them to be terribly similar other then "Some have magic, some have laser tanks and the hero(ine) has a magic transformation sword because fantasy/sci-fi reasons".

Production values are pretty good. Voice acting is good(Mark Hamill is always a treat). Will keep watching just to see what happens(and because I finished Beastars, so I need something new to watch).



I've only seen the first episode so far(i'll catch up tonight) but it's fine so far. I have no idea if there's any lore to this show at all because I barely remember watching it as a kid and have had no interest in it since then, so something Fantasy/Sci-fi something something?

A lot of the stuff you were seeing in that intro battle, is just straight up a montage of the various vehicles and toys you could buy, that any kid who played with He-Man, would recognize, and probably owned. It felt like Kevin animating what he saw in his head, as a kid, when he was smashing his action figures together. And it did indeed make me smile. I didn't own most of those vehicles, but I owned several of the figures, and I did recognize those vehicles from back then. So yeah, it just felt like "we're going to have a fun little bit at the start, that feels like pure kid joy with toys and imagination, and then I'm going to go into my plot." Which I felt was fitting.

.....and? The hell are you saying with this clip? He-Man never had an arching plot, and was designed to just give those life lessons at the end, completely out of context to any kind of story or character arc. So what is his "mistake" that is being mocked in this clip?

 

[Hawki]

.....and? The hell are you saying with this clip? He-Man never had an arching plot, and was designed to just give those life lessons at the end, completely out of context to any kind of story or character arc. So what is his "mistake" that is being mocked in this clip?

Basically Smith said the series would be explicitly about He-Man, and that the rumours of Teela being the actual protagonist were false.

However you feel about the series proper, it's clear that Smith explicitly lied.

 

[happyninja42]

Basically Smith said the series would be explicitly about He-Man, and that the rumours of Teela being the actual protagonist were false.

However you feel about the series proper, it's clear that Smith explicitly lied.

oh, he actually said that phrase? I mean he was quoted? Or is that just what people interpreted? If he did say that, then yeah, that's definitely him lying to redirect social media. Still, I don't really care? He-Man himself was never a really interesting character on his own? He was the muscle to get things done. I'm fine with him being this Big Deal, but from the sidelines, more in his impact on the world, than his direct actions.

Because frankly, if his Prince Adam, you know nothing really bad is going to happen, because he can't fight as Adam. And if he Hulks Out, well then it's basically the "I Win" moment, so all tension is lost. With him there, the plot always has to bend itself around justifying why he hasn't whipped out the sword yet, and that will get pretty cliche, like it did in the cartoon. And once he does whip it out (giggity), well that's the climax of the story isn't it? So, I don't really have an issue with shifting the focus.

Though the series IS about He-Man, and his loss and how it's impacted things, so again, I guess it's down to his wording if it was a lie or just a specific omission of details.

 

[Hawki]

oh, he actually said that phrase? I mean he was quoted? Or is that just what people interpreted? If he did say that, then yeah, that's definitely him lying to redirect social media. Still, I don't really care? He-Man himself was never a really interesting character on his own? He was the muscle to get things done. I'm fine with him being this Big Deal, but from the sidelines, more in his impact on the world, than his direct actions.

Because frankly, if his Prince Adam, you know nothing really bad is going to happen, because he can't fight as Adam. And if he Hulks Out, well then it's basically the "I Win" moment, so all tension is lost. With him there, the plot always has to bend itself around justifying why he hasn't whipped out the sword yet, and that will get pretty cliche, like it did in the cartoon. And once he does whip it out (giggity), well that's the climax of the story isn't it? So, I don't really have an issue with shifting the focus.

Though the series IS about He-Man, and his loss and how it's impacted things, so again, I guess it's down to his wording if it was a lie or just a specific omission of details.

I've seen the actual tweets, or rather, screenshots of them. Basically, someone said that (paraphrased) "He-Man is barely in it, and Teela's the main protagonist," and Smith said (paraphrased) "that isn't true."

I can't comment on the show's quality or lack of it (really, my experience with He-Man is limited to playing with a friend's toys once, and reading a children's novel way back in the 90s), but that Smith lied is indisputable, as far as I can tell.

 

[happyninja42]

I've seen the actual tweets, or rather, screenshots of them. Basically, someone said that (paraphrased) "He-Man is barely in it, and Teela's the main protagonist," and Smith said (paraphrased) "that isn't true."

I can't comment on the show's quality or lack of it (really, my experience with He-Man is limited to playing with a friend's toys once, and reading a children's novel way back in the 90s), but that Smith lied is indisputable, as far as I can tell.

I would say that He-Man is in every episode, because he is (that I can recall). yeah it's flashbacks, but in a runtime of 25 minutes, even those flashbacks add up. I do agree that Teela is the protagonist. Though paraphrasing does kind of defeat the purpose of trying to provide the actual quotes Though I really don't care either way. While I loved He-Man as a kid, I'm comfortable enough to not really give a shit if they change things. He's in it, it's about him, for this part, it's centered on Teela, though that can easily change with the next season since Adam is around and alive. I mean it's clearly setting up for a conflict resolution between them, and a entire paradigm shift to their world to try and fix what's broken. The easiest way to reflect that in dramatic tension between characters is to have a lot of time devoted to them working out their shit, and Adam being more pro-active to fix things. So yeah, this prologue being mostly about Teela, *shrugs* doesn't ruffle my jimmies at all.

 

[Dalisclock]

Having finished the show thus far, It held my interest. It's interesting how it seems to draw from mythology and more traditional fantasy narratives, with the hero(and the villian) dying, the magic sword being shattered and the world dying along with it. To get it back, everyone has to get back together(allies and enemies) got to both Heaven and Hell, or their in-universe equivalent (I guess) and eventually fix the cosmic keystone that keeps the planet that forms the core of the universe from dying(which would be bad). And it works well enough, especially with the characters getting their own character arcs so I kind of get a feel for who these characters are(including the floating comic relief imp dude).

I will admit that killing both the hero and the villian at the beginning was probably the most interesting plot point, because it forced everyone to deal with the fallout from that event and then try to figure out what they were doing with their lives afterwards and even though Adam comes back from....Heaven, I guess, it gives the show some dramatic chops instead of just dudes fighting each other over magic toys.

 

[happyninja42]

Having finished the show thus far, It held my interest. It's interesting how it seems to draw from mythology and more traditional fantasy narratives, with the hero(and the villian) dying, the magic sword being shattered and the world dying along with it. To get it back, everyone has to get back together(allies and enemies) got to both Heaven and Hell, or their in-universe equivalent (I guess) and eventually fix the cosmic keystone that keeps the planet that forms the core of the universe from dying(which would be bad). And it works well enough, especially with the characters getting their own character arcs so I kind of get a feel for who these characters are(including the floating comic relief imp dude).

I will admit that killing both the hero and the villian at the beginning was probably the most interesting plot point, because it forced everyone to deal with the fallout from that event and then try to figure out what they were doing with their lives afterwards and even though Adam comes back from....Heaven, I guess, it gives the show some dramatic chops instead of just dudes fighting each other over magic toys.

Yeah, I suspect, since they introduced the split blade thing (i totally forgot they made a version of the power sword that did that), I suspect it's going to be a form they can switch to when they need to team up as a power duo.

I wonder if they're going to impose some kind of limit to He-Man now, since Adam has lost his connection to the positive plane. Like he can only shift for a certain amount of time a day, so he will have to start getting involved AS Adam more, and use He-Man as a last resort thing.