They are trying to cancel Dave Chappell

[Eacaraxe]

I mean, it ain't easy to come down on Chappelle in a world in which Caitlyn Jenner, a trans woman who is a former Olympic athlete who once graced Wheaties boxes, who literally committed vehicular manslaughter and walked and has some of the most ridiculous and awful political beliefs imaginable, whose only contemporary claim to fame was sharing screen time with an ass on one of the worst reality TV shows ever aired, is branded the face of trans rights or some ridiculous shit by a slavering media, while...

Laverne Cox, a black trans woman who always has been and still is a trans rights activist, gets maybe some media attention when politically convenient, because she was in a Netflix TV show where a pretty blond white chick co-starred to the breasticles of Donna from That '70s Show. And when she does get media attention, it's banking on her (considerably, I freely admit) sex appeal. Usually, by folks who yarble out the other side of their mouths, "fetishizing black bodies isn't cool".

Because "stunning and brave" ain't just a meme, y'all.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

I think transgressive and edgy material can be very funny, but not really when it actually poses a risk of contributing to a meaningfully harmful narrative or actively engages in humiliation. I think Chris Morris's series Jam is funny, but Jam isn't attacking anyone except the audience.

Interesting that you'd characterise this as a "publicity stunt" by "trans activists" when what actually happened is that an enormously wealthy comedian went onto his very own Netflix special which cost more to produce than a whole series of television and therefore paid him considerable dividends, and delivered some bottom of the barrel retrograde groaners couched in a deeply non-self aware narrative about how he'd treated a trans person really badly, and trans people were understandably upset that this kind of shit was considered acceptable enough to be given financial backing by one of the world's biggest video streaming platforms.

Nah. It may be hard to understand in your plastic bubble but most people like actually living life and not participating in some kind of noble society where everyone has to make a long winded, carefully curated speech every time they talk. Most people can't stand your kind of neo-victorian lifestyle.

 

[thebobmaster]

I mean, it ain't easy to come down on Chappelle in a world in which Caitlyn Jenner, a trans woman who is a former Olympic athlete who once graced Wheaties boxes, who literally committed vehicular manslaughter and walked and has some of the most ridiculous and awful political beliefs imaginable, whose only contemporary claim to fame was sharing screen time with an ass on one of the worst reality TV shows ever aired, is branded the face of trans rights or some ridiculous shit by a slavering media, while...

Laverne Cox, a black trans woman who always has been and still is a trans rights activist, gets maybe some media attention when politically convenient, because she was in a Netflix TV show where a pretty blond white chick co-starred to the breasticles of Donna from That '70s Show. And when she does get media attention, it's banking on her (considerably, I freely admit) sex appeal. Usually, by folks who yarble out the other side of their mouths, "fetishizing black bodies isn't cool".

Because "stunning and brave" ain't just a meme, y'all.

I agree with this. We need other people to be trans icons. Whatever happened to Chaz Bono? I don't particularly recall him doing anything wrong, he just kind of faded away from public consciousness when Caitlyn Jenner became a thing.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Getting back on track.

Netflix's support of Dave Chappelle is setting a dangerous precedent. Here's why.

As Netflix chief Ted Sarandos doubles down on his defense of "The Closer," the streaming service has fired an employee who leaked data to the media.

amp.usatoday.com

Here's some shady crap Netflix is involved in.

Netflix fires employee for leaking 'sensitive' material' as Dave Chapelle controversy swirls | Fox Business

The sensitive material was related to the new controversial standup special from Dave Chappelle that has many employees outraged.

www.foxbusiness.com

Well it looks like they changed their mind.

Netflix employee who was suspended after Dave Chappelle criticism is reinstated

A software engineer who was suspended by Netflix after she criticized Dave Chappelle’s Netflix standup special for what she claimed were anti-transgender jokes in a viral tweet and after attending a quarterly meeting meant for higher-ups said she was reinstated this week.

www.foxbusiness.com

And if that's the case, why did you bother even firing her in the first place Netflix?

Wrong order dude.

The employee was suspended following breaking into an executive meeting and possibly leaking some stuff. They then got re-instated and within a day leaked more stuff and organised the walk out at which point Netflix fired them.

Maybe testing the waters to see if they could get away with it without raising too much of a media stink.

No Brawlman (or to give him the benefit of the doubt his source) got it in the wrong order.

Jesus Christ dude, read the room.

1) Dude set up the room
2) sometimes going against the sentiment in the room can be a good thing so I dunno why you'd be pushing the ide

If it's support and friendship only on terms suitable to him, is it really support and friendship?

So how did hiding that body with your work friend go?

There's a limit to how far people will go to support others is my point of that comment to be clear. You can tell some-one it's a bad idea and they shouldn't do it but be there to support them for the fallout of it or congratulate them and say you were wrong if they succeed. Supporting a person doesn't mean you have to be in absolute agreement with them and I'll say for quite certain me and my friends disagree on a fair bit but that doesn't stop us being friends. Hell disagreeing with one another means we learn different points of views and can see things different and often see the bigger picture.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Considering, a good amount of their trans employees walked out of the Netflix office. That backfired immensely. This will bite them in the butt at some point, which it already has to a degree.

Walk out in the 25h of October I think and so far there's 1,000 people saying they will do a partial walk out. Which for all we know they might just walk

Will it though? I doubt that. They'll live this down fine. At this very moment there's probably suits planning to increase their diversity output to counter any sort of hot water they're in over this Dave Chappelle thing. They'll make an animated series with a trans protagonist or whatever.

Also, nice to see from some of the comments here that the 'I can't be racist I have black friends/am attracted to black people' excuse is still alive and well amongst the transphobic. If you say you agree with J.K. Rowling on this topic and that you're team TERF with a completely straight face, I don't care how many trans friends you claim to have, you're transphobic.

They'll probably just renew new She-Ra for another season or give it an animated film. That would probably kill a lot of hostility. Better to go with something they know will work other than another disaster like Q-force.

There would be some that would be willing to take their place, it can't last forever. Them doing the same thing over and over again will bare consequences. Because at some point enough is enough, and there are people with standards. I prefer more realistic outlook. Now Netflix is smart, which they aren't, they would do better not jumping off the handle like that. No one is immune criticism.

Well it depends on the market share of the audience who would leave due to the shows going more than the creators. If you can lose a show and keep the audience Netflix won't particularly care. So lets say you get rid of (and this is being used as a stupid example) Q-force but you know most of the audience will stay anyway because they also watch Stranger Things and your data tells you Q-Force was the minor reason for them to be there but they talk a lot about Stranger Things then the executive will go "We can lose Q-Force it won't cost us much".

I'd argue removing Dave Chappelle's special would also have a bad effect on Netflix as it would show creators "if people get offended over your content we'll throw you under the bus and you don't have the freedom to create controversial stuff on Netflix dime anymore" which as some creators were going to Netflix to get away from the standards of regular not premium TV it would harm Netflix too. (Which is part of the argument used to justify not removing cuties from Netflix)

If people want to criticise Dave Chappelle go ahead but the calls fro his stuff to be removed and no-one to work with him and no-one to work with netflix unless it happens. That isn't criticism, that goes far beyond criticism.

Comedian Hannah Gadsby has some words for Netflix's bumbling CEO. The last part is especially relevant. "I definitely didn't cross a line because you just told the world there isn't one."

I am willing to bet money that a significant chunk of Chappelle's defenders on this lose their shit every time a queer person facetiously remarks on, "the straights." Can't have this conversation without talking about the hypocrisy of sanctimonious people who think everyone else's personal lives are their business.

Problem is we're in a constant stat of Poe law these days more and more. Like if it was a known comedy account saying it then it would be a bit different to some-one on twitter whose timeline is nothing but yelling about "The evil Breeders need to die" or something like that. There has very much being a thing where people use "I was only joking" as a defence but weirdly the was a push by people using it as a defence a lot now that "It doesn't matter if it was a joke it was harmful". So I dunno it's really become a case of seemingly people with very flexible morality just doing whatever they have to so they can "Win".

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

This shows how misplaced all the whining about "cancel culture" is. Chappelle's career has not suffered one bit while the only people who are losing jobs are the people complaining about his jokes being transphobic.

Yet........ It has not suffered yet......... that's the point here. Some people seem to want him to face major repercussions for jokes. Other people are going basically "Dude told jokes and you chose to watch and get upset so badly you want him gone? Really? Really? You went out of your way to watch the special just to get offended and can't stand Netflix having something on it you don't explicitly approve of?"

This is like a the inverse version of Mary Whitehouse getting pissed because a theatre put on a play with a gay sex scene in it and trying to go after the theatre for it. Or her infamous attempts to get Doctor Who changed or cancelled because she said it was too violent at one point.

This seems to be people upset Netflix isn't appealing specifically to their tastes in all it's stuff and it comes off as hugely entitled to expect that. You can argue "Well we'd like more shows for our demographic" but getting upset about not being catered to by everything just comes off as I dunno somewhat petty in the face of the fact that apparently Netflix has paid for stuff for said demographic that no other company would buy. It would be like me complaining about that Amazon doesn't give me enough Sci-Fi shows when they've really made or paid to have made quite a few and even went out of their way to pay to remaster Farscape.

Contrapoints said it best.

"Look, we don't mind you making jokes about trans people, it's just that you're not very good at it."

I love edgy humor. Always have, always will. Nobody should be safe from comedy.

But it has to be GOOD comedy. It has to focus on being funny first. The thing is that now the right and especially the alt right think that "N!ggers, amirite?" constitutes great comedy and that if you don't laugh you're a humorless SJW.

And Contrapoints is being sane and oddly enough has previously had people try to cancel her multiple times over Trans comments when she is Trans but she didn't tow the right line on them.

There's a line between "You're not very good at it" and "Your content shouldn't be allowed on the service and no-one should work with you again and if it doesn't happened no-one should work with the network ever again". I'm not sure how people aren't able to realise that line.

Because if there's no joke, or even if there is a joke but you are punching down instead of up, it's not comedy. It's bullying. There is definitely a spot for edgy humor. One of my favorite comedians, Christopher Titus, has basically no filter, and I'm sure quite a few people could and do find him offensive. However, I feel that he manages to keep from offending me because one of his biggest targets is...himself and his family. A lot of his humor is basically about how fucked up his life is, so when he veers into insulting others, or making fun of them, he's shown that he's not above doing the same to himself. Punching up, not down.

The issue is wit punching direction, whose standards do you use for who is up and who is down.

Is Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel punching up at a white person because their privileged or punching down on some-one in huge levels of economic disadvantage? Is a Millionaire comedian punching up at the establishment for mocking traffic wardens as little hitlers for their actions or is it a Millionaire comedian punching down at a probably just above minimum wage worker trying to do their job?

 

[Dreiko]

Chapelle already canceled himself and fucked off to africa like a decade ago if not longer, they can't do anything to him now that he's back. It's amusing to see em try though.

I caught bits of his special randomly cause family was watching it and his line was that he doesn't have an issue with trans people but with white people, and he's annoyed at white people trying to weasel away from his critique by bringing up their trans identity. I dunno how much merit it has but it's an interesting position either way.

 

[Adam Jensen]

If it's support and friendship only on terms suitable to him, is it really support and friendship?

Support and friendship is never unconditional. It is always on terms suitable to the provider of support and friendship. Why the fuck would the trans community be exempt from this?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Support and friendship is never unconditional. It is always on terms suitable to the provider of support and friendship. Why the fuck would the trans community be exempt from this?

There's an old Chris Rock joke about "the difference between Black people and n*****s". He regrets making it because it gave racist people a license to call Black people n*****s if said Black person wasn't "respectable" enough

Trans folks are asking for the same consideration.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

There's an old Chris Rock joke about "the difference between Black people and n*****s". He regrets making it because it gave racist people a license to call Black people n*****s if said Black person wasn't "respectable" enough

Trans folks are asking for the same consideration.

To be seen as a giant monolith and not individuals thus you can't make a distinction between the good and the bad in a community fairly easily and have to take any claims of a person being a member of said community as actually a thing rather than go "That asshole doesn't represent us" ?

I dunno I wouldn't want that as a consideration for any group I could be considered part of. I doubt most Trans people want Jessica Yaniv seen as anywhere near representative of them.

*Leans in*
*Whispers* People will still still use the same kind of insults towards group even if you don't give them explicit permission to do so

 

[Baffle]

Of course, one could say that Dave is "punching down" on trans people just by the fact that he's rich and famous and is therefore in a higher status than the majority of the people he's making jokes about, but by that perspective the only person it would be ok for him to joke about would be Jeff Bezos.

Or a number of much wealthier transphobes, like Gervais or Rowling.

 

[Agema]

Support and friendship is never unconditional. It is always on terms suitable to the provider of support and friendship. Why the fuck would the trans community be exempt from this?

Support and friendship are indeed rarely unconditional. Nevertheless, there is a big difference between unconditional and "My way or the highway".

Or a number of much wealthier transphobes, like Gervais or Rowling.

There are a lot of other forms of power that Dave Chappelle can use to punch up at that aren't wealth.

Of course, some comedians don't do a lot of punching in any direction and still manage to be very funny.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Support and friendship is never unconditional. It is always on terms suitable to the provider of support and friendship. Why the fuck would the trans community be exempt from this?

Those terms in Chappelle's case in regards to his trans friends apparently being 'We're friends, but on stage I will completely unironically say I support a hate group that thinks you shouldn't exist.'

And speaking out about that is the trans community wanting special privilege, right? This shows there's a resentment among many people that they have to show respect to a community that previously they were told they could just ignore or insult. And it being told to them by that same community seemingly pisses them off even more.

 

[Dreiko]

There's an old Chris Rock joke about "the difference between Black people and n*****s". He regrets making it because it gave racist people a license to call Black people n*****s if said Black person wasn't "respectable" enough

Trans folks are asking for the same consideration.

This reminds me of a lot of boondocks episodes actually, it's a pretty common joke. They even had MLK calling people it in one episode.


Also I think the idea is that it's an intra-community criticism where, while it may give ammunition to the racists as an unwanted side-effect, it also highlights a very real problem too. The nuance is figuring out if that work is worth the permission given to racists.


I figure, racists are racists anyway, so whether they have permission or not doesn't change anything, so nothing of substance is lost. Now we just know about more of them than we otherwise would.

 

[Agema]

I figure, racists are racists anyway, so whether they have permission or not doesn't change anything, so nothing of substance is lost. Now we just know about more of them than we otherwise would.

I think relatively few people are determinedly racist. I suspect a lot of people are more sort a spectrum of "don't knows", who mostly just have low awareness of the issues and thus might often be racist without any particular intent or conviction. It would be more fruitful to provide such people with guidance how not be racist rather than just write them off as racist.

 

[Baffle]

Of course, some comedians don't do a lot of punching in any direction and still manage to be very funny.

I was about to say they don't make them like Norman Wisdom any more, but I looked him up and it turns out he kept molesting his female co-stars, so I guess they do make them like Norman Wisdom still.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Here is the full story in total context. I don't really see what is wrong with it but I'm Cis so WTF do I know. Watch it yourself and judge if it is "cancel" worthy. As far as I can tell Dave is just telling a story about a trans friend of his and despite it being told with humor, it seems like he really was friends with this person.

 

[Cheetodust]

There's an old Chris Rock joke about "the difference between Black people and n*****s". He regrets making it because it gave racist people a license to call Black people n*****s if said Black person wasn't "respectable" enough

Trans folks are asking for the same consideration.

Didn't Dave Chappelle have similar issues with his Black White Supremacist bit? And the Rick James bit, with people shouting "fuck yo couch n*****." at him. It bothered him that people were using his work as an excuse to say the n word. I might be misremembering but I thought that was a part of the issue he had with Chappelle's show back in the day.

 

[Buyetyen]

Here is the full story in total context. I don't really see what is wrong with it but I'm Cis so WTF do I know. Watch it yourself and judge if it is "cancel" worthy. As far as I can tell Dave is just telling a story about a trans friend of his and despite it being told with humor, it seems like he really was friends with this person.

"I can't be racist. I have one black friend!"

 

[BrawlMan]

Didn't Dave Chappelle have similar issues with his Black White Supremacist bit? And the Rick James bit, with people shouting "fuck yo couch n*****." at him. It bothered him that people were using his work as an excuse to say the n word. I might be misremembering but I thought that was a part of the issue he had with Chappelle's show back in the day.

You are 100% correct. It's why he stopped doing Chapelle Show after the 2nd season. He didn't want the attention of racists and misaimed fandom who watch the show for more ammunition or the wrong reasons. The Boondocks had a similar problem, but with addition of wannabe ghetto/gangsta or blacks embracing foolishness and ignorance.

This reminds me of a lot of boondocks episodes actually, it's a pretty common joke. They even had MLK calling people it in one episode.

The only difference is Arron Mcgruder made an actual fucking point.

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