Lifting Masks = Back to Getting Down With The Sickness

[Baffle]

I was having a look through a bullshit "science" site.

Not only does it suggest ivermectin is the best covid treatment imaginable, but it performs an analysis of all the studies. Funnily enough, all the positive studies are fine, but all the studies finding it ineffective or worse for covid patients are terrible quality papers full of flaws; citations for this analysis are places like Reddit, and random websites.

Yeah, but where else are you going to get a rope worm pet? They've only got rabbits and stuff at Pets at Home.Think about your kid's face at Christmas when you uncoil an impossibly long rope worm from her fireplace stocking.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

But... but we're supposed to LOVE and SYMPATHIZE FOR these people, no matter HOW stupid and HOW dangerous to the rest of us they are! Elsewise WE'RE EVIL!

 

[Dalisclock]

God moves in mysterious ways. And sometimes really fucking obvious ways, too.

Anyone who doesn't think God would inflict suffering for.....well, because any reason, skipped the old testament.

 

[thebobmaster]

Anyone who doesn't think God would inflict suffering for.....well, because any reason, skipped the old testament.

TBF, Jesus's sacrifice was supposed to be basically a mea culpa for the Old Testament, wiping the slate clean, so not factoring in the Old Testament is actually somewhat reasonable.

Now, the Book of Revelations...that's a whole nother story.

 

[Kwak]

I was having a look through a bullshit "science" site.

Not only does it suggest ivermectin is the best covid treatment imaginable, but it performs an analysis of all the studies. Funnily enough, all the positive studies are fine, but all the studies finding it ineffective or worse for covid patients are terrible quality papers full of flaws; citations for this analysis are places like Reddit, and random websites.

Any opinion on this?

https://www.scivisionpub.com/pdfs/us-covid19-vaccines-proven-to-cause-more-harm-than-good-based-on-pivotal-clinical-trial-data-analyzed-using-the-proper-scientific--1811.pdf

US COVID-19 Vaccines Proven to Cause More Harm than Good Based on Pivotal Clinical Trial Data Analyzed Using the Proper Scientific Endpoint, “All Cause Severe Morbidity” Classen Immunotherapies, J. Bart Classen, MD* Trends in Internal Medicine

The journal seems like a real thing, but its full name is CURRENT Trends in Internal Medicine, so I wonder if this paper is legitimate.
(I mean, I'm sure it isn't, but I'm wondering if it's actually been published by someone or if it's entirely self-promoted by some crank.)

ETA - Actual publisher is scivision pub, a predatory journal.
And Classen is a known anti-vaccer

 

[Agema]

Any opinion on this?

https://www.scivisionpub.com/pdfs/us-covid19-vaccines-proven-to-cause-more-harm-than-good-based-on-pivotal-clinical-trial-data-analyzed-using-the-proper-scientific--1811.pdf

I know you said it was fraudulent, but let's kill it for good. Okay, let's start at the top.

The journal
This journal has no track record: indeed this is the first article of the first volume of the first issue of what appears to be brand new journal. There is no website and no record of its staff: editors, etc. which is utterly unacceptable as there is no transparency or way to judge reputation. It is not part of the popular and respected "Trends..." series of review journals run by Cell Press, and is potentially mimicking them, which is not a good sign. The publishing group (scivision) is known to house predatory journals, which is extremely bad. So it has absolutely no credibility whatsoever as a reputable journal, and my conclusion is that it is almost certainly fraudulent.

The author
A quick search tells me that J. Bart Classen has appropriate qualifications and a track record in the field, but that track record involves polarised views believed poorly supported or untrue. He has not published for about 10 years - or at least, not in journals sufficiently reputable to be found on mainstream databases such as PubMed - and his publishing record has been poor for much longer. "Classen Immunotherapies", the company he is affiliated with, appears to be little more than a name without a website and no significant function, this is also not good. This indicates he should be regarded as an author of questionable expertise and reliability.

The title
The "proper scientific end-point" is a value statement rather than a fact, and I do not think a paper that had been through a thorough reviewing and editing process would be able to use such a tendentious claim in a title.

References
I wouldn't normally go here just yet, but I may as well. There are a mere 14 references for this paper, which is ludicrously few. Three of them are not even scientific/medical articles (e.g. one is a legal report, one a newspaper report), three are the trial data he is re-analysing. Five of the remaining eight are other pieces by the same author, which is far too high a reliance on one's own work even if they were in reputable journals (and most aren't). My conclusion is that this article is grotesquely undersupported to the point of complete failure.

The text
Okay, there's too much here wrong to go through in detail. But major flaws I can see just from flicking through:
1) biased value statements, such as "true scientists know..."
2) statements of fact and opinion that absolutely require supporting citations do not, e.g.: "Vaccines have been promoted and widely utilized under the false claim they have been shown to improve health." No citations. You cannot make these sorts of claims without justification, and this paper keeps doing so.
3) Inadequate statistical analysis

But the biggie:
4) The author is either ignorant or deceptive by confusing the terms "serious" and "severe" to make the case the vaccines are dangerous. There are indeed a lot more adverse reactions (severe or otherwise) after vaccine than placebo - but you would obviously expect that, as vaccines are known to cause side effects (soreness at the injection site, fever, etc.) However, a "severe" condition is not the same as a medically serious condition, e.g. a severe headache is just a bad headache: take two paracetamol and have a lie down, you'll be fine in a while. If this is understood, the whole main body and thrust of the paper becomes worthless.

5) I could go into the crazy woo-woo in the discussion, but really, what's the point?

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

On the upside, perhaps taking enough parasite killer would eventually tackle the chronic brain infestation of far right/right wing media personalities and influencers. At least tapeworm don't have offshore bank accounts directly and indirectly profiting off the suffering and death of their hosts.

People Are Eating Horse Paste To Fight COVID. This Doctor And His Group Are A Big Reason Why.

The Front Line Covid Critical Care Alliance has been boosting ivermectin, new reporting shows, and gaining a large following online.

www.huffpost.com

There’s a YouTube video called “Ivermectin Horse Paste” that was published in January of this year and now has nearly 160,000 views. In it, a woman who goes by Self Sufficient Momma demonstrates how to portion out horse paste in order to make it a suitable dose for humans, depending on weight.

“I’m going to be adding in slides from the Front Line Covid Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC),” she tells her audience. “So, they’ve done a lot of trials and have data on the people that they’ve tested ivermectin on.” An official FLCCC slide fills the screen, outlining treatment protocols.

Mixed in among blueberry mini muffin and potato clam chowder recipes are a variety of original videos by Self Sufficient Momma that show an intense study of ivermectin — with one breaking down the differences between all the horse paste brands — as well as a close watch of the FLCCC, name-checking them as her primary source.

In recent months, untold numbers of Americans have ingested ivermectin after seeing it hyped by the likes of Joe Rogan, Laura Ingraham, Tucker Carlson, and Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) with the false hope it would treat or prevent COVID-19. The drug is primarily known for deworming animals, and there is little medical support that a pill form for humans works on treating anything but parasites, which the coronavirus is not. In the process, people have wreaked havoc on their intestinal tracts — you don’t want to know — and worse, gained a false sense of confidence as the pandemic numbers once again crest and intensive care beds in several states fill up.

This didn’t happen overnight: A HuffPost review of social media channels and YouTube reveals that the FLCCC played a central and previously unreported role in this infodemic. Though other groups have become instrumental in promoting ivermectin, “it ultimately began with the FLCCC,” said San Francisco-based ER Dr. Graham Walker, who has treated COVID-19 patients since the beginning of the pandemic and has closely watched the growth of ivermectin misinformation
Users in Facebook groups with thousands of members like “IVERMECTIN MD TEAM” will post about updates to the FLCCC protocol, or ask if the group has made any statements to verify new ivermectin information, according to screenshots reviewed by HuffPost. The groups are largely used to share tips for how to procure ivermectin, often referring people to SpeakWithAnMD.com, a telemedicine platform propped up by right-wing, anti-vax group America’s Frontline Doctors.

That group’s role appears incidental to many experts. “I never associated America’s Frontline Doctors with ivermectin specifically. I’ve always thought of them as a fringe, anti-mask, pro-Trump group with anti-vax rhetoric versus actual medical advice,” said Walker. “The FLCCC introduced ivermectin to the world as a potential cure for COVID and has also promoted it heavily.”

But somewhere along the way, the group’s quest to make the human version of an anti-parasite medication the standard of care for COVID merged with the anti-vaccine crusade, with many people flocking to their local tractor supply store in lieu of getting vaccinated, and leading to dangerous side effects.

Forming An Alliance
In the very early days of COVID, months before ivermectin entered the picture, Dr. Paul Marik, Dr. Pierre Kory, Dr. G. Umberto Meduri, Dr. Joseph Varon and Dr. Jose Iglesias — all critical care specialists with various concentrations — came together to swap ideas about how to tackle this unknown virus. Their first major hypothesis was that corticosteroids would reduce mortality in severe COVID patients.

This was in no small part thanks to Meduri, who helped create the alliance. He’s “the guru of corticosteroids in lung disease,” as Dr. Eric Osgood, a New Jersey-based hospitalist and former member of the group, put it. That’s when they formulated and distributed their first hospital protocol called MATH+, initially treating patients hospitalized with severe COVID-19 cases with a combination of the steroid methylprednisolone and other drugs and supplements. This went against the conventional wisdom at the time that steroids would do more harm than good in treating a virus. Osgood caught wind of the MATH+ protocol, and began using it at his hospital before the FDA approval, witnessing a noticeable slowdown in mortalities.

And after the RECOVERY trial, a large U.K. patient study released in June 2020, showed the tangible benefits of steroids for COVID-19, the protocol was greenlighted for official use in the U.S. This early vindication of the group’s work served as encouragement in its abilities to be adaptable and find new ways to treat COVID as the pandemic rapidly unfolded.
“When I came out and I told the world that corticosteroids were critical to save lives, I got crushed for that,” Kory told HuffPost Friday in a phone interview. “Until the RECOVERY trial came out and it became the standard of care worldwide overnight.”
The original FLCCC goal was to find treatments that worked until vaccines were widely available. In October 2020, the doctors took note of a number of small, successful trials using ivermectin pills to treat and prevent COVID, though the data were considered low-quality in the wider medical community. They jumped at what they saw as an opportunity to stem the pandemic, soon adding ivermectin to the MATH+ protocol, as well as to their new prevention protocol called I-MASK+.

The horseplay began when people started hearing buzz about ivermectin in late 2020, but were largely unable to get a doctor’s prescription, since it wasn’t approved for use to treat or prevent COVID. Ivermectin was originally introduced in 1981 primarily to treat parasites in livestock and pets, and by 1988, it was improved to treat river blindness in humans. But now that people couldn’t get their paws on the pills, they turned to the next best thing: ivermectin in the form of paste for horses.
But what should be obvious — that livestock medicine is not safe for human consumption — has been ignored by people desperate to find a vaccine alternative for preventing COVID. As a result, the CDC was forced to issue an alert on Aug. 26 about a spike in poison control calls, and warning that taking ivermectin for large animals can be “highly concentrated and result in overdoses when used by humans.”

Overuse of human ivermectin comes with hazards of its own, especially taking an improper dose and without close supervision of a physician. The CDC warns that improper use of the drug can lead to nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, hypotension, decreased consciousness, confusion, hallucinations, seizures, coma and death.

In January 2021, the National Institutes of Health changed its guidance on ivermectin for COVID treatment from “against” to “neither for nor against” after Marik and Kory, along with World Health Organization consultant Dr. Andrew Hill, presented their data to the NIH Treatment Guidelines Panel. That same month, Kory, along with his FLCCC founders and a handful of other doctors, released a study that they thought would finally convince the CDC and other major health organizations that ivermectin was indeed the miracle Kory claimed it was.

It was set to be published in Frontiers, an open-access platform for peer-reviewed scientific journals. But after investigating the study’s integrity, Frontiers announced on March 2 that it was rejecting the article because of “a series of strong, unsupported claims based on studies with insufficient statistical significance, and at times, without the use of control groups.” Meanwhile, vaccines were more and more accessible in the U.S. with each passing day, and the FLCCC had still not updated its protocols to include vaccination.

-continued-

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

‘Miraculous Impact’
Kory had gained fame among anti-vaccine activists after a Dec. 8, 2020, hearing for the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs where he testified about the use of ivermectin for COVID, saying, “We have a solution to this crisis. There is a drug that is proving to be of miraculous impact.”

A clip of his testimony racked up millions of views on C-SPAN’s YouTube channel, and was subsequently taken down nearly two months later for what the video site called “COVID-19 misinformation.” That led Johnson, the senator from Wisconsin who has publicly supported using ivermectin to treat COVID, to write a Wall Street Journal op-ed called “YouTube Cancels the US Senate,” using Kory as his first example and adding fuel to the conspiratorial fire.
Kory, for his part, admitted his testimony was not helpful to the cause at the time, but then added, “I still stand by it, and I think history will prove it to be [true].”

Despite being invited by Johnson, a staunch Republican and the Senate’s most vocal anti-vaxxer, Kory, who was at the time the Medical Director at the University of Wisconsin’s Trauma and Life Support Center, told HuffPost he has traditionally been more of a Democrat — though the pandemic has cast doubt on everything, including his political views.
Kory’s and the FLCCC’s stars began to rise after that. Controversial figures like Bret Weinstein, a popular anti-vaccine podcast host, and tech giant Steve Kirsch, who has put many of his millions toward clinical trials of various medicines over the years and has spread misinformation about the COVID vaccine causing infertility, were taking note of their work and promoting ivermectin themselves.

Shortly before the Senate hearing, Osgood himself referenced ivermectin on the “Michael Brooks Show” podcast, mentioning his belief that it would prove effective in COVID treatment and referring to the FLCCC doctors as “folk heroes.” The next day, he received a call from Kory, in which he reportedly told Osgood that the jury was still out on ivermectin, but from what he could tell in the small studies he’d reviewed so far, he felt confident in its ability to ameliorate the most severe effects of COVID. And, coupled with its low price tag, it was worth continuing to push it.

Osgood called himself and Kory “kindred spirits” and, after their first conversation, felt, “If we found out in a year that this worked, that would be quite a tragedy. You don’t want to leave people to die when you could’ve done something that was very safe.” So he joined up with the alliance and began prescribing ivermectin to his patients who were hospitalized with severe COVID cases, knowing it could be months until a vaccine was widely available.
In his mind, once every American had access to the jab, ivermectin would take a backseat in the FLCCC guidance. He was wrong.

Horse Paste Goes Mainstream
It didn’t take long before scattered news reports indicated people were indeed taking the horse paste to both treat and prevent COVID. In a February local news segment, a Midland, Texas, woman describes how she learned about ivermectin back in October from the internet, and she and her family had been taking it — the animal form — ever since. Though she wasn’t taking the tablets for humans, as the FLCCC recommends, in a way she was taking it as intended: as a bridge to the vaccine. “I just got my first vaccine shot a few days ago, so no more horse paste!” she told the reporter.

Though ivermectin has been used and prescribed by some doctors for the better part of a year now, the FDA noticed a recent uptick in the amount of prescriptions being filled by SpeakWithAnMD.com and others, as well as the animal version flying off shelves at livestock and tractor supply stores. The agency issued a tweet on Aug. 21, writing, “You are not a horse. You are not a cow. Seriously, y’all. Stop it.” linking to its own post reiterating its earlier guidance that ivermectin in any form is not approved for use to treat and prevent COVID.

With more than 10 percent of adults 18 and older hesitant to get the vaccine, according to US Census Bureau estimates, online misinformation can fill a dangerous trust gap.
Kory claims to be distraught that his organization’s protocols have been misconstrued — ”I am literally deteriorating watching what’s happening,” he told HuffPost. But he but feels the FDA’s failure to approve the use of ivermectin for COVID is what’s driving the hysteria, not the FLCCC protocols.

“We don’t need their effing approval to prescribe during COVID. It’s called off-label use,” he said. “And now by saying this, you’re injecting the fucking idea of taking animal ivermectin into the population? Now more people are going to run at it. And I’m sorry, but I am not responsible for this fucking insanity. And I can’t correct it.”
But any survey of anti-vaccination communities online clearly show Americans started using horse paste to create their own COVID treatments long before the recent FDA tweet — and with intellectual support from the FLCCC.
And as the delta variant continues to infect the nation, even Kory admits that ivermectin (the human kind) is no match for it, tweeting on Aug. 9, “I have experienced and am getting reports from FLCCC Alliance members that Delta variant patients crashing into ICU’s ... are not showing responses to MATH+. We are demoralized and frightened. Early treatment is CRITICAL. Every household should take I-MASK+ upon first symptoms.”

Yet despite ivermectin’s reported weakness against the delta variant, the FLCCC doctors continue to recommend it.
After Julie Smith’s husband was hospitalized with COVID-19 in July, she came across Ivermectin on the internet and connected with Dr. Fred Wagshul, another founding member of the FLCCC, who wrote a prescription for her husband, Jeffrey. When the hospital refused to fill it, Smith filed a lawsuit, and just this week, a Cincinnati judge ordered the hospital to administer ivermectin to her husband despite its lack of approval. Wagshul alleges this delay is a “conspiracy” by the FDA and CDC to provide cover for vaccines.

Merging With The Anti-Vaxxers
Meanwhile, the FLCCC has still refused to take a firm pro-vaccine position.
“Most of what we feel — and especially me — is that the data on vaccines is moving so fast and it’s non-transparent,” Kory said. “I just really don’t know what to say about these vaccines. I just don’t feel comfortable with the kind of data that we’re getting.” Kory himself took ivermectin for eight or so months preemptively, recently caught and recovered from the delta variant, and will not be getting vaccinated because he believes he now has “natural immunity.”
Vaccines, of course, remain the best available precaution against severe COVID outcomes. “At this point we literally have mountains of data on the ultimate outcome and endpoint of clinical trials: death,” said Walker. “The vaccines prevent people from getting COVID sick enough to die from. I don’t know a harder, more binary outcome than dead-or-not.”

But nearly a year after ivermectin’s introduction into the COVID conversation in the U.S., and with vaccines now readily available to all who seek them, doctors like Osgood and Walker see it as unconscionable that the FLCCC hasn’t changed course. That was the final straw for Osgood, leading to his departure from the organization in late August.
“[Ivermectin] shouldn’t have been promoted as a vaccine alternative or a miracle cure,” he said. “People are drinking sheep drench! If that’s not a call to use your clout and influence to say, ‘Enough is enough! Get your shots!’ then I just don’t know.”
And people like Caleb Wallace, a former state coordinator of right-wing anti-vaxx West Texas Minutemen, are learning the hard way that unlike the vaccine, ivermectin will not save you. Wallace, who was not vaccinated, began experiencing COVID symptoms on July 26. He self-medicated with a cocktail of Vitamin C, zinc, aspirin and ivermectin. On Aug. 28 he died. He was 30 years old.

 

[Agema]

article

Oh, the hypocrisy of those wankers to tell everyone to take an unproven drug, and then question vaccines because the standard of evidence isn't good enough. At least some of them realised the FLCCC Alliance was getting insane and quit it at that point.

 

[Seanchaidh]

With all this talk of ivermectin as a COVID therapeutic, has anyone considered parasitic worms as a COVID therapeutic? Might work better for whatever reason.

 

[Dalisclock]

With all this talk of ivermectin as a COVID therapeutic, has anyone considered parasitic worms as a COVID therapeutic? Might work better for whatever reason.

I've heard of people intentially giving themselves tapeworms to help them with dieting but I don't know how much of that is real and how much is urban/internet legends.

I'm waiting for Leeches to come back, to suck the Covid out. Which I'm sure will have NOTHING to do with Certain media personalities having stock in said companies.

 

[Seanchaidh]

I've heard of people intentially giving themselves tapeworms to help them with dieting but I don't know how much of that is real and how much is urban/internet legends.

I feel like bloodletting might be a less unpleasant way of doing that, but I can't say I have experience with either.

 

[Dalisclock]

Oh, the hypocrisy of those wankers to tell everyone to take an unproven drug, and then question vaccines because the standard of evidence isn't good enough. At least some of them realised the FLCCC Alliance was getting insane and quit it at that point.

People who think the moon landing was faked posit a conspiracy that would require far more time and effort to successfully pull off then actual landing on the moon invovled(such as building a rocket, the Saturn V, which has only one useful purpose and that's to send a crewed spacecraft to the moon and back). Flat Earthers(the real ones anyway, not the people pretending to be ones as trolling) come up with some ridiculous explanations for how simple mechanisms of light, day, night, time zones, weather and pretty much everything fucking works rather than just concede the earth is a rotating sphere. Seriously, ask a Flat Earther to explain how a sunset works and you'll get an express ticket to crazy town.

It's kinda amazing how many people will spend incredible time and effort to reinvent the damn wheel rather then use the perfectly useful ones we actually have.

 

[Agema]

I've heard of people intentially giving themselves tapeworms to help them with dieting but I don't know how much of that is real and how much is urban/internet legends.

No, people did really try it - but not many. It's not a good idea: apart from the risk of malnutrition and GI problems, they lay eggs, and the eggs can get out of the GI tract and give the person cysts in all sorts of unpleasant places round their body. Also be aware that in some countries it is potentially illegal.

I'm waiting for Leeches to come back, to suck the Covid out. Which I'm sure will have NOTHING to do with Certain media personalities having stock in said companies.

Well, there are actually medical leeches, but their use is very specialised. I don't know the exact details, but it's to do with increasing blood flow to the target region (due to various chemicals released in their bite, most notably anticoagulants).

There are medical maggots, too: they eat necrotic tissue but not healthy tissue, so they can help clean infected wounds. Also very niche use.

 

[happyninja42]

Well, there are actually medical leeches, but their use is very specialised. I don't know the exact details, but it's to do with increasing blood flow to the target region (due to various chemicals released in their bite, most notably anticoagulants).

I recall hearing they were often used for limb reattachment therapy. As their method of extracting the blood, can help to stimulate the bloodflow across the damaged tissue of the surgery point. Apparently improve the likelihood of healthy regrowth? So you basically put them on the site of the attachment, not sure which side...maybe across the whole thing(?), and let them suck away. I would assume probably on the side with the "dead" limb. If the issue is making sure the lost part has adequate bloodflow to stay healthy and regrow it's tissues, it would make sense to put it on that side. Dilate those capillaries and veins to make sure more blood is coming in from the healthy side of things.

That makes the most sense to me, but that's pure speculation from armchair surgeon.

 

[Baffle]

I feel like bloodletting might be a less unpleasant way of doing that, but I can't say I have experience with either.

I have, but only accidentally. Ended up on antibiotics. Big Pharma got it all stitched up.

 

[Agema]

I recall hearing they were often used for limb reattachment therapy. As their method of extracting the blood, can help to stimulate the bloodflow across the damaged tissue of the surgery point. Apparently improve the likelihood of healthy regrowth? So you basically put them on the site of the attachment, not sure which side...maybe across the whole thing(?), and let them suck away. I would assume probably on the side with the "dead" limb. If the issue is making sure the lost part has adequate bloodflow to stay healthy and regrow it's tissues, it would make sense to put it on that side. Dilate those capillaries and veins to make sure more blood is coming in from the healthy side of things.

That makes the most sense to me, but that's pure speculation from armchair surgeon.

Yeah, that all sounds very sensible. Given I'm a pharmacologist, all I really think about with leeches are hirudins (derived from leeches), which are the second-line IV anticoagulants after heparin.

I have, but only accidentally. Ended up on antibiotics. Big Pharma got it all stitched up.

Not quite: very little money in antibiotics. That's part of why hardly anyone worked on new ones for about 30 years. Then MRSA reminded everyone antiobiotic resistance was a really, really, really bad thing, and started getting it moving again.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

I've heard of people intentially giving themselves tapeworms to help them with dieting but I don't know how much of that is real and how much is urban/internet legends.

I'm waiting for Leeches to come back, to suck the Covid out. Which I'm sure will have NOTHING to do with Certain media personalities having stock in said companies.

I think it was said, but I want to provide the receipts.

 

[Dalisclock]

Well, there are actually medical leeches, but their use is very specialised. I don't know the exact details, but it's to do with increasing blood flow to the target region (due to various chemicals released in their bite, most notably anticoagulants).

There are medical maggots, too: they eat necrotic tissue but not healthy tissue, so they can help clean infected wounds. Also very niche use.

That much I knew but Ivermectin has a legit, specialized use as well. The problem, obviously, being people using them for completely unrelated and harmful reasons.

Chemotherapy can save your life in the right circumstances, but that doesn't mean you should use it just because.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

That much I knew but Ivermectin has a legit, specialized use as well. The problem, obviously, being people using them for completely unrelated and harmful reasons.

Chemotherapy can save your life in the right circumstances, but that doesn't mean you should use it just because.

Well the biggest problem is they're self medicating with animal grade and dose Ivermectin. Supposedly there is enough going on with IVM that warrants study for use outside it's intended use as an anti-parasitic, but definitely with human grade IVM in controlled environments.